Triple in the front
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Last decent system (IMO) for road riding, as opposed to touring, was the Ultegra 10 spd.
I’ve an Ultegra 9 spd., 26/38/52 with a 13-25 cassette. The 26 I added, stock was 30. It has about 18 non-repetitive gears. A gravel rig I’m purchasing with. 30/48 and 11-34 11 spd system has the same number of non-repetitive gears, not quiet as high a gear, but a pretty useful range.
I’ve an Ultegra 9 spd., 26/38/52 with a 13-25 cassette. The 26 I added, stock was 30. It has about 18 non-repetitive gears. A gravel rig I’m purchasing with. 30/48 and 11-34 11 spd system has the same number of non-repetitive gears, not quiet as high a gear, but a pretty useful range.
#27
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I’ve an Ultegra 9 spd., 26/38/52 with a 13-25 cassette. The 26 I added, stock was 30. It has about 18 non-repetitive gears. A gravel rig I’m purchasing with. 30/48 and 11-34 11 spd system has the same number of non-repetitive gears, not quiet as high a gear, but a pretty useful range.
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Last decent system (IMO) for road riding, as opposed to touring, was the Ultegra 10 spd.
I’ve an Ultegra 9 spd., 26/38/52 with a 13-25 cassette. The 26 I added, stock was 30. It has about 18 non-repetitive gears. A gravel rig I’m purchasing with. 30/48 and 11-34 11 spd system has the same number of non-repetitive gears, not quiet as high a gear, but a pretty useful range.
I’ve an Ultegra 9 spd., 26/38/52 with a 13-25 cassette. The 26 I added, stock was 30. It has about 18 non-repetitive gears. A gravel rig I’m purchasing with. 30/48 and 11-34 11 spd system has the same number of non-repetitive gears, not quiet as high a gear, but a pretty useful range.
#29
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A new 48/32 Chorus 12 crank with an 11-34 12 speed cassette does not have wide sprocket spacing, a wider range than most triples and no more shifting. Those who have never used Campy, don't think of the ability to shift 3 cogs smaller or 4 cogs larger with one push of the finger lever or thumb button. It's not tap-tap-tap like Shimano.
A Shimano 11-34 cassette has 11-13-15-17 jumps, while Campy's 11-34 is 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-29-34. The bigger jumps come in the large cogs, where they are needed.
A Shimano 11-34 cassette has 11-13-15-17 jumps, while Campy's 11-34 is 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-29-34. The bigger jumps come in the large cogs, where they are needed.
Last edited by DaveSSS; 11-20-19 at 09:13 AM.
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My typical commute use has me using similar gears in both setups, so I didn’t feel like I was giving up much, just the tighter cluster that is why triples work.
Mind, I’ve always been a fan of triples and as others have stated it’s all in the ability to set up the front derailer. Using a near corn cob cassette with the range coming from a triple always made sense to me, but I can also see why doubles with a good crank like a 30/48 is a good choice especially with the range of an 11 spd.
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I climbed enough of the Angeles mountains (I think?) leaving LAon a West-East tour in 2015 …. And that was a looong climb. Averaged only five percent (which is a lot, for me) but it also lasted for a couple hours with very few breaks.
If I were doing it again I might want to try that 26 or a 28 low---but 30x34 got me over the top.
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"Inner" chain rings are not symmetrical on higher end front ends. The FD is also a bit different. I believe this is done, because the manufactures think it works better. I think it works better (than a neutral middle).
Other issues can be bolt circle. A 110 BCD with 52T - small can get modern thin chains wedged in-between rings. Some designs prevent this.
You have to work at it to get a triple front with an 11 rear that does not nearly overlap in several gears. Our tandem had your pictured crankset with two big rings and a smaller (25T?) bailout gear. It did not shift nearly as well as the Dura-Ace 2X stuff, not even close. But for us, a 1X and 11spd on the rear is fine. We can adjust 5 RPM in cadence. I understand the need for low bail out gears, and for really high ones. I don't understand the need for 33, or even 22 across the range for much anything.
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My low is a 24x34. My last tour out west included, among other things, a 15 mile unpaved pass with about 3,300' of elevation gain and a ruling grade close to 9% that left me more than 30 miles from my campsite. It also included Thompson Pass from ID into MT, the last 4 miles of which average over 7%.
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Yet if I can ride my triples with "no front shifting issues" for years on end what's the point of 1X other than an option for people that can't properly setup a bike? 1X is like an excuse to not know what you are doing.
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I would want those tight steps down low---wrestling a load (and lately, just my own weight qualifies as “a load”) up a mountain is serious business. I am not talking about several hundred meters, I am talking about a long, long climb when your legs have already had enough, but your campsite is over the crest.
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There is a parallel universe. In this parallel universe, bicycle derailleur systems were originally a primitive, complicated, indexed shifting system. Triples shifted poorly so were dropped. Chainrings required pins and ramps to shift and had to be matched to each other. Outer chainrings required a pin on the outside to catch chain over-shifts. The inner plates of front derailleurs needed to be sculpted and matched to the matched chainrings in order to shift properly or at all. Eventually, 2x drive systems were dropped. Customization of the drive train was limited. Derailleur instruction manuals were pages and pages long and youtube was full of videos on how to make them work. The bike forums were over-run with endless questions regarding the compatibility of various parts and discussions regarding proper set-up and adjustment. “Didn’t you read page 39 of the instructions?” But in time, the bicycle evolved and friction shifting was developed to solve the many shortcomings of indexed drive systems. Issues of compatibility all but disappeared, 3x drive systems became popular and shifted well, pins and ramps and sculpted derailleur cages were eliminated, chain rings became available in almost any tooth count allowing one to customize one’s drive system in endless ways. Instruction “manuals” became a single page. Life became simple and good.
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I typically used a triple on my tandem where two rings were for driving, and the third as for syncing. I did that for years. But that was before I had 11 speeds.
I also had a triple on road and MTB, also when they were 6 speed cassettes.
With the triple I was limited on the cranks and spindles I could use. I'm partial to spindles and cranks not available in triple. The spindle not extending so far from the BB is also preferred.
On the tandem, I saved a lot of weight with the FD, and two rings and heavier crank as I have more choices in cranks.
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There is a parallel universe. In this parallel universe, bicycle derailleur systems were originally a primitive, complicated, indexed shifting system. Triples shifted poorly so were dropped. Chainrings required pins and ramps to shift and had to be matched to each other. Outer chainrings required a pin on the outside to catch chain over-shifts. The inner plates of front derailleurs needed to be sculpted and matched to the matched chainrings in order to shift properly or at all. Eventually, 2x drive systems were dropped. Customization of the drive train was limited. Derailleur instruction manuals were pages and pages long and youtube was full of videos on how to make them work. The bike forums were over-run with endless questions regarding the compatibility of various parts and discussions regarding proper set-up and adjustment. “Didn’t you read page 39 of the instructions?” But in time, the bicycle evolved and friction shifting was developed to solve the many shortcomings of indexed drive systems. Issues of compatibility all but disappeared, 3x drive systems became popular and shifted well, pins and ramps and sculpted derailleur cages were eliminated, chain rings became available in almost any tooth count allowing one to customize one’s drive system in endless ways. Instruction “manuals” became a single page. Life became simple and good.
I believe a triple can be made to work very smoothly. I do not believe it can be as smooth as the best doubles with orientation, one shift direction (small ring chain always goes right), ramps and money that went into making them so good. The Dura-Ace rings have about 15 parts in them and a lot of R&D. But in the end, if a market does not have the skill to adjust derailleurs like @jamesdak , the market may choose the simpler option, over investing in a new skill. That and it is lighter and stiffer, and reduced Q factor (I don't care, but some do) not to have a triple.
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Get a CVT hub. I have one. They are heavy. They also seem to rob power, but there are no steps. I though riding one was a good idea, and that helped me determine that I was pretty happy between 80 and 110 RPM depending on my mood so a few teeth here and there was not a big deal.
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Also many tandems.
I have to look at our tandem, it's Shimano 105 shifters, but I forget the crank/rings (the crank arms are carbon, tho). I think the RD is 105 as well.
(Not that this answers the OP's question ... sorry.)
I have to look at our tandem, it's Shimano 105 shifters, but I forget the crank/rings (the crank arms are carbon, tho). I think the RD is 105 as well.
(Not that this answers the OP's question ... sorry.)
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In my job job I've designed things I thought would be easy for users that users found not so easy. Of course an investment in more user training, or new designs can be a solution, but generally the more economical one is to remove the feature and simplify.
I believe a triple can be made to work very smoothly. I do not believe it can be as smooth as the best doubles with orientation, one shift direction (small ring chain always goes right), ramps and money that went into making them so good. The Dura-Ace rings have about 15 parts in them and a lot of R&D. But in the end, if a market does not have the skill to adjust derailleurs like @jamesdak , the market may choose the simpler option, over investing in a new skill. That and it is lighter and stiffer, and reduced Q factor (I don't care, but some do) not to have a triple.
I believe a triple can be made to work very smoothly. I do not believe it can be as smooth as the best doubles with orientation, one shift direction (small ring chain always goes right), ramps and money that went into making them so good. The Dura-Ace rings have about 15 parts in them and a lot of R&D. But in the end, if a market does not have the skill to adjust derailleurs like @jamesdak , the market may choose the simpler option, over investing in a new skill. That and it is lighter and stiffer, and reduced Q factor (I don't care, but some do) not to have a triple.
I will admit that my best shifting triple and doubles are the ones running the Wickwerks Chainrings. Those babies are amazing.
https://wickwerks.com/technology/chainrings/
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#44
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I just ordered what I hope will be my lifetime supply of 39T middle rings. Thanks for the encouragement up-thread. I have Shimano triples on 4 bikes, but I only ride the tandem in the rain anymore, so it's the only one that's really been going through the chainrings. I finally bought a SS inner ring for it. Aluminum 26T didn't last at all on the tandem. What goes bad on the middle rings besides the tooth shape is the burring. That's what causes chain suck. I've tried filing off the burrs, but that doesn't seem to work forever. If my rings are in good shape, all my triples shift like a dream, all on Ultegra brifters, some 9sp, some 10sp. The front brifter has to match the FD. They're so easy to set up, I don't know what people complain about.
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I just ordered what I hope will be my lifetime supply of 39T middle rings. Thanks for the encouragement up-thread. I have Shimano triples on 4 bikes, but I only ride the tandem in the rain anymore, so it's the only one that's really been going through the chainrings. I finally bought a SS inner ring for it. Aluminum 26T didn't last at all on the tandem. What goes bad on the middle rings besides the tooth shape is the burring. That's what causes chain suck. I've tried filing off the burrs, but that doesn't seem to work forever. If my rings are in good shape, all my triples shift like a dream, all on Ultegra brifters, some 9sp, some 10sp. The front brifter has to match the FD. They're so easy to set up, I don't know what people complain about.
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A 42/28 Crank matched to an 11-36 cassette would serve 95% of all riders of nearly all fitness levels for nearly any activity from the flat lands to the mountains. Want to pace line with your A group? Covered. Older rider with bad knees want to climb some mountains? Covered. Everything in between? Covered.
https://www.bikecalc.com/speed_at_cadence
https://www.bikecalc.com/speed_at_cadence
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I have actually had this conversation with a few people over the last year or so. I understand why they went away (fashion) but there were some really good ones out there. We have gone away from it but like with all things cycling it will come back around. It's just a matter of when. People will start talking about how with a triple system you can run a shorter chain and have a smaller/lighter rear derailleur, etc. Front shifting performance wasn't an issue at all for anything made by Shimano about mid line up and Campagnolo made some stellar triple setups.
If you're still interested then find some used Campagnolo Record triple stuff being sold used somewhere. Buy up the spares you need (springs/index rings for the shifters and jockey pulleys and an extra cassette or two) and ride it throughout the rest of your lifetime if you like.
It will be funny to watch it come back though.... and it will. Someone will be like, "there were all sorts of shifting problems back in the day with triples. Now with precise, sure and strong electronic front derailleurs with automatic trim those problems are long gone. Now we can get you the wide array of gearing choices in such a smaller and lighter package than current 1x14 groups!"
If you're still interested then find some used Campagnolo Record triple stuff being sold used somewhere. Buy up the spares you need (springs/index rings for the shifters and jockey pulleys and an extra cassette or two) and ride it throughout the rest of your lifetime if you like.
It will be funny to watch it come back though.... and it will. Someone will be like, "there were all sorts of shifting problems back in the day with triples. Now with precise, sure and strong electronic front derailleurs with automatic trim those problems are long gone. Now we can get you the wide array of gearing choices in such a smaller and lighter package than current 1x14 groups!"
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It will be funny to watch it come back though.... and it will. Someone will be like, "there were all sorts of shifting problems back in the day with triples. Now with precise, sure and strong electronic front derailleurs with automatic trim those problems are long gone. Now we can get you the wide array of gearing choices in such a smaller and lighter package than current 1x14 groups!"
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Whatever we end up with I am pretty sure it will be paired with a rear gearbox.
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