All good bikes out of stock?!?
07-25-20, 10:17 PM
#26
Clark W. Griswold
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I take it you own a bike shop or work in one.
Some brands sell directly online only (Canyon). Some sell through a dealer network, like cars, (a kind of antiquated, middle-age remnant IMHO), some sell both directly online and via dealers (probably the smarter option).
I understand that competition is fierce and margins are slim. But I do not believe that you have zero margin. Otherwise the business model would not work. Brands need dealers to sell and so they must give them some margin. The more high-end the article, the higher the margin. For luxury watches the dealer margin is close to 50%. Now, if a manufacturer makes a direct sale, it makes a large profit (minus the expenses of dealing with the end customer), whereas it must split the profit with the dealer for a dealer sale. (In exchange of not having to keep inventory and deal with end customers). If demand is high and supply is low, like right now, I would not expect a discount. That's why I was surprised by @xroadcharlie mentioning discounts. I am aware that the LBS in the example I cited is giving a discount because it's a 2019 model and in small size (regular size L is sold out).
Still, I don't think it would be unreasonable to offer a small discount, say, for paying cash rather than credit, even if I just walked into the store for the first (and maybe last) time.
Some brands sell directly online only (Canyon). Some sell through a dealer network, like cars, (a kind of antiquated, middle-age remnant IMHO), some sell both directly online and via dealers (probably the smarter option).
I understand that competition is fierce and margins are slim. But I do not believe that you have zero margin. Otherwise the business model would not work. Brands need dealers to sell and so they must give them some margin. The more high-end the article, the higher the margin. For luxury watches the dealer margin is close to 50%. Now, if a manufacturer makes a direct sale, it makes a large profit (minus the expenses of dealing with the end customer), whereas it must split the profit with the dealer for a dealer sale. (In exchange of not having to keep inventory and deal with end customers). If demand is high and supply is low, like right now, I would not expect a discount. That's why I was surprised by @xroadcharlie mentioning discounts. I am aware that the LBS in the example I cited is giving a discount because it's a 2019 model and in small size (regular size L is sold out).
Still, I don't think it would be unreasonable to offer a small discount, say, for paying cash rather than credit, even if I just walked into the store for the first (and maybe last) time.
As stated in my previous post I didn't say we had zero margin. I said they were slim and with everything going into a business the profits are low on bicycles. Parts are higher margin and labor is a bit higher still but again have to keep the lights on and everyone needs to get paid. We aren't like that classic used car salesman stereotype (at least I strive to avoid that) nor are we just making arbitrary numbers. Most of the numbers we use are given to us by the distributor or manufacturers to ensure fair practices.
We aren't selling high end watches. Though I did for a time (Suunto and Garmin) but bikes are a bit different and while yes both can be high end the margins aren't that extremely high on most bikes certainly they do get a little bigger but generally those bike ticket bikes take more time and work to sell to someone your average person looking at an e-bike is going to spend 3-4k so getting someone on a higher end bike takes a little more working with them to ensure we are getting them the right bike.
07-25-20, 10:39 PM
#27
Senior Member
Yes I do work in a shop, quite proudly. Some people sit at a desk talking to the Bobs and filing TPS reports, some people work dead end jobs but I enjoy what I do.
As stated in my previous post I didn't say we had zero margin. I said they were slim and with everything going into a business the profits are low on bicycles. Parts are higher margin and labor is a bit higher still but again have to keep the lights on and everyone needs to get paid. We aren't like that classic used car salesman stereotype (at least I strive to avoid that) nor are we just making arbitrary numbers. Most of the numbers we use are given to us by the distributor or manufacturers to ensure fair practices.
We aren't selling high end watches. Though I did for a time (Suunto and Garmin) but bikes are a bit different and while yes both can be high end the margins aren't that extremely high on most bikes certainly they do get a little bigger but generally those bike ticket bikes take more time and work to sell to someone your average person looking at an e-bike is going to spend 3-4k so getting someone on a higher end bike takes a little more working with them to ensure we are getting them the right bike.
As stated in my previous post I didn't say we had zero margin. I said they were slim and with everything going into a business the profits are low on bicycles. Parts are higher margin and labor is a bit higher still but again have to keep the lights on and everyone needs to get paid. We aren't like that classic used car salesman stereotype (at least I strive to avoid that) nor are we just making arbitrary numbers. Most of the numbers we use are given to us by the distributor or manufacturers to ensure fair practices.
We aren't selling high end watches. Though I did for a time (Suunto and Garmin) but bikes are a bit different and while yes both can be high end the margins aren't that extremely high on most bikes certainly they do get a little bigger but generally those bike ticket bikes take more time and work to sell to someone your average person looking at an e-bike is going to spend 3-4k so getting someone on a higher end bike takes a little more working with them to ensure we are getting them the right bike.
I see my LBS as a relationship and buy parts from them when it makes sense to do so because they do good work on my bike and give me sound advice about routine maintenance and have done so for multiple years. I like having them around for tune-ups before I go out to an event as well.
I would have purchased my incoming bike from them but they don't deal in mid to high end road bikes unfortunately, but they'll be the place that slaps the contis on there for sure.
07-25-20, 11:54 PM
#28
Sunshine
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No, you should not expect to pay less than MSRP, and no, buying a bike is not the same as buying a car.
Bike stores see very little profit on bike sales. The money that they make, such as it is, comes from accessories and the service department.
"Such as it is": with very few exceptions, most bike store owners are lucky to make as much yearly as any of their highest-paid employees. Some don't, which is why bike store start-ups have about the same attrition rate as new restaurants.
Further proof: chain restaurants can be very successful, but the only nation-wide bike store chain (Performance Bikes) lasted about 10 years before it went under.
Bike stores see very little profit on bike sales. The money that they make, such as it is, comes from accessories and the service department.
"Such as it is": with very few exceptions, most bike store owners are lucky to make as much yearly as any of their highest-paid employees. Some don't, which is why bike store start-ups have about the same attrition rate as new restaurants.
Further proof: chain restaurants can be very successful, but the only nation-wide bike store chain (Performance Bikes) lasted about 10 years before it went under.
Also, Performance failed not because of their model or anything like that. You are using its closure as proof for somwthing that it isnt proof of.
Read about why Performance closed.
07-26-20, 02:24 AM
#29
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I don't know where you are but around here you can buy these generic rigid mountain/city bikes for <=$100 all day long:
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/bik...166062074.html
This one is $50. In general "women's" bikes tend to be a good deal on Craigslist for the very simple reason that most women have no problem riding a 'men' bike provided they fit, whereas most men will blanche when asked to carry their wives' handbags or carry a red umbrella, let alone be caught dead riding a 'girls' bike. So definitely keep an eye out for the 'girl' bikes. Secondly there is typically less wear and tear and ham-handed botch repairs on womens' bikes.
Ride that $50 girl bike while waiting for your perfect bike to come along.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/bik...166062074.html
This one is $50. In general "women's" bikes tend to be a good deal on Craigslist for the very simple reason that most women have no problem riding a 'men' bike provided they fit, whereas most men will blanche when asked to carry their wives' handbags or carry a red umbrella, let alone be caught dead riding a 'girls' bike. So definitely keep an eye out for the 'girl' bikes. Secondly there is typically less wear and tear and ham-handed botch repairs on womens' bikes.
Ride that $50 girl bike while waiting for your perfect bike to come along.
Last edited by icemilkcoffee; 07-26-20 at 02:30 AM.
07-26-20, 04:53 AM
#30
Junior Member
Even high end stuff is hard to get these days and if it is Italian - forget about it!
Hope all these new cyclists stick with it!
Hope all these new cyclists stick with it!
07-26-20, 07:25 AM
#31
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Yes I do work in a shop, quite proudly. Some people sit at a desk talking to the Bobs and filing TPS reports, some people work dead end jobs but I enjoy what I do.
As stated in my previous post I didn't say we had zero margin. I said they were slim and with everything going into a business the profits are low on bicycles. Parts are higher margin and labor is a bit higher still but again have to keep the lights on and everyone needs to get paid. We aren't like that classic used car salesman stereotype (at least I strive to avoid that) nor are we just making arbitrary numbers. Most of the numbers we use are given to us by the distributor or manufacturers to ensure fair practices.
We aren't selling high end watches. Though I did for a time (Suunto and Garmin) but bikes are a bit different and while yes both can be high end the margins aren't that extremely high on most bikes certainly they do get a little bigger but generally those bike ticket bikes take more time and work to sell to someone your average person looking at an e-bike is going to spend 3-4k so getting someone on a higher end bike takes a little more working with them to ensure we are getting them the right bike.
As stated in my previous post I didn't say we had zero margin. I said they were slim and with everything going into a business the profits are low on bicycles. Parts are higher margin and labor is a bit higher still but again have to keep the lights on and everyone needs to get paid. We aren't like that classic used car salesman stereotype (at least I strive to avoid that) nor are we just making arbitrary numbers. Most of the numbers we use are given to us by the distributor or manufacturers to ensure fair practices.
We aren't selling high end watches. Though I did for a time (Suunto and Garmin) but bikes are a bit different and while yes both can be high end the margins aren't that extremely high on most bikes certainly they do get a little bigger but generally those bike ticket bikes take more time and work to sell to someone your average person looking at an e-bike is going to spend 3-4k so getting someone on a higher end bike takes a little more working with them to ensure we are getting them the right bike.
But, you have to admit that if some guy walked into your shop in June 2019 to buy two bikes and accessories with a $3500 or higher budget, you would have gladly knocked off 10% and been ecstatic to have the business.
The reality is that the Rona has created a great business opportunity within your industry, but it will be relatively short lived. Take advantage of it while you can. Nothing wrong with that.
And by the way, Suunto and Garmin are not high end watches. The guy was referring to watches such as Rolex, Omega, IWC, Blancpain, Jaeger and the like.
07-26-20, 09:09 AM
#32
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07-26-20, 09:37 AM
#33
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The market has a way of automatically sorting itself out. Some individuals may be short term unhappy but I think the overall end result will be a plus for the bicycle industry and consumers.
There are probably one quadrillion bikes in private and corporate ownership in the USA which supports a robust industry so I'm confident that those who have a desire to ride a bicycle will be able to do so even if there is a short pause in supply. I understand the frustration, we are all in one degree or another frustrated but 5 years from now when this present situation is but a distant memory, many of us will still be riding our bikes and some of those that are looking in vain to purchase a bike bike today will have either a bike hanging unused in the shed or went back to the activity they were doing before this whole thing started,
In other words, for adults, riding bicycles is not for everyone but currently everyone wants one for whatever reason.
There are probably one quadrillion bikes in private and corporate ownership in the USA which supports a robust industry so I'm confident that those who have a desire to ride a bicycle will be able to do so even if there is a short pause in supply. I understand the frustration, we are all in one degree or another frustrated but 5 years from now when this present situation is but a distant memory, many of us will still be riding our bikes and some of those that are looking in vain to purchase a bike bike today will have either a bike hanging unused in the shed or went back to the activity they were doing before this whole thing started,
In other words, for adults, riding bicycles is not for everyone but currently everyone wants one for whatever reason.
07-26-20, 06:44 PM
#34
Clark W. Griswold
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I get your points, and nobody ever has to discount their products or services. And, right now I wouldn’t offer any discounts to customers in the bike business.
But, you have to admit that if some guy walked into your shop in June 2019 to buy two bikes and accessories with a $3500 or higher budget, you would have gladly knocked off 10% and been ecstatic to have the business.
The reality is that the Rona has created a great business opportunity within your industry, but it will be relatively short lived. Take advantage of it while you can. Nothing wrong with that.
And by the way, Suunto and Garmin are not high end watches. The guy was referring to watches such as Rolex, Omega, IWC, Blancpain, Jaeger and the like.
But, you have to admit that if some guy walked into your shop in June 2019 to buy two bikes and accessories with a $3500 or higher budget, you would have gladly knocked off 10% and been ecstatic to have the business.
The reality is that the Rona has created a great business opportunity within your industry, but it will be relatively short lived. Take advantage of it while you can. Nothing wrong with that.
And by the way, Suunto and Garmin are not high end watches. The guy was referring to watches such as Rolex, Omega, IWC, Blancpain, Jaeger and the like.
I see my LBS as a relationship and buy parts from them when it makes sense to do so because they do good work on my bike and give me sound advice about routine maintenance and have done so for multiple years. I like having them around for tune-ups before I go out to an event as well.
I would have purchased my incoming bike from them but they don't deal in mid to high end road bikes unfortunately, but they'll be the place that slaps the contis on there for sure.
I see my LBS as a relationship and buy parts from them when it makes sense to do so because they do good work on my bike and give me sound advice about routine maintenance and have done so for multiple years. I like having them around for tune-ups before I go out to an event as well.
I would have purchased my incoming bike from them but they don't deal in mid to high end road bikes unfortunately, but they'll be the place that slaps the contis on there for sure.
07-26-20, 07:01 PM
#35
Senior Member
Essentially they're a local Giant dealer that specializes in MTBs that sold me my low end road bike because they get a few so when I went to them and inquired about a road bike order but they referred me out to another shop. I'm fine with that.
07-26-20, 07:07 PM
#36
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Are you working on a delay?
It's been like this for a while now. I've seen multiple national and international news article about the shortage as well.
It's hard to fathom how this would be a surprise to anyone at this point.
What a dumb thread.
It's been like this for a while now. I've seen multiple national and international news article about the shortage as well.
It's hard to fathom how this would be a surprise to anyone at this point.
What a dumb thread.
07-26-20, 07:12 PM
#37
Clark W. Griswold
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Yeah not really a Giant fan. Meh bikes with some odd proprietary stuff on some of it. Luckily they found you a spot to get a bike at. I usually only have to turn people away for really low end stuff. Their bikes never really gelled with me. Though the 2021 TCR Advanced SL Frame isn't bad color wise and it is neat to see rim brakes (in an odd way)
07-26-20, 07:15 PM
#38
Senior Member
Yeah not really a Giant fan. Meh bikes with some odd proprietary stuff on some of it. Luckily they found you a spot to get a bike at. I usually only have to turn people away for really low end stuff. Their bikes never really gelled with me. Though the 2021 TCR Advanced SL Frame isn't bad color wise and it is neat to see rim brakes (in an odd way)
07-26-20, 07:27 PM
#39
Clark W. Griswold
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I remember going shopping for a suit for a wedding (because my Birthday Suit was too formal I guess) and the salesperson was really nice and helped me out quite a bit and was honest, hey I don't have your size and something that will work for what you need here is another shop and we chatted further and I said you know what I am going to buy something (a nice dress shirt I have gotten a good bit of mileage on) because I really liked the guy, he didn't B.S. or try to sell me something and just felt like a true genuine person and I did also like the shirt but if it weren't for that guy I wouldn't have done it.
07-27-20, 10:29 PM
#40
Senior Member
You know things are interesting when you see department store bikes on Craigslist, facebook marketplace, etc... for $100-$200 over retail. They are often marked "last one".
