Is the price of entry really $2k?!?
03-26-14, 08:34 PM
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Hmm, really nice carbon and alu bikes were readily available by the late 80's. With lightweight dt shifters and 7 spd cassettes, and before skyrocketing component prices, 18-20 lb. builds were readily available for $2K and often far less. Carbon and ultegra only set you back $2K or so. Titanium was a bit more expensive, but lower cost litespeed showed up on the scene rather quickly after merlin established itself as a benchmark.
So even in the mid to late 80's, a 23 lb. road bike was never considered light. A steel bike with campy had to weigh under 22 lbs. to be considered relatively lightweight, and that standard was very quickly eclipsed by the alu, carbon and ti bikes which became affordable well before 1990.
So even in the mid to late 80's, a 23 lb. road bike was never considered light. A steel bike with campy had to weigh under 22 lbs. to be considered relatively lightweight, and that standard was very quickly eclipsed by the alu, carbon and ti bikes which became affordable well before 1990.
I had a Vitus Carbon 9 during that era in the 80's with full campy record, GL330's, clement criteria setas, and a Regina alu freewheel and that bike was right at 20lbs. It cost a lot more than 2 grand. In the early 90's, I had a Kestral with DA Sti and it went 17 lbs with titanium bits and pieces everywhere with tubulars and it cost close to $5k.
Ti affordable before 1990? I don't think Litespeed was remotely widely available until mid 1990, not before 1990. There were very, very few titanium frames prior to 1990.
A Columbus SL/SP framed Campy Nuovo Record equipped bike was 22-23 pounds depending on the size and wheels. A decked out boron Klein was one of the lightest bike I ever saw in the mid 80's and it was just 20 lbs. My circa 1973 Masi weighs about 23 lbs.
So, I remember when 23 lbs was light.
03-26-14, 08:47 PM
#127
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Name those readily available carbon frames from the 80's with complete builds under $2k. There were two carbon frames that I remember. I wouldn't describe them as readily available.
I had a Vitus Carbon 9 during that era in the 80's with full campy record, GL330's, clement criteria setas, and a Regina alu freewheel and that bike was right at 20lbs. It cost a lot more than 2 grand. In the early 90's, I had a Kestral with DA Sti and it went 17 lbs with titanium bits and pieces everywhere with tubulars and it cost close to $5k.
Ti affordable before 1990? I don't think Litespeed was remotely widely available until mid 1990, not before 1990. There were very, very few titanium frames prior to 1990.
A Columbus SL/SP framed Campy Nuovo Record equipped bike was 22-23 pounds depending on the size and wheels. A decked out boron Klein was one of the lightest bike I ever saw in the mid 80's and it was just 20 lbs. My circa 1973 Masi weighs about 23 lbs.
So, I remember when 23 lbs was light.
I had a Vitus Carbon 9 during that era in the 80's with full campy record, GL330's, clement criteria setas, and a Regina alu freewheel and that bike was right at 20lbs. It cost a lot more than 2 grand. In the early 90's, I had a Kestral with DA Sti and it went 17 lbs with titanium bits and pieces everywhere with tubulars and it cost close to $5k.
Ti affordable before 1990? I don't think Litespeed was remotely widely available until mid 1990, not before 1990. There were very, very few titanium frames prior to 1990.
A Columbus SL/SP framed Campy Nuovo Record equipped bike was 22-23 pounds depending on the size and wheels. A decked out boron Klein was one of the lightest bike I ever saw in the mid 80's and it was just 20 lbs. My circa 1973 Masi weighs about 23 lbs.
So, I remember when 23 lbs was light.
03-26-14, 08:49 PM
#128
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Trek 2300 was under $2000 in 1988 I think.
Only $1400 and 21.3 lbs by 1993.
Only $1400 and 21.3 lbs by 1993.
03-26-14, 08:50 PM
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22 lbs was a light road bike in the 80's
Besides Greg Lemond and other top professional riders, I saw few if any carbon frames amongst amateur racers in the 80's. I rode aluminum and carbon since the early 80's and was always the odd duck in the pack.
I do not remember seeing a single carbon frame at the 86 world road championships when I went to watch.
The first carbon frame that I remember seeing under a pro was in France in 86. Lemond. The pros all rode steel. Lemond brought us carbon frames, tribars, and clipless pedals.
Besides Greg Lemond and other top professional riders, I saw few if any carbon frames amongst amateur racers in the 80's. I rode aluminum and carbon since the early 80's and was always the odd duck in the pack.
I do not remember seeing a single carbon frame at the 86 world road championships when I went to watch.
The first carbon frame that I remember seeing under a pro was in France in 86. Lemond. The pros all rode steel. Lemond brought us carbon frames, tribars, and clipless pedals.
03-26-14, 08:52 PM
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03-26-14, 08:54 PM
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Name those readily available carbon frames from the 80's with complete builds under $2k. There were two carbon frames that I remember. I wouldn't describe them as readily available.
I had a Vitus Carbon 9 during that era in the 80's with full campy record, GL330's, clement criteria setas, and a Regina alu freewheel and that bike was right at 20lbs. It cost a lot more than 2 grand. In the early 90's, I had a Kestral with DA Sti and it went 17 lbs with titanium bits and pieces everywhere with tubulars and it cost close to $5k.
Ti affordable before 1990? I don't think Litespeed was remotely widely available until mid 1990, not before 1990. There were very, very few titanium frames prior to 1990.
A Columbus SL/SP framed Campy Nuovo Record equipped bike was 22-23 pounds depending on the size and wheels. A decked out boron Klein was one of the lightest bike I ever saw in the mid 80's and it was just 20 lbs. My circa 1973 Masi weighs about 23 lbs.
So, I remember when 23 lbs was light.
I had a Vitus Carbon 9 during that era in the 80's with full campy record, GL330's, clement criteria setas, and a Regina alu freewheel and that bike was right at 20lbs. It cost a lot more than 2 grand. In the early 90's, I had a Kestral with DA Sti and it went 17 lbs with titanium bits and pieces everywhere with tubulars and it cost close to $5k.
Ti affordable before 1990? I don't think Litespeed was remotely widely available until mid 1990, not before 1990. There were very, very few titanium frames prior to 1990.
A Columbus SL/SP framed Campy Nuovo Record equipped bike was 22-23 pounds depending on the size and wheels. A decked out boron Klein was one of the lightest bike I ever saw in the mid 80's and it was just 20 lbs. My circa 1973 Masi weighs about 23 lbs.
So, I remember when 23 lbs was light.
03-26-14, 08:59 PM
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Regarding the current entry price of $2k, I was informed by a member of a club that I recently joined that good bikes now cost more than $20k. He also told me he was taking out a racing license. I can see sparks coming off that $20,000 bike in his first Crit.
03-27-14, 01:06 AM
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That's because the euro pros were notoriously conservative and did not like to change for the sake of change. They were used to campy and friction shifting and steel frames. Can you believe it? Pros winning races with friction shifting on 'heavy' steel frames?!?
Lemond the american was far less conservative. The '89 tour was epic. One of the greatest sports events of all time.
Lemond the american was far less conservative. The '89 tour was epic. One of the greatest sports events of all time.
22 lbs was a light road bike in the 80's
Besides Greg Lemond and other top professional riders, I saw few if any carbon frames amongst amateur racers in the 80's. I rode aluminum and carbon since the early 80's and was always the odd duck in the pack.
I do not remember seeing a single carbon frame at the 86 world road championships when I went to watch.
The first carbon frame that I remember seeing under a pro was in France in 86. Lemond. The pros all rode steel. Lemond brought us carbon frames, tribars, and clipless pedals.
Besides Greg Lemond and other top professional riders, I saw few if any carbon frames amongst amateur racers in the 80's. I rode aluminum and carbon since the early 80's and was always the odd duck in the pack.
I do not remember seeing a single carbon frame at the 86 world road championships when I went to watch.
The first carbon frame that I remember seeing under a pro was in France in 86. Lemond. The pros all rode steel. Lemond brought us carbon frames, tribars, and clipless pedals.
03-27-14, 01:23 AM
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Why so defensive and accusatory?
In any event lester has already answered your question. Trek started producing carbon/alu bikes as well as full carbon frames in the late '80's and I recall prices dropping drastically just a few years thereafter.
A friend bought a used trek carbon/alu bonded bike for well under a grand in 90 or 91. It weighed 20 or 21 lbs. The trek 2100 had 105 if I recall and the 2300 ultegra, when those kits were far less expensive.
Even $900 stumpjumpers were around 26.5 lbs back then, and bridgestone's mb zip was around 24 lbs, so a 23 lb road bike was not very light at all.
I mentioned earlier that specialized was selling steel bikes (sirrus and allez?) for around $600 and they were about 24 lbs and change.
A 23 lb road bike, I repeat, was not at all exceptionally light by the late 80's and certainly not by the early 90's.
edit: a good portion of my post seems to have disappeared. Anyway, I was going to mention that a 23 lb bike MIGHT have been considered light when alu, ti and carbon frames were completely absent from the US market.
Then again, even before the exotics, a lugged steel frame/fork usually weighed under 6 lbs and with a campy group and tubular wheels, a 21 lb bike was easily achieved. So, even in the early 80's a 23 lb bike wasn't that light.
Anyone who makes this claim is just fooling themselves.
edit 2: bridgestone's rb1 in '89 weighed under 23 lbs and cost far, far less than $1K. I think it was around $700. Their radac line weighed under 20 lbs. So, by the late 80's it wasn't difficult at all to find sub 23 lb bikes at very affordable prices.
edit 3: trek was producing A LOT of sub 23 lb bikes in the late 80's, such as the trek 2000 series carbon/alu line, as well as their 1000 series full alu bikes. Not to mention their 5000 which had a 3 lb frame.
Between trek and bridgestone alone, they probably produced at least 10 models which were south of 23 lbs, in steel, alu, carbon and carbon/alu.
Sub 23 bikes were not rare at all by the late 80's and it was not difficult to build up 18 lb bikes with dura ace or record and tubular wheels.
In any event lester has already answered your question. Trek started producing carbon/alu bikes as well as full carbon frames in the late '80's and I recall prices dropping drastically just a few years thereafter.
A friend bought a used trek carbon/alu bonded bike for well under a grand in 90 or 91. It weighed 20 or 21 lbs. The trek 2100 had 105 if I recall and the 2300 ultegra, when those kits were far less expensive.
Even $900 stumpjumpers were around 26.5 lbs back then, and bridgestone's mb zip was around 24 lbs, so a 23 lb road bike was not very light at all.
I mentioned earlier that specialized was selling steel bikes (sirrus and allez?) for around $600 and they were about 24 lbs and change.
A 23 lb road bike, I repeat, was not at all exceptionally light by the late 80's and certainly not by the early 90's.
edit: a good portion of my post seems to have disappeared. Anyway, I was going to mention that a 23 lb bike MIGHT have been considered light when alu, ti and carbon frames were completely absent from the US market.
Then again, even before the exotics, a lugged steel frame/fork usually weighed under 6 lbs and with a campy group and tubular wheels, a 21 lb bike was easily achieved. So, even in the early 80's a 23 lb bike wasn't that light.
Anyone who makes this claim is just fooling themselves.
edit 2: bridgestone's rb1 in '89 weighed under 23 lbs and cost far, far less than $1K. I think it was around $700. Their radac line weighed under 20 lbs. So, by the late 80's it wasn't difficult at all to find sub 23 lb bikes at very affordable prices.
edit 3: trek was producing A LOT of sub 23 lb bikes in the late 80's, such as the trek 2000 series carbon/alu line, as well as their 1000 series full alu bikes. Not to mention their 5000 which had a 3 lb frame.
Between trek and bridgestone alone, they probably produced at least 10 models which were south of 23 lbs, in steel, alu, carbon and carbon/alu.
Sub 23 bikes were not rare at all by the late 80's and it was not difficult to build up 18 lb bikes with dura ace or record and tubular wheels.
Name those readily available carbon frames from the 80's with complete builds under $2k. There were two carbon frames that I remember. I wouldn't describe them as readily available.
I had a Vitus Carbon 9 during that era in the 80's with full campy record, GL330's, clement criteria setas, and a Regina alu freewheel and that bike was right at 20lbs. It cost a lot more than 2 grand. In the early 90's, I had a Kestral with DA Sti and it went 17 lbs with titanium bits and pieces everywhere with tubulars and it cost close to $5k.
Ti affordable before 1990? I don't think Litespeed was remotely widely available until mid 1990, not before 1990. There were very, very few titanium frames prior to 1990.
If you are referring to an era when alu frames were completely absent from the US market, then perhaps then a 23 lb road bike could be considered light. But probably not even then, when a lugged steel frame/fork plus tubular wheels and a campy group probably weighed closer to 21 lbs than to 23.
A Columbus SL/SP framed Campy Nuovo Record equipped bike was 22-23 pounds depending on the size and wheels. A decked out boron Klein was one of the lightest bike I ever saw in the mid 80's and it was just 20 lbs. My circa 1973 Masi weighs about 23 lbs.
Therefore, there were a lot of affordable sub $2K carbon/alu hybrid bikes that weighed far less than 23 lbs being produced by trek and then sub 20 lb bikes once oclv bikes started rolling off the line with some costing less than $2K.
These bikes were pre STI and suspension so it wasn't that difficult to build up lightweight bikes back then, with ti, alu, and carbon bikes being introduced w/out the encumbrance of dual pivot, sti, rock shox and so on.
So, I repeat, no, a 23 lb road bike was not considered especially light by the late 80's. I was subscribing to multiple road and off road magazines at the time, and collecting catalogs and followed the industry pretty closely back then.
Anyone who claims that a 23 lb road bike was light between 88-92 is fooling themselves.
So, I remember when 23 lbs was light.
I had a Vitus Carbon 9 during that era in the 80's with full campy record, GL330's, clement criteria setas, and a Regina alu freewheel and that bike was right at 20lbs. It cost a lot more than 2 grand. In the early 90's, I had a Kestral with DA Sti and it went 17 lbs with titanium bits and pieces everywhere with tubulars and it cost close to $5k.
Ti affordable before 1990? I don't think Litespeed was remotely widely available until mid 1990, not before 1990. There were very, very few titanium frames prior to 1990.
If you are referring to an era when alu frames were completely absent from the US market, then perhaps then a 23 lb road bike could be considered light. But probably not even then, when a lugged steel frame/fork plus tubular wheels and a campy group probably weighed closer to 21 lbs than to 23.
A Columbus SL/SP framed Campy Nuovo Record equipped bike was 22-23 pounds depending on the size and wheels. A decked out boron Klein was one of the lightest bike I ever saw in the mid 80's and it was just 20 lbs. My circa 1973 Masi weighs about 23 lbs.
Therefore, there were a lot of affordable sub $2K carbon/alu hybrid bikes that weighed far less than 23 lbs being produced by trek and then sub 20 lb bikes once oclv bikes started rolling off the line with some costing less than $2K.
These bikes were pre STI and suspension so it wasn't that difficult to build up lightweight bikes back then, with ti, alu, and carbon bikes being introduced w/out the encumbrance of dual pivot, sti, rock shox and so on.
So, I repeat, no, a 23 lb road bike was not considered especially light by the late 80's. I was subscribing to multiple road and off road magazines at the time, and collecting catalogs and followed the industry pretty closely back then.
Anyone who claims that a 23 lb road bike was light between 88-92 is fooling themselves.
So, I remember when 23 lbs was light.
Last edited by roadandmountain; 03-27-14 at 01:59 AM.
