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Any real benefits of 11 speed over 10 speed?

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Any real benefits of 11 speed over 10 speed?

Old 01-09-20, 04:53 PM
  #51  
WalksOn2Wheels
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I've got 5700 10 speed on my Crockett and DA9000 11 speed on my Domane. Honestly, aside from the extra cog and the front end shift being super smooth and easy on the longer arm of the DA9000 front mech, I barely notice any real performance difference. I still want to upgrade the Crockett to 11 speed.
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Old 01-09-20, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
Won't the current 142mm rear standard resolve this?
Well yeah, I'd hope most wheel designers won't totally waste the extra 12mm for disc brake wheels. But then with disk you've got either a wider Q or a crap chainline...

Last edited by Kimmo; 01-09-20 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 01-10-20, 04:20 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
Do you mean 135mm QR MTB spacing? That has more to do with disc brakes than hub geometry since almost every hub now has interchangeable endcaps to switch between standards
No. I mean 12x142 spacing that lots of road bikes with thru axles use. It was mainly designed for disk brakes, but it also has some advantages when using a wider cassette, as it allows to move the cassette outwards together with the DS spokes, thus making the wheel stronger.
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Old 01-10-20, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
No. I mean 12x142 spacing that lots of road bikes with thru axles use. It was mainly designed for disk brakes, but it also has some advantages when using a wider cassette, as it allows to move the cassette outwards together with the DS spokes, thus making the wheel stronger.
wheel dish, cassette and disc location are in the exact same spots as 10x135qr which is a super old mtb standard, this wasnt invented for road disc application. Only the frame design was changed to make install easier with slots in the frame for the endcaps
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Old 01-10-20, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
12 speed is already here and eventually Shimano will catch up with SRAM and Campy. The trend with 12 speed is to increase range, not the decrease the spacing between sprockets. The sprocket spacing on the new Campy 11-34 is 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-29-34. It retains all of the close spacing, up to the 19T, before increasing the percentage of change between the sprockets. The tightest spacing 11-29 is the same, up to the 19, then it's 21-23-26-29. Some users are whining that there is no 11-27 that includes an 18T. I've never opted to have a cassette with an 18T sprocket.

As for the rear wheel dish, it's been the same for Campy since 9 speed in 1997. Campy solves the spoke tension issue by using half as many spokes on the nondrive side as seen in the Fulcrum 2:1 pattern or with groups of three spokes - two for the drive side and one for the nondrive side. The current Zonda wheels are very reasonably priced. They use 16 spokes on the front, radially laced and 21 spokes in the rear - 7 groups of 3 spokes.
Nothing makes you look quite so reasonable as calling others "whiners".
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Old 01-10-20, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mdcoram View Post
I think I'm missing the good ol' 10 speed days. I'm riding fewer miles now than ever before but it sure seems like I'm going through a lot of 11 speed chains. I know more is almost always better but other than slightly tighter ratios between each gear are there really any benefits to 11 speeds?
Boy a lot of variety of discussion here. But I think worth pointing out that supposedly your original premise is incorrect, and seemingly every iteration (for Shimano anyway) of progressively more speeds chains, has gotten longer lasting than the previous.

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Old 01-10-20, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mdcoram View Post
I think I'm missing the good ol' 10 speed days. I'm riding fewer miles now than ever before but it sure seems like I'm going through a lot of 11 speed chains. I know more is almost always better but other than slightly tighter ratios between each gear are there really any benefits to 11 speeds?
based on my modest experience, if you don't use or don't need cog 11, there is no advantage of having 11 sp cassette and you generally use cog 11 only when riding downhill. i use standard 53/39 crank on my bikes, both Campagnolo drive trains.
however, if you did not stack up the parts , it is not easy to find components and make the drive train that is the best for you, particularly using Shimano parts that are scarce and last around 40% of the campy parts life span, again, based on my experience...
nothing is simple in BF's....
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Old 01-11-20, 08:51 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Boy a lot of variety of discussion here. But I think worth pointing out that supposedly your original premise is incorrect, and seemingly every iteration (for Shimano anyway) of progressively more speeds chains, has gotten longer lasting than the previous.

Comparing the life and quality of an HG40 vs a CM9100 is not apples to apples.
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Old 01-11-20, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by u235 View Post
Comparing the life and quality of an HG40 vs a CM9100 is not apples to apples.
My guess is they tested what was still available to buy? That said, the OP was about 10 vs 11 speed chains anyway.
The original source article linked below -- feel free to review.
https://cyclingtips.com/2019/12/the-...10-11-12-speed
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Old 01-11-20, 11:14 AM
  #60  
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Good point. I didn't extend my cass gear range moving from 10spd to 11, so the extra gear is imperceptible. I appreciate tight gearing to keep my cadence in the sweet spot, so I'm sure that's been helped a bit - but, I rarely recall the 10spd giving me issues in that regard. Also, the extra gear didn't make me faster (grrr).

Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
It will also depend on whether or not you extend your range. Moving from a 10sp 11-25 to an 11sp 11-25 will give you more options in the middle. Going from a 10sp 11-25 to an 11sp 11-27 will give you the same 11-25 gearing, plus an additional lower option.
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Old 01-11-20, 12:20 PM
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It's also only one extra gear in one spot, whether it's gaining an 11, a 28/30/32/34, or a single gear in the middle (a 16, maybe). If that's not a spot that's bugged you, or you're happy with your previous range, 11-speed isn't going to give you much benefit. Chain life is nice, but no one is going to spend at minimum a few hundred on the upgrade to get marginally longer chain life.

The only reason we changed to 11-speed was to get Di2 on the tri bikes, where it makes a big difference.
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Old 01-11-20, 12:31 PM
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It is nice to always get a 16, which you don’t always get on a 10spd cassette.
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Old 01-11-20, 05:05 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
It is nice to always get a 16, which you don’t always get on a 10spd cassette.
With 10 speed cassettes, I love 12-23.

12-19t with no gaps.
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Old 01-13-20, 10:41 AM
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When I had my very nice and Expensive Waterford RS33 custom built for me by a very prominent local shop here in the Denver Boulder area, unbeknownst to me at the time, but 11 Speed Campy Grupo was just introduced... but the shop installed 10 Speed Campy Record and never told me about the 11 or gave me a choice. Years later, the 10 Speed has been fine, but parts, like the middle chain ring of the Triple are getting scarce, so the shop tells me. Just an added thought to the conversation about 10 vs 11.
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Old 01-13-20, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
11 speed shifters work better than 7900/6700/5700 10 speed shifters, but the old shifters(that don't use hidden shifter cables) work the best.
I have an old Giant wet weather bike with 9 speed 105, it hasn't missed a beat in years and is far smoother than my 10 speed SRAM Red (black edition) which I seem to be constantly adjusting.
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Old 01-13-20, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by PeeCee View Post
I have an old Giant wet weather bike with 9 speed 105, it hasn't missed a beat in years and is far smoother than my 10 speed SRAM Red (black edition) which I seem to be constantly adjusting.
1991 8spd Campagnolo Record works better than 10spd SRAM Red.

10spd SRAM Red blows.
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Old 01-14-20, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
1991 8spd Campagnolo Record works better than 10spd SRAM Red.

10spd SRAM Red blows.
What ever :-/
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Old 01-14-20, 12:57 AM
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Any real benefits of 11 speed over 10 speed?

Originally Posted by mdcoram View Post
I think I'm missing the good ol' 10 speed days. I'm riding fewer miles now than ever before but it sure seems like I'm going through a lot of 11 speed chains. I know more is almost always better but other than slightly tighter ratios between each gear are there really any benefits to 11 speeds?
To answer your title question... um- no. Except to the manufacturers who keep you buying new stuff all the time.
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Old 01-15-20, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by PeeCee View Post
What ever :-/
He's not wrong. Your comment even implies you already know that.
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Old 01-16-20, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
1991 8spd Campagnolo Record works better than 10spd SRAM Red.

10spd SRAM Red blows.
The original Red FD certainly blew.

But I have no idea what you're talking about otherwise; I'll take my 10s Red over poxy old Campy 8s in a hummingbird's heartbeat. I'm prepared to trade the clunky lever feel for its lightweight minimalism. I appreciate the spartan elegance of its design. No silly clockwork to seize up if the grease gets a bit stiff, no G springs to go soft. Hardly anything in there; mine have never missed a beat. Sure the Yaw FD is a bit of a fiddle to set up, but I reckon it's the tits - trimming be damned. The levers are plenty ergo and look great. IMO the whole group (2nd gen) looks great.

Mind you, it's Shimano all the way for my hubs, chains and brakes.
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Old 01-16-20, 08:39 AM
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With the latest Shimano 11-speed, 11-34 cassette can be retrofitted to in an older 10-speed hub (you either need or don't need the spacer) and now gives you a 1-to-1 gear option with the commonly-found, 105 compact 34-crank ring and RD.
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Old 01-16-20, 03:56 PM
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I wonder how long the super wide gears fad is gonna last before folks decide they're sick of big jumps... gonna be a whole heap of peeps shopping for 11s wheels so they can use something other than 11-34.
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Old 01-16-20, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
I wonder how long the super wide gears fad is gonna last before folks decide they're sick of big jumps... gonna be a whole heap of peeps shopping for 11s wheels so they can use something other than 11-34.
I've wondered that as well. The gravel racing world is in the midst of a debate over 2X or 1X. I just don't understand why anyone would ever want the cadence jumps associated with a 10-42 cassette.
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Old 01-16-20, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by travelerman View Post

It's one more, innit?
Damn, beat me to it.
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Old 01-16-20, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
I've wondered that as well. The gravel racing world is in the midst of a debate over 2X or 1X. I just don't understand why anyone would ever want the cadence jumps associated with a 10-42 cassette.
+1

On mountain bikes those jumps are no big deal, but they’re terrible on road/gravel.
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