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Used Trek 520 — what to look out for

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Used Trek 520 — what to look out for

Old 07-24-20, 12:15 PM
  #26  
koenbro
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So the Park Tool crank remover came today and I was able to remove the crank arms. What tool do I need to remove the BB? It says BC 1.37 68 and looks like this, the diameter appears to be 32mm. It's possibly the BBT-32C, but thought I'd check first.

Last edited by koenbro; 07-24-20 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 07-24-20, 01:01 PM
  #27  
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Shimano UN type cartridge bearing the number is common British thread so left hand threaded on the right side..

https://www.parktool.com/product/bottom-bracket-tool-bbt-22?category=Crank%20%26%20Bottom%20Bracket
or

https://www.parktool.com/product/bot...ttom%20Bracket
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Old 07-24-20, 01:19 PM
  #28  
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It sure looks like a standard shimano bottom bracket tool for square taper. I bought mine from Nashbar, I think mine is half inch drive.

The 1.37 68 means it is a standard british thread, most british bottom bracket shells are 68mm and this would be one of those. (One of my bikes uses a 73mm bottom bracket.)

At 54 seconds into this video, he is holding a cartridge square taper bottom bracket like you have. And at 6:20 he is installing one.

The cartridge bottom bracket is non-serviceable, if the bearings are bad you replace it. Otherwise, re-install. Or, if you are nervous because it is 20 years old, a new UN55 bottom bracket is cheap. Match the spindle length if you order a new one.

There are some cartridge bottom brackets that are serviceable, but those are rare and cost more.
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Old 07-24-20, 02:46 PM
  #29  
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Thank you both Tourist in MSN and fietsbob. I ordered the BB tool.

While waiting for its delivery, I need to decide what to do about the crankset, as it seems worn out, particularly the middle (which I expect to use the most) and the large one. I would like to keep the 7 speed cassette and a triple in the front, with 46-36-26 or very similar. Ebay does not seem to offer new-old stock replacements. Any ideas where to source them? Am happy to use other brands as long as they will work with the existing derailleurs. Have looked at the rene Herse triples, but they are very expensive and not sure they will work with the derailleurs. Would this Velo Orange one work (it looks VERY tempting)?



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Old 07-24-20, 09:22 PM
  #30  
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It is clear you need a new middle chainring, very odd wear pattern of some teeth being more worn down than others.

I am not sure what your bolt circle diameter is. I assume 110mm but you should check.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-bcd.html

How much do you want to spend? You could just buy the rings you need or a cheap crankset if you wanted to go low budget. You should easily be able to find a replacement chainring in the 20 something price range for the middle, it might lack the pins and ramps but it would work. Or you can go high budget too.

If you change cranksets, you might need a different bottom bracket to get correct spindle length for your chainline.
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Old 07-25-20, 12:30 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
It is clear you need a new middle chainring, very odd wear pattern of some teeth being more worn down than others....

"...In addition to the ramps and pins, modern chainrings designed for derailer use often have the teeth in the area adjacent to the ramps cut with shorter peaks than the other teeth, again to facilitate upshifts..."

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/images/ramps-pins.jpg

"...most newer rings have teeth that do not all look the same. While they are spaced at a consistent interval (to match your chain’s pitch), the heights and profiles can differ significantly. Depending on what is done to the teeth, the shaping can aid in shifting up-and-on-to the big ring, and also accurately dumping down to the small ring..."

https://www.slowtwitch.com/articles/...ks_intro_2.jpg



those rings don't look that bad, and a closer look at the cassette doesn't show that much wear either.
how 'bout just clean it all up, check the chain for wear, lube & ride.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e69aae9ac.jpeg

Last edited by saddlesores; 07-25-20 at 12:45 AM. Reason: stupid spill czech
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Old 07-25-20, 04:33 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by koenbro View Post
SO I ended up buying the bike, and got front racks with it as well as some panniers. From the S/N It appears to be from 1994. Has a 7 speed 11-28 cassette, and a 45-36-20 triple in the front, pretty worn-out. The group set appears to be Deore LX. The tires are Conti TopTouring 2000 (says 700cx32, but I measure them at 28mm wide).

I am completely new at this and would like to use this bike to learn basic-intermediate bike mechanic and building skills. I have a pretty well set up home garage shop, can TIG weld, have a CNC (for aluminum), but will need to buy a few dedicated bike tools. Already got a Park inflator, and like it (generally I prefer to buy the last tool first). Also bought “Zinn and the Art of Road Bike Maintenance” and Mel Allwood’s “Total Bike Maintenance Book”, if that makes any difference.

I will use this thread to document the build and ask a million questions, and THANK YOU to all the replies above.

First questions:
What crank extractor tool do I need and what cassette extractor?

Thank you all.





Congratulations! The rear cog needs to be swapped out to an 11-36 and you’ll want a 20T for your granny gear to get a low. Since touring bikes tend to be heavily loaded and you may face steep climbs in mountain country, you’ll be thankful to be able to make short work of most steep inclines.
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Old 07-26-20, 06:33 AM
  #33  
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I also think the middle ring looks fine. The "missing teeth" are designed that way. There seems to be very little normal wear on it.

And I agree that if the BB spindle rotates freely without play, no need to pull it. Cranks must be pulled to check it correctly, so you haven't wasted any effort. If I were heading off on a year-long expedition, I'd want a new one in there. Those are very robust units. Typical MTBF (mean time between failures) for me is over 20K miles. Judging from the lack of wear on the chainrings, there may be fewer than 5K miles on it.

Check the specs on the rear derailleur before you change the gear ratio by more than a couple of teeth. Here's a guide: https://www.cyclecycle.info/bicycle-...ar-derailleurs
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Old 07-26-20, 05:12 PM
  #34  
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I am now forced to suspend the build for about a week, as I am waiting the delivery of parts and tools. In the meantime I am learning about cranks, cogs, BBs, and other things.

Originally Posted by NormanF View Post
Congratulations! The rear cog needs to be swapped out to an 11-36 and you’ll want a 20T for your granny gear to get a low. Since touring bikes tend to be heavily loaded and you may face steep climbs in mountain country, you’ll be thankful to be able to make short work of most steep inclines.
I believe 24T is the smallest cog that goes on a 74mm BCD. The factory crank is 26-26-46, and I have rehabbed that, but have an order in for a new crankset that expands it up to 48 and down to 24. Hopefully will not mess up the front derailleur's operation.

Originally Posted by saddlesores View Post
"...In addition to the ramps and pins, modern chainrings designed for derailer use often have the teeth in the area adjacent to the ramps cut with shorter peaks than the other teeth, again to facilitate upshifts..."

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/images/ramps-pins.jpg

"...most newer rings have teeth that do not all look the same. While they are spaced at a consistent interval (to match your chain’s pitch), the heights and profiles can differ significantly. Depending on what is done to the teeth, the shaping can aid in shifting up-and-on-to the big ring, and also accurately dumping down to the small ring..."

https://www.slowtwitch.com/articles/...ks_intro_2.jpg



those rings don't look that bad, and a closer look at the cassette doesn't show that much wear either.
how 'bout just clean it all up, check the chain for wear, lube & ride.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e69aae9ac.jpeg
That was super helpful. I was amazed to learn about the various details and nuances that go into crank manufacturing and what it takes to combine them for smooth transition of the chain.


Originally Posted by andrewclaus View Post
I also think the middle ring looks fine. The "missing teeth" are designed that way. There seems to be very little normal wear on it.

And I agree that if the BB spindle rotates freely without play, no need to pull it. Cranks must be pulled to check it correctly, so you haven't wasted any effort. If I were heading off on a year-long expedition, I'd want a new one in there. Those are very robust units. Typical MTBF (mean time between failures) for me is over 20K miles. Judging from the lack of wear on the chainrings, there may be fewer than 5K miles on it.

Check the specs on the rear derailleur before you change the gear ratio by more than a couple of teeth. Here's a guide: https://www.cyclecycle.info/bicycle-...ar-derailleurs
I have an order in for a new 11-30T cassette and hope the rear derailleur will operate the same. If everything operates well I will end up having 21-116 gear inches (the stock setup is 25-112" and I thought I can improve on that a tiny little bit, hopefully without having the replace the derrailleurs).
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Old 07-26-20, 05:18 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Doug64 View Post
I disagree with not taking the time to grease the bearings. LX hubs are well sealed, but they are not impervious to water. I run LX and XT hubs on our touring bikes, and lube them before starting a tour, which has been annually for the last 15 years. At least do the lubrication work before you take the bike on a tour. Most of my tours are multi-month tours, and I don't want to spend time fixing things in the middle of a tour, when trouble can be avoided by some simple pre-trip preventative maintenance.

You do not know anything about the bike you just bought. The previous owner could have used a pressure washer to clean the bike before the sale. I would tear bike completely down and clean, check and lube everything. Then you know what you have. But that is just me.

Headset bearings can cause problems.
[[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49807693746_52d8b22328_b.jpg
+ 1 on this. An old bike like this needs to be overhauled and consumables replaced.
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Old 07-26-20, 05:27 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by koenbro View Post
I am now forced to suspend the build for about a week, as I am waiting the delivery of parts and tools. In the meantime I am learning about cranks, cogs, BBs, and other things.



I believe 24T is the smallest cog that goes on a 74mm BCD. The factory crank is 26-26-46, and I have rehabbed that, but have an order in for a new crankset that expands it up to 48 and down to 24. Hopefully will not mess up the front derailleur's operation.



That was super helpful. I was amazed to learn about the various details and nuances that go into crank manufacturing and what it takes to combine them for smooth transition of the chain.




I have an order in for a new 11-30T cassette and hope the rear derailleur will operate the same. If everything operates well I will end up having 21-116 gear inches (the stock setup is 25-112" and I thought I can improve on that a tiny little bit, hopefully without having the replace the derrailleurs).
The VO triple is beautiful. Yeah 24 is as small as you can go on a 74 bcd crank. The Sugino XD600 is also a fine 110/74 bcd triple.

The FD should work with this set up but it may take some tweaking. A chain catcher can be useful if you have problems dropping the chain on the inside

https://www.rei.com/product/670913/t...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

The RD should be able to go to 30. You can look up the gear capacity to double check but 30 is not a tall order for a touring derailleur.

If looking for new cantilevers, it's tought to beat the Tektro CR 720s on a price/performance basis.

Last edited by bikemig; 07-26-20 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 07-26-20, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by koenbro View Post
I am now forced to suspend the build for about a week, as I am waiting the delivery of parts and tools. In the meantime I am learning about cranks, cogs, BBs, and other things.

I have an order in for a new 11-30T cassette and hope the rear derailleur will operate the same. If everything operates well I will end up having 21-116 gear inches (the stock setup is 25-112" and I thought I can improve on that a tiny little bit, hopefully without having the replace the derrailleurs).
Your LX rear derailleur would have handled an 11-34 cassette (if you can find one) without any problems. That would have brought your low gear down to a little less than 19 GI. Our daughter tours with a 46/36/24 crank, and an 11-34 cassette. She has 26" wheels so it is a little lower, and she does really well with it. You could have easily replaced the 46 with a 24 T chain wheel. Sorry, this is not much help at this stage of your restoration, but it may help if you want to go for a little lower gearing in the future.

Last edited by Doug64; 07-26-20 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 07-26-20, 08:19 PM
  #38  
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Quick question: If I want to convert to 650B wheels, will the stock cantilever brakes work? Should I order a pair of Paul Comp Motolites? Will those work? Ideally I would like the options to swap out the 700c wheels for 650B. Thanks.
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Old 07-26-20, 09:47 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by koenbro View Post
Quick question: If I want to convert to 650B wheels, will the stock cantilever brakes work? Should I order a pair of Paul Comp Motolites? Will those work? Ideally I would like the options to swap out the 700c wheels for 650B. Thanks.
forums are a great place to get information, and to help others.

but at a certain point, you really need to learn how to do research.
try the search function, try the googles.
it's best to come prepared, show some initiative.
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Old 07-26-20, 10:22 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by saddlesores View Post
forums are a great place to get information, and to help others.

but at a certain point, you really need to learn how to do research.
try the search function, try the googles.
it's best to come prepared, show some initiative.

I decided to keep it simple and stick with 700c. Thank you.
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Old 07-27-20, 07:49 AM
  #41  
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Yes, 24 is the smallest you can put on a 74mm BCD crank.

On my derailleur touring bikes, I run a 11-32 rear cassette and a 24T granny gear (smallest chainring) on the crankset. Difference between 30 and 32T sprocket is small, so your lowest gear will not be that much higher than on my derailleur touring bikes. Since you already ordered the 30T, use it when it comes. But for steep uphills if you can go with a 32t or larger, you will be happier.

By increasing the size of your biggest chainring and biggest sprocket in back, your chain will be a few links too short. Assuming you are putting a new chain on it, do not cut the chain until you have the new cassette and new big ring installed. Keep the extra links you cut off, someday you might want a couple more links.
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Old 07-27-20, 08:10 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
By increasing the size of your biggest chainring and biggest sprocket in back, your chain will be a few links too short. Assuming you are putting a new chain on it, do not cut the chain until you have the new cassette and new big ring installed. Keep the extra links you cut off, someday you might want a couple more links.
Great suggestion, thank you!
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Old 07-27-20, 04:50 PM
  #43  
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While waiting for various tools, I pulled the trigger on various parts. This also summarizes my build.
  1. Paul Engineering touring cantilever brakes
  2. Wheels:
    • FRONT. SonDeluxe hub, Pacenti Brevet 700c rims, Sapim Laser spokes.
    • REAR. Shimano 105 hub, Pacenti Brevet + Sapim Laser.
  3. MKS Sylvan Touring pedals with toe clips
  4. Velo Orange triple crankset
  5. Velo Orange BB
  6. Randonneur handlebar from VO; alternative would be Rene Herse
  7. Kalloy Adjustable stem. NOt really sure about this, does anyone have any top quality recommendations?
  8. Berthoud open saddle from Rene Herse; already arrived.
  9. Thinking tires, not decided yet. Leaning towards 42mm Hurricane Ridges in reinforced casing. Any alternative recommendations?

Last edited by koenbro; 07-27-20 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 07-27-20, 05:59 PM
  #44  
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I would have picked the Son28 for the higher wattage rating, but you researched it so I suspect you have your reasons.

Are your frame rear dropouts spaced at 130mm or 135mm? The 105 hub I believe is spaced at 130mm.

I am using the older style steel axle M756 version of Shimano XT hubs on a couple bikes that have dropout spacing at 135mm. Not sure if the steel axle hubs are still available in the rim brake version, but if you got the disc hubs you could use them in other frames in the future if you get a disc bike. A friend of mine three years ago got a rim brake dynohub wheel and one year ago he bought a new bike with disc brakes, could not move the dynohub wheel to it.

That said, it is possible that in a few years the newer frames might need a through axle, so perhaps buying disc capable now in anticipation of the future would not be practical.
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Old 07-28-20, 10:14 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I would have picked the Son28 for the higher wattage rating, but you researched it so I suspect you have your reasons.

Are your frame rear dropouts spaced at 130mm or 135mm? The 105 hub I believe is spaced at 130mm.

I am using the older style steel axle M756 version of Shimano XT hubs on a couple bikes that have dropout spacing at 135mm. Not sure if the steel axle hubs are still available in the rim brake version, but if you got the disc hubs you could use them in other frames in the future if you get a disc bike. A friend of mine three years ago got a rim brake dynohub wheel and one year ago he bought a new bike with disc brakes, could not move the dynohub wheel to it.

That said, it is possible that in a few years the newer frames might need a through axle, so perhaps buying disc capable now in anticipation of the future would not be practical.

I thought that Son28 and SonDeluxe have the same output (3 Watts at 6 Volts), but maybe I am missing something; they do mention the output curve ramping up differently . Can you pls clarify what you mean by different/higher output? Either way, I plan to add a converter/charger to power a GPS and or cell phone during the day. Haven't settled yet, but am aware of Busch + Muller USB Werk or e-Werk. Do you or any one know of other solutions to connect the dynamo hub to cell phones and GPS units?

As for the Shimano 105 hub, you touched on my biggest worry regarding the wheelset order. I was pretty comfortable with the rest of the order, even the somewhat unusual 32 soke config that I requested instead of 36, but the rear hub was a big question. I hope the 105 is at 130mm, because that is what the inside opening of my rear fork is.
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Old 07-28-20, 11:40 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by koenbro View Post
I thought that Son28 and SonDeluxe have the same output (3 Watts at 6 Volts), but maybe I am missing something; they do mention the output curve ramping up differently . Can you pls clarify what you mean by different/higher output? Either way, I plan to add a converter/charger to power a GPS and or cell phone during the day. Haven't settled yet, but am aware of Busch + Muller USB Werk or e-Werk. Do you or any one know of other solutions to connect the dynamo hub to cell phones and GPS units?

As for the Shimano 105 hub, you touched on my biggest worry regarding the wheelset order. I was pretty comfortable with the rest of the order, even the somewhat unusual 32 soke config that I requested instead of 36, but the rear hub was a big question. I hope the 105 is at 130mm, because that is what the inside opening of my rear fork is.
I pasted this:
But if you ever want to use a charger to keep you phone or GPS charged on tour, you'll get better performance at low speeds with the SON28.
from: https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt.php

There are lots of ways to turn dynohub power into power for GPS, etc. When touring, I run my dynohub power into a Sinewave Revolution to produce USB power. There are several other competitors to the Sinewave too. My particular Garmin does not play well with a Sinewave directly without a pass through cache battery in the circuit. So, I send my dynohub power to the Sinewave, then the USB power from the sinewave goes into my pass through cache battery. And then I draw power from that battery to feed into my GPS to charge it. I can charge my GPS while I am rolling and my GPS functions while being charged. I think the B&M werk includes a pass through cache battery, and I think the Forumslader (spell?) also includes a battery, but the Sinewave does not.

The 105 is 130mm. I did not know if your frame was 130 or 135mm, often touring frames are designed at 135mm because touring bikes often use mountain bike drivetrains for lower gearing. I suspected that the 520 might be 135mm for that reason, but if you know it is 130mm, you are set. It used to be that 130mm was considered a road size and 135mm was a mountain bike size.

With a steel frame, you can put a wheel in the frame that is 5 or 6mm off without a problem, other than the wheel does not drop right in. I am using a 135mm hub in my rando bike frame that is 130mm. And I am running a 126mm hub in my vintage road bike with a 120mm frame. Thus, it is not that big of a consideration, other than the wheel dropping right it without having to work at it if you have the right size.

The last half of my five week bike tour last summer, I was self sufficient on power from my dynohub. I wrote up a description of what I use and why on a different forum. Some of my electronic device choices are a bit esoteric, so I am not saying it is the right way, just what works well for me. The link to that write up is at this link:
Electrics that I use for bike touring - what works for me.
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Old 07-28-20, 03:34 PM
  #47  
koenbro
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I pasted this:
But if you ever want to use a charger to keep you phone or GPS charged on tour, you'll get better performance at low speeds with the SON28.
from: https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt.php

There are lots of ways to turn dynohub power into power for GPS, etc. When touring, I run my dynohub power into a Sinewave Revolution to produce USB power. There are several other competitors to the Sinewave too. My particular Garmin does not play well with a Sinewave directly without a pass through cache battery in the circuit. So, I send my dynohub power to the Sinewave, then the USB power from the sinewave goes into my pass through cache battery. And then I draw power from that battery to feed into my GPS to charge it. I can charge my GPS while I am rolling and my GPS functions while being charged. I think the B&M werk includes a pass through cache battery, and I think the Forumslader (spell?) also includes a battery, but the Sinewave does not.

The 105 is 130mm. I did not know if your frame was 130 or 135mm, often touring frames are designed at 135mm because touring bikes often use mountain bike drivetrains for lower gearing. I suspected that the 520 might be 135mm for that reason, but if you know it is 130mm, you are set. It used to be that 130mm was considered a road size and 135mm was a mountain bike size.

With a steel frame, you can put a wheel in the frame that is 5 or 6mm off without a problem, other than the wheel does not drop right in. I am using a 135mm hub in my rando bike frame that is 130mm. And I am running a 126mm hub in my vintage road bike with a 120mm frame. Thus, it is not that big of a consideration, other than the wheel dropping right it without having to work at it if you have the right size.

The last half of my five week bike tour last summer, I was self sufficient on power from my dynohub. I wrote up a description of what I use and why on a different forum. Some of my electronic device choices are a bit esoteric, so I am not saying it is the right way, just what works well for me. The link to that write up is at this link:
Electrics that I use for bike touring - what works for me.

Tourist in MSN I stand corrected. The Son28 is indeed better suited to my needs (specifically charging stuff during the day), and I missed that part when reading about them. Thank you for pointing it out. I have called the wheelbuilder and asked them to replace the front hub. Seems like it's the same price.
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Old 07-28-20, 04:54 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by koenbro View Post
@Tourist in MSN I stand corrected. The Son28 is indeed better suited to my needs (specifically charging stuff during the day), and I missed that part when reading about them. Thank you for pointing it out. I have called the wheelbuilder and asked them to replace the front hub. Seems like it's the same price.
For touring where you are charging up batteries, more output is better. But for randonneuring you are probably relying on hub power for lighting (and maybe battery backup), and when LED lights came out, people that were not in Germany and had a choice of equipment started using a lower output hub to try to get a bit less drag. Then later, Schmidt changed the name of the hub.

My SP hub, I can't feel any drag from the hub with light on or off, but if you are riding against the clock, even an imperceptible difference in drag can be something to avoid. SON and SP hubs are quite similar for drag levels.

Several years old, but good discussion of dynohubs.
https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/defa...ub-dynamos.pdf

A few years old, but good discussion of USB chargers. What I called a pass through cache battery, they call it a buffer battery. There are some newer chargers out now that are not covered, but it gives a good background on chargers and some good graphs of output, etc.
https://translate.google.com/transla...nft.de%2F21%2F
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Old 07-28-20, 06:07 PM
  #49  
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Thank you, I will have to digest all the info in those links.

Is the difference in drag between the Son28 and the Deluxe appreciable?
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Old 07-28-20, 06:38 PM
  #50  
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Leaning towards 42mm Hurricane Ridges in reinforced casing. Any alternative recommendations?
​​​​​​​



Planning All off-road gravel? no paved riding at all?

a paved road tour , but you keep on going past the end of the paved highway tire is These :

https://www.continental-tires.com/bi...contact-travel






...
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