Metieval

They are "better" for certain reasons.

My tool collection doesn't consist of 1 claw hammer. I've a framing hammer, a finish hammer, multiple mini sledge , different weights, multiple ball peens hammers different weights, a leather hammer, a dead blow hammer, a brass hammer, a plastic tip hammer.

But seriously why even own a hammer if I can simply smash things with a ratchet.

Bicycles are tools. Use the correct one for the job, not the one that is trending at the moment.

Most of us have compromised. Like the guy that tours once a year, but then rides his LHT (unloaded) the rest of the year. I personally would dislike riding an unloaded touring bike. I'd love to own and ride a Kona sultra LtD, if it was offered in a lighter version.
Same as with the niner air one 9 rigid, if it was slacked out a bit more.
Do we really need 12 speed cassettes and then do stupid stuff to fix the chain line issues? No we dont. Except we have an industry that creates a demand for 12 speeds.
My x7/x9 combo 2x10 was flawless, dependable and durable. Now Sram has issues! Not durable, not dependable, super flaky with cable tension. But it's the standard they push. So is 12 speed better. In some ways yes, in many ways it isn't. On a whole I don't think the better side of it out weighs the bad side of it. Not on a mtb anyways.
I've ridden all over CO rockies on a 32t 11-36, 1x10 hardtail. I was wanting a slacker hardtail years before the industry offered it. Now the industry pushes it. To the extreme even, now we just twiddle our thumbs until they come to their senses and find the middle ground. Some manufactures will, some never will.
Now they will try and push the 750 wheel size.

The 650b craze hit. They pushed the "it's better",but it wasn't good enough. So they made biggerc650b, until they got sluggish, so now its back to 29 and 2.4 /2.6. They yoyo.
And use shills like bike radar, bike rumor to push the new stuff regardless of it being good or bad.

99 out of 100 people buying bikes don't even know what they are buying outside of it have 2 wheels.

Kind of like your version of better. You thought it was one thing, then thought it was another thing.

Your "better", along with many other peoples version is fluid.

While some of us, don't see it that way.

Its the world we live in.

I want is my 1990s rigid flat bar fitness/hybrid. But with disc brakes, clearance for 29x 2.4. 20 -22 lbs. And a bit of a slack HA.

People buy Walmart bikes, then they don't ride them. Not very enjoyable, lots of energy spent to go nowhere. Apply the same thing to current hybrid/fitness bikes. If people on current hybrids road a high end hybrid, they'd probably ride a lot more than they do.

Well that was true 3.5 years ago.

The industry can't even push entry level budget bicycles right now. The industry is in trouble with this economy. They are sitting on heaps of bikes they cant move.
The people want electric with throttles, food delivered to them, and a weekly allowance.
It is "better" though...

unterhausen

You aren't going to find a pre-built bike with a Rohloff anywhere outside of Europe (maybe just Germany), I don't think. I don't know any shop that can afford to sit on a niche bike like that has almost a $2000 retail rear wheel that nobody wants.

The lbs I go to maybe has one road bike in stock. They used to sell plenty of Domaines, but they dropped trek and it was usually by special order. Gravel bikes, mountain bikes, hybrids, and the occasional commuter is what they mostly sell. They sell a custom build with a Rohloff once every few years.

I think a lot of people are unhappy about how monotonous most shops have become. Trek and Spesh have been buying up a lot of shops. But it's a low margin business in the best of times, and these are not good times for bike shops. They aren't going to take risks. They don't want to have dead inventory.

Rogerogeroge

OP complains that all he sees are drop bar bikes then laments that there are no touring bikes and fixies. Which clouds are you yelling at?

Get with the times. Bikepacking has supplanted touring.

Trek discontinued their track bike more than 15 years ago.

mstateglfr 

How do you know manufacturers are pushing a narrative and not listening to consumers?

Why do you speak of gravel bikes as if they are no longer around? You speak of them in the past like they are gone.

As for the Salsa bike, don't get political, just keep in surpressed, please. salsa changing the name has 0 impact on you.

Metieval

yea

Fixie is a different story , but if a person wants a SS. Find a pf30 or bb30 and use eccentric bb.

Way more frame choices, way better wheel choices.

Heck even cyclocross or Gravel frames for what ever tire clearance they want. And probly could be done for less money than the salsa storm chaser.

mstateglfr 

advertising exists as a tool to let people know that a company has the product that people want.

^ that is the simplest way to explain your view is flawed.

Maelochs

They aren't All drop bar road bikes ...

unterhausen

Don't most Salsas still come with adjustable dropouts? I always thought that pandering to fixed gear riders was annoying, but someone has to do it, I suppose. But it's the worst thing about my Salsa MTB.

Good news is that many adjustable dropouts have inserts for Rohloff.

Mackers

Yes he did restring.

You need to take a look at Elizabeth Cotten, she plays a righty stringed righthanded.

wheelreason

The Covid chip, I knew it!.... I guess you've missed the whole Ford/Chevy, Coke/Pepsi, 2 party thing...

wheelreason

First time I saw someone playing with the strings reversed, I almost gave up drugs...

PeteHski

So are you saying that the only reason that I ride a drop bar road bike with derailleurs is because of mainstream society and my lack of individuality? Well I would say it’s more because they are my strong preferences for a road bike and fortunately the mainstream market is in line with my preferences.

But you want a flat bar and IGH on your road bike? No problem, just realise that you are a niche customer. Those bikes are out there in the niche market.

Metieval

Back at you, my comment on the journeyman has 0 impact on you. It's always been a cheap entry level bike.

Apparently we can both comment on stuff we disagree with, Who knew.... I'll follow your fine example of commenting on stuff you disagree with, that has no impact on you. Brilliant
👏

mstateglfr 

the 0 impact comment was referring to the political nature of your complaint. Since it doesn't impact you, don't bring up the political complaint here since this isn't the place for political crying.
That was the point of me mentioning it.

wolfchild

Hey OP just go and purchase a frame from Surly, Salsa or Allcity. They make frames which can be built up as an IGH or Singlespeed or with a derailleur.

Branko D

Sure, that's true. It's one of the reasons why the OP is thinking backwards - they're starting by thinking of what kind of bike they like instead of what kind of riding they want to so. The basic design elements of a road bike are what they are because through time and experience they've demonstrated to be the best option for doing lots of miles on the road.

That said, you kind of walk back on your own argument by going off on a tangent how smashing stuff with a ratchet always worked out for you 😉
​​​​​
A road bike with the latest doodads is better at doing roadbike stuff than whatever iteration of road bike was around at the time you felt nostalgic for. Kids of today will be nostalgic about the simple days of 2x12 electronic drivetrains and simple hydraulic brakes instead of, I don't know, the wretched 1x28 drivetrains with automatic shifting and ABS brakes of 2060. I started riding a road bike when 2x10 wasn't a thing except for lower end bikes, so looking at 2x10 road drivetrains and gearing options it seems insane that someone would not ride a 2x11 setup which offers way wider gearing with still reasonably narrow jumps between gears. Do "we" need 2x12? No, because I can ride everything I want to ride with a 2x11.

You see what I am getting at?
​​​​

Metieval

What you are getting at, your ability to take stuff out of context.
My closing argument on the hammers , was use the correct tool for the job. The ratchet was , I thought , obvious example of the wrong tool. Yes it can smash stuff, but use the correct tool!

Yet you ignored the closing argument, I'll assume intentionally.

Intentionally because you also missed the point about gears. Completely glossed over it. maybe it was a mistake on your part, was you was in a hurry reading my post. *shrugs*

Which is, if you sacrifice durability, reliability, stability, is it really that much better?

I'm all for innovation and improvements, but not at the expense I mentioned. I had never broken a chain until I had sram 12s.

So reliability, usability, dependability is what defines better for me. You can define your version of "better" however you wish. But skipping my points doesn't make you better, it makes your rebuttal based on dishonesty.

PeteHski

Your personal experience of 12 speed does not align with mine. It sounds like you had an unfortunate experience in breaking a 12 speed chain. But that doesn’t mean that 12 speed chains are inherently worse than 9,10 or 11 speed chains. My 1x12 SRAM X01 mtb drivetrain has been totally flawless. So has my 2x12 SRAM Force AXS drivetrain on my road bike. What I have noticed about SRAM 12 speed chains is that they wear less than any other chains I’ve previously used.

Metieval

Enough so, that I'll never buy sram again.

Maelochs

First off .... the basic premise is dishonest. Bike shops sell a Bunch of different models ... just not the highly specific sorts the OP wants.

He knows this. He is just whining for attention.

Second, the idea that everything except SS is unreliable is nonsense. We all know it, the OP included. He is bringing it up as part of his whine, which was never grounded in reality.

This is just some guy whop got bored on a Sunday and stirred up a bunch of stuff on Bike Forums. Not susceptible to reasonable or logical rejoinders, and will ignore what he chooses not to dishonestly deny.

If the guy put this much energy into finding the bike he wants, he'd be out riding.

mschwett 

yeah, plus people buying so many things online to save a few percent.

the better bike shops here have lots of bikes. lots of road bikes. maybe even more full squish MTBs and hybrid/utility e-bikes. kids bikes. lots of cargo bikes. gravel bikes, of course. not too many serious niche products unless you go to a serious niche store (there are places that sell fixies and big rippers and other more obscure bikes but you have to seek them out.)

Jameth

The overall group mentality here seems to be that any bike that isn't a 12-speed, drop bar road bike (or some slight variation of that) designed for weekend "sport" riding with lycra and cleats is a "niche" product. And that I should find it perfectly reasonable, both for myself and for anyone new to cycling or looking to get into it for reasons other than those prescribed by the typical bike shop's aforementioned selection, to "suck it up" and have a bike custom-ordered and/or custom-built (the newcomers especially will love this) rather than "crying for the bike fairy" to show me a second kind of bike. Got it.

I'm glad that I came to a public forum for cyclists to raise my concerns about the COMICALLY unvarying bike selections I've been seeing and to learn that it is the work of gifted minds far greater than my own. Now I know. It was foolish and, frankly, self-centered of me to want to see other types of bicycles stocked in stores. I thought it was irresponsible and disingenuous for a shop-owner to expect a layman to draw an informed conclusion from staring at a wall of matchy-matchy bikes. I sure was a fool! Clearly, the conclusion has already been drawn for them, and they need only be fitted for lycra! Thank you! This is the way!

Maelochs

By Definition, a product which only a very small percentage of the buying public wants to buy is "niche" product. it is what the term means. Nobody said anything about weekends or lycra or cleats----those are YOUR prejudices. Thanks for showing your bad side.

The sad part is that people told you the truth and you are unable to accept it.

It is pretty clear you have never tired to run a business and particularly never tried retail sales. It is also obvious that you refuse to accept that you are ignorant about a lot of things, and also refuse to learn.

The more loudly you pitch your tantrum the more idiotic you look.

Go outside and shout at clouds. Call everyone sheep for thinking the world is round, or call us cowards for not resisting the Law of Gravity ... "It isn't a real law! it isn't in a law book!"

Bike shops want to stay in business. You want to be a sharp, sudden pull or tug. Success all around. Oh, happy day!

I have toured and commuted in cleats and on flat pedals, and I have commuted in Lycra. Pretty much everything in your post is inaccurate, dishonest, or the product of sustained willful ignorance.

Here is the bottom line-----Since you know better than everyone how a bike shop should be run .... go start a bike shop. Stock whatever you think needs to be sold.

Good luck.

Trakhak

So what's your point?

DangerousDanR

I had my Time Scylon configured to my specifications by Wrench Science ( https://www.wrenchscience.com/), right down to the Fizik Arione saddle. I checked their web site and they will build you a Parlee Chebacco XD LE 2023 with Campagnolo Ekar. If you want it setup as a flat bar touring bike I bet they would do that as well.

They are in Berzerkley California. I called them on the phone and had the bike shipped to me in Fargo ND. There is a shop here in Fargo that I saw a Karate Monkey setup as a drop bar bike, on the floor ready to sell.

On line or in person. So... kwitcher*****in!!!