thrasher9905

So I really want to put together a nice road bike frame. I already know what to buy tubewise, but what will I need tool wise? Can you get by without a jig? What is an inexpensive torch solution? I will be working with lugs, so how should I practice? Is brazing kind of like soldering with a torch? I can't find too much info on how to braze lugs on the Internet. Can you guys help me out?

dsaul

If you look at the "sticky" on this forum titled "how to build a lugged steel frame", you might find the answers to some of your questions.

Doug Fattic 

Thrasher, building a bicycle frame is a fairly complex project. How difficult it will be depends on your past experiences and future goals (do you want to make more or just do one for fun?). Whatever your ambitions making a frame is going to be somewhat expensive. It is in my self interest to say this but taking a frame building class will give you the fastest way to get good results starting out. That way you can avoid expensive motivation killing mistakes while figuring out what to do. And if you don’t have the ability or sustainable interest to continue, you can still leave with a quality frame with the instructors help. Using proper equipment allows one to see what is needed for future projects. The reality is most students that take my class would not have done well on their own starting out. There are exceptions of course.

To answer your specific questions, I have written quite a bit recently on a torch set up recently. It is just a couple of subject threads below yours.

You don’t need an expensive fixture to start but you do need to somehow hold the tubes in the correct relationship to each other to match your frame design. There are a lot of pictures of creative solutions online. In addition those tubes need to be in line with each other and hold the wheels in the same plane. It is easy to get them out of whack with poor brazing and/or holding methods. Most often some sort of flat surface is used for alignment (like a table saw surface or kitchen counter top). Expect to spend a fair amount on basic tooling besides your torch set up like taps and reamers and a set of files. I would start by buying or making a set of wood blocks for holding tubes.

Doug Fattic
Niles, Michigan

thrasher9905

Thank you Doug, I was looking into framebuilding classes. They seem interesting and keeping your work from the class is definitely a plus. I will continue to save my money and hopefully by the time I graduate high school, I should have the funds to pay for a class. Could you reccomend a good school on the west coast? (specifically California)

mrv 

howdy
i was where you were last year. come to think of it, i'm still there! nuts. well, got a kid in college and one more going in a year, so .... it's just nice first world problems to have.

when i asked your question last year, it generated this thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/framebuild...costs-ugh.html
it's loaded with massive amounts of great info from Doug and others here on the boards.

and this recent helpful regulator thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/framebuild...r-s-setup.html

final comments that you probably should NOT follow:
- if you find yourself completely unable to keep a torch away from a bike frame, and you don't have the cash to build bikes, you might get the idea to do something like buy a cheap frame set on CraigsList, then torch-r it into something slight different (hopefully better).
i picked up a beat up Nishiki for $25 and added DT braze-ons, rack bosses, second set of bottle BOs. You can see it HERE.

I would recommend you heed the advice from the experts and don't do this. Although I've had a good time doing it, and the lower costs keep my marriage together!
If you do all the reading, you'll find the cheapest option that lets you do anything is a MAPP gas torch from the hardware store. It'll flow silver, but not brass/bronze. Sil-brazing is OK for a things like bottle cages, shifter bosses. Probably OK for rack bosses, but if I could do bronze, I'd go that way. Definitely NOT brake bosses. And MAPP/air will never give enough heat for a safe lug, I think.


That's my two cents. Worth at least half of it.
Cheers!

thrasher9905

Thank you MRV

Scooper

United Bicycle Institute (UBI) offers framebuilding classes in both Ashland and Portland, Oregon. Ashland is on Interstate 5 just across the California-Oregon border.

Doug Fattic 

There has been a lot of new frame building classes offered in the last few years. Some of them are okay and others not so much. It is pretty common that someone takes more than one class and I often get those that want another go around. So I have a pretty good idea of what others are doing. Just like in music or sports, not everyone has the inherited ability to braze and file well even with proper instruction. And neither is everyone a good teacher even though they may know how to make a decent frame. Shop carefully! My advice is don’t be geographically limited. If you want to be good, find the best place to learn and make that your goal. Think of the teachers you have now and you know some are much better than others. Some can inspire, some know how to adjust their methods to your particular personality and some have a lot more experience in building and teaching so you can “get it” easier. There is a pretty wide range and it is a bit rude to point out those that aren’t the best.

Back in the 70’s when I wanted to learn how to build bicycles, we had to go to Europe to learn (unless we took Albert Eisentraut’s class). One of the things I’ve been most thankful for was that I throughly shopped around when I had time off during the summers because I was a teacher. I systematically visited about every frame builder I could in England. Looking back I can see what an advantage it was to get a great start. Eventually of course with enough trail and error smart people can figure it out themselves. But there is a competitive advantage to beginning right because learning mistakes can damage a reputation.

If I was searching again I would start by looking at a teacher’s experiences in both building and teaching. I would want to see a lot of both. Some class’s purpose is simply participation with the instructor dong the hard parts so the participants can have stress free fun. Others teach the skills so they have a solid foundation to make more. So which is best depends on future plans. And if the goal is to make more I would want to know what kind of class materials were given out to help me remember what i’m likely to forget when I try again. I’ve seen some skimpy ones. I would want a low student to teacher ratio and find out who the assistants might be. Class length varies as does how many days a week and hours in a day they are held. It is obvious that the more time spent in class (and shop time available after class hours) the more one can learn. Some classes specialize in tig and others brazing. Looking at students class frames (even in pictures) can be instructive. I would expect to see clean shorelines (no blobs peeking out beyond a lug) and decently filed joints. And if any painting was a possibility. YMMV.

When calculating the cost of taking a class, add up all the costs to get a fair value comparison. Tuition, materials (sometimes included in tuition), transportation and how much it costs to stay. Those secondary costs can vary widely. But no matter what the cost or location I would want to go to the best (although high cost does not necessarily mean the best).

Doug Fattic
Niles, Michigan

olivieri_velo

I attended their TIG welded frame class at their Ashland place, walked out of there with an awesome looking cro-mo frame, and an unforgettable experience! I also stayed at the cycle hostel. I have only heard, not from personal experience, that the staff from their Ashland campus, in contrast to the Portland campus, is generally friendlier and more attentive.