Digger Goreman

I have a former student (10 yrs old, still at my school) that would love to cycle. His legs barely function (can sorta walk several meters). Due to "the system" he is stuck in a chair with no propulsion means till he outgrows it. The kid deserves better.

Between reading about extracycles and seeing a diy trike made of regular bike parts, I wonder if we could design a no weld bike for him?

I envision a forward lying ride, using an upside down bottom bracket, mated to a steering tube with a seat post in between. Feet supported behind by pegs at the back axle. BB not needed for rear drive, so could use for a pair of tubed "training" wheels for stability, i.e. four wheels in all (?). Definitely use a step-through frame.

The diy guy used a coaster wheel up front, controlling brakes with drive chain.

Devise a chest support for the forward, lay down position?

This would require design within my limited hacksaw/wrenching abilities with what I can find at the co-op.

CliffordK

Ouch... I saw a hancycle at the local thrift store a couple of days ago. They hadn't set their bikes out when I was last there so I don't know if it is still there. If it lasts till Tuesday, it would be about $150 or so, I think.

It was one of the semi-upright, semi-wheel chair models commercially made by Invacare.

https://www.sportaid.com/invacare-to...handcycle.html

Whew, those are mighty expensive.

Digger Goreman

Yes, expensive, even used.... The positioning of rider, in my mind, would be similar to a drag bike racer.

CliffordK

There are some lower ones, similar to the tadpole recumbents, which may be good for a kid.

Actually, quite a few on Craigslist, but most are pretty expensive.
https://www.google.com/search?client...craigslist.org

https://racine.craigslist.org/bik/d/...996750312.html

Nonetheless, I wouldn't be surprised if they would be subsidized by insurance, or similar.

I'll check on that Invacare Handcycle Tuesday AM, and let you know if it is still there. Shipping would likely be a pain, but it could probably be torn apart to pack.

It would at least give something to start practising with, and could donate parts if you wanted something different.

Recumbent trikes pop up quite a bit, but tend to be exensive, but might be a good base to modify.

Our local bike co-op makes what they call their tri-hauler. It is a leg steered recumbent. Several photos of it here, including some construction photos. Obviously a different crank position, but something similar might be easy enough to modify.

Cargo Bikes & Human Powered Machines on Student Show

The handcycles I've seen typically have a fairly normal crankset, and special hand pedals attached to crank arms, both together.

I did see one that was supposed to be seat steered. Interesting concept. I think it was rolling the seat to move the steering.

Kent T

Insurance won't pay for one of these, as it's considered sports/recreational equipment. An aluminum framed, light weight sports chair (a la TiLite Aero Z) is as fancy as most insurance will fund.

Digger Goreman

Thanks, CliffordK, I'll take a look!

Digger Goreman

So, I've found a possible bike to base it on. What are rhe challenges in mating a seat post to the steering tube?

slow_runner

IMO an old Quickie Shadow would suit better. The loop style frame allows for easier transfer of limbs and the 9 degree camber gives better stability. Plus they were Cromo steel frames.
Have you seen the quality of the welding on the aluminium Top End stuff ? Compare it to the TIG on a Shadow - no competition.

slow_runner

A Good thread Digger.
I agree, the boy deserves better.
Can you get a neighbourhood/local fundraiser going and the readies should appear quickly.
I think that to get the child onto a machine that has been manufactured to quality standards, where parts can be readily sourced through outlets or from within the cycling community is a better option.
In all likelihood, this course will enable him to be up and cycling quicker AND give him access to a support community.
Do you have a local spinal support group or access via the Care Cure forum
CareCure Forums

I have taken the liberty of posting a request on the forum. If I have overstepped a mark, or deemed to have hijacked, please PM me or note here and I will shut it down'

https://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthr...17#post1890717

If this young boys' legs are knackered he will need assistance and advice. He will have a perspective that we can all learn from and be able to contribute to those similarly afflicted.

Check here also.
https://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthr...pment-for-Kids
There may be some key that will afford this youngster access to funding, or other.
I do not know his background but I can assure you that many people with a disabilty are outside; I was. It is far better having access, even if it is only contact with others in similar circumstances.


A Post script - Nothing personal to you Digger. I dont like that word 'kid' for children; when I grew up it was a disparaging word for an annoying child; or a young goat - it still is.

CliffordK

Hmmm... There is a Shadow on E-Bay. Not terribly expensive.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/QUICKIE-SUN...-/392304948269

But, it appears to have a straight bar frame, and wheel powered only.

There is a Quickie pedal powered one for about twice as much.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Quickie-HandCycle/123766907457

Are those tubular tires on those two trikes?

Another Quckie, a bit less of a racing type coming up for auction very shortly.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Quickie-han...n/392607681198

I've been wondering a bit what it would take to modify a basic delta trike (or 3 wheel wheelchair) to a crank powered handcycle (or twin crank/pedal powered). It shouldn't be too hard of a conversion, but it would take a fair amount of welding. Perhaps also shortening the reach somewhat.

Digger Goreman

Thanks, Slow_Runner, any help is appreciated! If anyone wanted to be super swell on the giving end, I would be happy to liason in any way I can. Every morning I meet him in the bus circle to go to breakfast. He's got a good spirit. I'd love to see it wheeling free.

slow_runner

That spirit within the lad is worth assisting so it can develop further Digger.
I feel that you know this though .
Clifford has nominated some units on Ebay. You are on the ball, good work Clifford (and I am not peeing in your pocket either).
Diligence and many hands will cause this project(?) to arrive at a successful point.
Recumbents.
My thinking is that a more upright handcycle is preferred. Some say the uprights are unstable and that may be true without camber and correct instruction. - the recumbents are way too low for my liking; both for independent transfers on and off also visibility and safety concerns.
They also have a limited turn circle and are more suitable for open cycleways etc.
Whereas, the upright Shadow will turn on a sixpence. The steering is spring loaded/dampened for self aligning while an effort is required to turn acutely.

I should reveal my bias, I have an older 1996 Quickie Shadow handcycle that affords me rapid transport with way less effort and shoulder damage than my wheelchair.
The trouble for me is that once I am in it, that is where I stay until I return to my wheelchair

I did try out a Top EndExcelerator but as I mentioned previously, getting my legs up and over the frame spine tube was problematic for me.
Then the Shadow came up on our local auction site. The Sachs hub was stripped and rebuilt ; the upholstery has been replaced with some 2nd hand TiLite covers that are a marked improvement on the tired stuff you see in this image.
This has a Schlumpf drive which gives me 14 speed. A front wheel with cluster and a 3 x chainwheel would give a good spread of 21 speeds or more.
No doubt, access to what you may need would be more available and far, far easier over in the USA.
I am sure there will be more caring, generous souls ready to pitch in. It could be the start of something good for others who are in this boys situation.

Digger Goreman

That's a great looking bike, slow_runner
My young friend makes do with a walker at school but, even with that on a smooth floor, his gait is wildly side to side. Outside, those crappy little wheels bog down in everything. He could, I feel, get into your chair, but not clear any higher bar.

Would there be any advantage, at this point, of involving school admin?

Thank your/our friend (Clifford) for his immediate and helping heart.

slow_runner

Thanks Digger although I am not sure about it being great looking .
For me the aesthetics are secondary. It is functional, well designed for my purpose,not too sophisticated, I have good visibility on it and can be seen readily by those driver who pay attention. Also, I can get on and off it with a minimum of effort. I think that is all.....

School administration would have a responsibility to see that their pupil does not pose a risk to himself or others. How they might react, I could not say. Perhaps a discreet word to see what direction they may move? ( the USA is known as the nation of litigation. Equally, as I have heard it from others, it is also one of the most advanced nation in accessibility matters)

I sourced a walker for my older mates wife. It was a freeby and had the smaller wheels that tend to get caught in and on every surface slightest irregularity. A real safety hazard IMO; the small wheels should be excluded.
We immediately set about fitting larger diameter wheels and relocating the brakes; there she had it a means of mobilising herself in the care home.
I doubt she used it more than once. Not because it was not suitable but she had given up and was preparing.
She has passed on and J has it at his home. he has knackered knees and being an obstinate determined old bloke, he too resists that which is good for him.
Here is the laugh. He admits to enjoying using the supermarket trolleys for the support that they give him when grocery shopping. AND when he and I go out, he is keen to push my chair for that very same reason.
Work that one out

Small wheels are inherently unsafe and, as you describe, bog down in soil, sand etc. They also get caught at near every slight change in surface.
If your young friend has a gait as you describe, perhaps he should consider a wheelchair for moving distances? I persevered with crutches for way too long. It was only when I could no longer mobilise with them that I sought help and had a wheelchair supplied through our health system.
In hindsight I should have not been so bull headed and waited so long before I was forced by circumstance. A different decision may have very likely allowed me more time without relying on a full-time chair, .
A stitch in time saves nine, correct?
Anyway, that is hindsight. What needs to be done is what will serve this lad the best. Also, he may need persuasion to come to terms with decisions that which will aid and assist him to have a more mobile life.
Am I reading too much into this?

Best get in touch with mobility agencies that have people that he can identify with and who can offer help and direction.
Check out that Care Cure link I posted earlier. Perhaps register and enquire there? Ideally, the young boy and his parents should be with you on this.

Russ Roth

This may just be a cultural difference in the use of the word. In my church the younger ones are kids and the younger age groups combined are youth. The previous pastor called the younger kids children and that upset some of the older adults. "Acting like a child" or "be childish" is disparaging. Whereas someone "just being a kid" can be used to excuse behavior by a child. I never say my children but always refer to them as my kids. Just an FYI.

Not to discourage but some thoughts. Non-welded system seems like it might be a little rickety unless really well thought out, finding someone to weld would also allow for greater design possibilities. The position that you seem to be describing would, if I'm reading it right" have him facing down and forward which would make it harder to breath while riding vs more of a lounge chair position. Used such as in the links others are posting might be the better way vs reinventing, as slow-runner mentions we can be a litigious society and a design flaw in a branded item means its their suit to deal with. People will also happily chip into a fundraiser for something that is purpose built for him. Either way, good to hear someone cares enough to want to do something about it.

slow_runner

Thinking on, a Top End for US$150 is not too bad & maybe worth enquiring about.
Some questions.
Is it a good price in the US? I do not know.
Is it in good mechanical and cosmetic condition?
Maybe the Co-op can accommodate a further reduction in price?
Seat size is not too much of a concern. It can be padded to accommodate a smaller framed person.
The seat frame is on a slide rail system; same as a car. The seat frame can be reduced or increased in width with a tube cutter and insert, or welding. There is more than one way of skinning a cat.

Digger Goreman

An amazing bike! IF combined efforts could acquire it, where is it located? Maybe I could transport, or rendevous for a hand-off? Just thinking out loud....

slow_runner

If you are speaking of the handcycle, yes they are good for moving with less effort than a wheelchair. Both modes have pros and cons. A wheelchair is more maneuverable in restricted places than a trike. Moving within a school facility, a wheelchair is likely the better option. Does he walk to school, bus or taken by car?
Get in touch with a local area disability agency. A member driven one is likely better for grounded advice from people who live the life rather than observe the life that requires these aids.
I have sent you a PM Digger. Have you contacted Clifford?
If you go the handcycle way and all sorted with the seller, parents, the lad etc, I would contribute from here.
US $150 for the handcycle with 10 pledges is a minimum amount. 20+ pledges brings the contribution to a fraction and will enable this young lad.
As we know, all the people directly involved need to be onboard beforehand.
Keep us informed Digger.

Digger Goreman

Read everything... We come off vacation Monday, so I'll see about contacting the parents. I didn't see Clifford's contact info... is it by reg with the Rutgers forum?

What is a ballpark total for getting the bike to the young man. I have to believe that teachers and admin would be happy to contribute....

SpinClassSara

I see "arm bikes" at the gym. Style it like one of those.

slow_runner

Hook onto the Rutgers site and there is also a sale/wanted sub section where you can buy, sell or wanted - where you can ask the membership for equipment that is free donation.
I see that Clifford is waaay over the other side (2,600 miles) so the logistics could be difficult/costly?
Who knows; maybe someone is in the trucking game and can come on board?

Ha, indeed I am slow!
Digger, there is the market place sub section on this site where you should also put out this call for the young fellow.
That would broaden the net and involve more than just those who frequent this particular section.
Imagine a transport relay across the nation? From Oregon. in the North West to Georgia in the South East

Humanity and generosity is found all over the motu.

Digger Goreman

Spoke with my lead, special ed, teacher. Will have to touch base with his Physical Training Specialists, but she feels very positive about this. The PT's also have the best contact with his parents.... Baby steps, but progressing....

Digger Goreman

Awaiting confirmation for Rutgers forum registry.

To the BF membership: IF the Oregon thrift store bike is procurable, would members be willing to pony express it across the country? Or does anyone work/liason with a trucking company that could perform gratis?

Thank You for kind thoughts and allowing me to come to you, hat in hand.

DG

CliffordK

That handcycle at St. Vincents was gone by the time I got back there. Otherwise I would have brought it home and figured out how to ship it. I still need to go back to the co-op, but I think their handcycles were sold.

I've got a somewhat hectic month ahead of me, but it would be an interesting project to try to build a handcycle from scratch (perhaps recycling some basic parts).

If I do it, however, I'd probably build a synchronized hand/leg cycle to get exercise and movement for both the hands and legs. Clip-in (straps/cleats) for the feet?

I'm thinking of something similar to our co-op tri-hauler. Although, now I'm wondering how to get the cranks back to the upper body without being in the way too much. Allow the bars/cranks to fold forward and back and lock? Getting in and out would be a bit of a hassle, but it sounds like the kid has some use of his legs.

Cargo Bikes & Human Powered Machines on Student Show





Of course, that is designed for cargo, but a similar concept for a more general purpose trike.

I'm not sure about brakes. I'd probably choose crank/pedal brakes + hand brakes. Do you think a BMX detangler would take the abuse of a crankset?

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=44151



How tall is the kid? It would be best to build something that was adjustable, although perhaps one could build a practice bike, and a second one later.

Digger Goreman

Is this worth "two farts and a fiddle"?
https://charlotte.craigslist.org/bik...020230932.html