Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Touring
Reload this Page >

Why isn't touring just called bikepacking?

Notices
Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

Why isn't touring just called bikepacking?

Old 08-30-20, 07:30 PM
  #51  
skookum
cyclotourist
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: calgary, canada
Posts: 1,343
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked 180 Times in 112 Posts
In the first pic he appears to have panniers. So bicycle touring. In the second, he doesn't, so bike packing.
30 years ahead of his time, he was.
skookum is offline  
Old 08-30-20, 10:23 PM
  #52  
alan s 
Senior Member
 
alan s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 6,938
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1477 Post(s)
Liked 171 Times in 114 Posts
It’s simple. Bike tourers smoke pipes. Bikepackers smoke blunts.
alan s is offline  
Likes For alan s:
Old 08-31-20, 03:54 AM
  #53  
JaccoW
Overdoing projects
 
JaccoW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Posts: 1,948

Bikes: Batavus Randonneur GL, Gazelle Orange Excellent, Gazelle Super Licht, Gazelle Grand Tourist, Gazelle Lausanne, Gazelle Tandem, Koga-Miyata SilverAce, Koga-Miyata WorldTraveller

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 644 Post(s)
Liked 622 Times in 397 Posts
Originally Posted by tcs View Post
My bicycling literature from the 1930s thru the 1970s uses the term 'cycletouring' [...] That word is obsolete now and you seldom see it.
Which is an absolute shame. I like my Specialités T.A. 'Cyclotouriste' cranks and they fit with the modern compact double or 1x setup.
JaccoW is offline  
Old 08-31-20, 11:18 AM
  #54  
sjanzeir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 636

Bikes: 1990 Raleigh Flyer; 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 15"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 17.5"); 2019 Dahon Mu D9

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 275 Post(s)
Liked 135 Times in 69 Posts
Because "touring" sounds cooler (read: showier and more pretentious.) It signals that you've "arrived," and now you're "giving back" by hugging some trees, reducing your environmental footprint, and connecting with the honest, hard-working indigenous people of... wherever.

Bikepacking is a way of pretending that that you're "on a journey of self discovery" and "uniting the world" and all that business - which is a lofty claim, given that most "evil" multinational corporations shamelessly make the exact same claim.

[Notifications turned off for this thread]
sjanzeir is offline  
Likes For sjanzeir:
Old 08-31-20, 01:15 PM
  #55  
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 6,342

Bikes: 1980 Mike Melton, 1982 Stumpjumper, 1982 Santana, 1984 Alex Moulton AM, 2008 BikeFriday tikit T-11, 2010 Dawes Briercliffe, 2017 Dahon Curl i5, 2019 Surly ½DT14

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 758 Post(s)
Liked 227 Times in 158 Posts
Originally Posted by skookum View Post
In the first pic he appears to have panniers. So bicycle touring. In the second, he doesn't, so bike packing.
A valid and pertinent comment, but I asked what the cyclists in those historical pictures would themselves at the time would have said they were doing, not what anyone would (re)define it as today.

I see this fellow riding on gravel with his dunnage strapped behind his saddle. In 1967 Bicycling! magazine termed this 'touring'.




I also note that under your definition, two cyclists riding together on the same overnight trip could be doing two different things, based on the difference between their bags. Not wrong, but I could see it getting awkward and complicated.

Because you know I'm all about the bags,
'Bout the bags, no bike
I'm all 'bout the bags, 'bout the bags, no trip
I'm all 'bout the bags, 'bout the bags, no memories
I'm all 'bout the bags, 'bout the bags


And we'll need another word for what this fellow, on a long-distance trip with neither seat bag nor panniers, is doing:

tcs is offline  
Likes For tcs:
Old 08-31-20, 01:38 PM
  #56  
burritos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 182
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked 74 Times in 47 Posts
Does it count if my wife drives ahead and meets me with change of clothes at nice hotels? Bikeglamping?
burritos is offline  
Likes For burritos:
Old 08-31-20, 07:09 PM
  #57  
Steve B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South shore, L.I., NY
Posts: 4,773

Bikes: Flyxii FR322, Cannondale Topstone, Miyata City Liner, Specialized Chisel

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1816 Post(s)
Liked 528 Times in 351 Posts
Originally Posted by burritos View Post
Does it count if my wife drives ahead and meets me with change of clothes at nice hotels? Bikeglamping?
Thats already been defined as “credit card touring”.
Steve B. is offline  
Likes For Steve B.:
Old 08-31-20, 08:15 PM
  #58  
HerrKaLeun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,883

Bikes: Giant Toughroad SLR1 and Motobecane Sturgis NX

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 883 Post(s)
Liked 205 Times in 154 Posts
To me "tour" implies a longer ride, possibly over night or even a year. But nothing implies off or on road or how the luggage is attached. There also is no implications regarding drops or flatbar bike. I also could creditcard tour or hire a sag van and only have water and no bags. Still would be touring. Hell, the Tour de France is a long tour and no one has panniers.

"Bikepack" implies a bag attached to the bike directly as opposed to panniers or some other framing. Nothing in there says on or offroad, drop or flatbar.
HerrKaLeun is offline  
Old 08-31-20, 08:18 PM
  #59  
MaxKatt
TeeOhPea 2tha DeeOhGee
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Everywhere, All the time.
Posts: 102

Bikes: Several

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked 47 Times in 23 Posts
I hope we can all at least agree both touring and bike-packing are very different from the growing velo-camping movement.
MaxKatt is offline  
Old 08-31-20, 08:27 PM
  #60  
wgscott
Occam's Rotor
 
wgscott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,870
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 1,963 Times in 973 Posts
wgscott is offline  
Old 09-01-20, 08:38 AM
  #61  
ClydeClydeson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Liked 148 Times in 108 Posts
'Bikepacking' is a portmanteau of bike & backpacking. In my opinion, bikepacking is generally done on trails where one might go backpacking, and the bags for bikepacking are sort of like backpacks for the bike.

Also, any time one is riding at a casual pace to enjoy scenery, especially when extending rides or trips over multiple days, one is 'bicycle touring'.

Within that you could either be 'loaded touring' (carrying living supplies on the bike, usually with racks and panniers) or bikepacking (generally more off-road riding, usually carrying living supplies with frame mounted bags instead of panniers). Then there is supported touring (a motor vehicle carries camping and living supplies between stops, minimal gear carried on the bike), and credit card touring (carrying minimal supplies and paying for indoor sleeping accommodations like hotels or hostels),
ClydeClydeson is offline  
Old 09-01-20, 09:25 AM
  #62  
saddlesores
Senior Member
 
saddlesores's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bangkok...and....Hainan
Posts: 3,233

Bikes: inferior steel....and....noodly aluminium

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 838 Post(s)
Liked 132 Times in 88 Posts
it's all really quite simple really. really.

"bikepacking" means whatever it needs to mean in order for merchandisers to convince the marks they need to purchase more stuff now.
saddlesores is offline  
Likes For saddlesores:
Old 09-01-20, 11:26 AM
  #63  
str
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Universe Spain
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Liked 81 Times in 38 Posts
Originally Posted by saddlesores View Post
it's all really quite simple really. really.

"bikepacking" means whatever it needs to mean in order for merchandisers to convince the marks they need to purchase more stuff now.
and that does not apply to tourers?
str is offline  
Old 09-01-20, 11:49 AM
  #64  
burritos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 182
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked 74 Times in 47 Posts
Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
Thats already been defined as “credit card touring”.
Wonder if they consulted my wife when they coined that term.
burritos is offline  
Old 09-01-20, 12:56 PM
  #65  
saddlesores
Senior Member
 
saddlesores's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bangkok...and....Hainan
Posts: 3,233

Bikes: inferior steel....and....noodly aluminium

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 838 Post(s)
Liked 132 Times in 88 Posts
Originally Posted by str View Post
and that does not apply to tourers?
well, of course not! ....as long as they're doing it the way i'm doing it.

otherwise they're doing it wrong.
saddlesores is offline  
Likes For saddlesores:
Old 09-01-20, 03:04 PM
  #66  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 7,761

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, Perfekt 3 Speed -age unknown, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2080 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 390 Times in 329 Posts
Originally Posted by tcs View Post
...

Great photo, it reminds me that I used to ride without bike shorts, without bike shoes, without helmet, etc. Chromed steel spoke protector, I suspect that is a 5 speed cluster. I have not seen a Huret Allvit rear derailleur in years.

Touring equipment has really changed a lot in the past half century.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 09-01-20, 10:11 PM
  #67  
F308
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 4 Posts
The first tours I did close to 50 years ago (3-speeds, stuff tied on with twine...) as opposed to what I did a few weeks ago (stayed in hotels on a bike I could only have dreamed about) may look different and require different terminology, but the joy and the freedom remain unchanged.

Other things that never change are the incredibly intense memories, fascinating encounters and continual bewilderment that so few people ever enjoy this amazing yet simple possibility.

If you have a few days and the weather doesn't look so terrible, then just get out. You'll never have perfect equipment, but pretty good equipment is adequate. As long as my body holds out, I'll be out there.
F308 is offline  
Old 09-01-20, 10:14 PM
  #68  
MarcusT
Senior Member
 
MarcusT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: NE Italy
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 463 Post(s)
Liked 191 Times in 116 Posts
Originally Posted by str View Post
what is bike touring?

riding 100% on tarmac eating motorised traffic with 70L panniers and 28mm tires?

You mean I've been doing it wrong all these years?
I ride roads with sparse traffic, many times gravel or cow paths, with 42mm tires, and panniers only hold 60L
I'm going to have to rethink my whole bike plan

But It still won't be "bike packing"
MarcusT is offline  
Likes For MarcusT:
Old 09-02-20, 12:50 AM
  #69  
str
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Universe Spain
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Liked 81 Times in 38 Posts
Originally Posted by MarcusT View Post
You mean I've been doing it wrong all these years?
I ride roads with sparse traffic, many times gravel or cow paths, with 42mm tires, and panniers only hold 60L
I'm going to have to rethink my whole bike plan

But It still won't be "bike packing"
no, you won't, since your earring a 60L hotel on your bike

to me its all the same, whatever the definition is, I don't understand why people need categories. pack stuff on your bike, go out, enjoy nature, its cycling, breath fresh air.

the only thing I don't get is when people cycle tarmac roads filled with motorised traffic.
str is offline  
Old 09-02-20, 12:52 AM
  #70  
str
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Universe Spain
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Liked 81 Times in 38 Posts
Originally Posted by wgscott View Post

)) thinking in panniers how many litters this would be? 70L?
str is offline  
Old 09-02-20, 04:15 AM
  #71  
saddlesores
Senior Member
 
saddlesores's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bangkok...and....Hainan
Posts: 3,233

Bikes: inferior steel....and....noodly aluminium

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 838 Post(s)
Liked 132 Times in 88 Posts
Originally Posted by str View Post
)) thinking in panniers how many litters this would be? 70L?
irrelevant!

the vehicle, although fully human-powered, has THREE wheels.

the human if using panniers would be engaged in TRIcycle-touring,
or if using frame bags and packs, the activity would be "Troikapacking."

however, the human pictured has gone beyond all reason and is engaging in TROIS-glamping!

Last edited by saddlesores; 09-02-20 at 05:15 AM. Reason: stupid, stupid aotu-correct!
saddlesores is offline  
Likes For saddlesores:
Old 09-02-20, 07:02 AM
  #72  
staehpj1 
Senior Member
 
staehpj1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 9,844
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 440 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 77 Posts
Different strokes, but I am inclined to call any of the incarnations of overnight or longer rides bike touring. I don't call day rides touring. I don't call going somewhere and doing day rides from a base camp touring, I won't get too wound up if others use different terms or consider day rides touring though.

I actually kind of like the term cycle touring or even bicycle touring and often actually use the latter when speaking to folks who might otherwise assume I am talking about a motorcycle.

If I were 30 years younger I might call it all bikepacking.
__________________
Check out my profile, articles, and trip journals at:
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/staehpj1
staehpj1 is offline  
Old 09-02-20, 09:40 AM
  #73  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 23,585

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, an orange one and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3897 Post(s)
Liked 1,325 Times in 820 Posts
Originally Posted by str View Post
to me its all the same, whatever the definition is, I don't understand why people need categories. pack stuff on your bike, go out, enjoy nature, its cycling, breath fresh air.
Yes, touring is “touring” but there are different ways to do it and places to ride in. Modern bikepacking gear was introduced (perhaps “reintroduced”) by Revelate Design to fix a problem. Touring on mountain bike trails and rocky four wheel drive roads using a mountain bike isn’t amenable to racks and panniers. Mountain bikes have become race or play bicycles and generally don’t have rack mounts so if you are going to carry gear, you need a different kind of bag to do so. The other alternative is to pull a trailer which is worse than panniers.

”Bikepacking” implies a different kind of touring than road touring. To call it all bikepacking is equivalent to calling all bicycles “10 speeds” or saying that “it’s just a bicycle” when talking about the myriad of different bicycle types. While it’s possible to use a road racing bike for mountain biking, most people would find more enjoyment in using a bike that was designed for the purpose.

Yes, you can use bikepacking gear on a road bike but it’s a really crappy way to carry gear if you don’t need the clearance to ride over rocks. The load to too high. Even on a mountain bike, the bikepacking gear makes the bike a bit squirrelly.

the only thing I don't get is when people cycle tarmac roads filled with motorised traffic.
Where else are you going to ride? Honestly, I’d rather ride a tarmac road with traffic over a gravel road with even marginal traffic. I’ve done up to 1500 mile tours. Some were a mix of dirt roads, tow paths, and paved roads. Some...probably most...have been almost 100% pavement. Some have even had parts on the shoulders of interstate highways. It’s not like I can ride up to 1500 miles only on bike paths here in the US.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.

Last edited by cyccommute; 09-02-20 at 09:45 AM.
cyccommute is offline  
Likes For cyccommute:
Old 09-02-20, 10:31 AM
  #74  
str
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Universe Spain
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Liked 81 Times in 38 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Yes, touring is “touring” but there are different ways to do it and places to ride in. Modern bikepacking gear was introduced (perhaps “reintroduced”) by Revelate Design to fix a problem. Touring on mountain bike trails and rocky four wheel drive roads using a mountain bike isn’t amenable to racks and panniers. Mountain bikes have become race or play bicycles and generally don’t have rack mounts so if you are going to carry gear, you need a different kind of bag to do so. The other alternative is to pull a trailer which is worse than panniers.

”Bikepacking” implies a different kind of touring than road touring. To call it all bikepacking is equivalent to calling all bicycles “10 speeds” or saying that “it’s just a bicycle” when talking about the myriad of different bicycle types. While it’s possible to use a road racing bike for mountain biking, most people would find more enjoyment in using a bike that was designed for the purpose.

Yes, you can use bikepacking gear on a road bike but it’s a really crappy way to carry gear if you don’t need the clearance to ride over rocks. The load to too high. Even on a mountain bike, the bikepacking gear makes the bike a bit squirrelly.



Where else are you going to ride? Honestly, I’d rather ride a tarmac road with traffic over a gravel road with even marginal traffic. I’ve done up to 1500 mile tours. Some were a mix of dirt roads, tow paths, and paved roads. Some...probably most...have been almost 100% pavement. Some have even had parts on the shoulders of interstate highways. It’s not like I can ride up to 1500 miles only on bike paths here in the US.

you have done 1500mile tours, wait, I have to transfer this into KM. so... it is 2400km, is that a lot? looks normal to me, nothing what a bike touring guy or some guy with some bags strapped onto the bike can't do. but please skip the traffic ;(). enjoy breathing fresh air and unspoiled nature.

paved roads is not nature.
str is offline  
Old 09-02-20, 10:40 AM
  #75  
str
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Universe Spain
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Liked 81 Times in 38 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Yes, touring is “touring” but there are different ways to do it and places to ride in. Modern bikepacking gear was introduced (perhaps “reintroduced”) by Revelate Design to fix a problem. Touring on mountain bike trails and rocky four wheel drive roads using a mountain bike isn’t amenable to racks and panniers. Mountain bikes have become race or play bicycles and generally don’t have rack mounts so if you are going to carry gear, you need a different kind of bag to do so. The other alternative is to pull a trailer which is worse than panniers.

”Bikepacking” implies a different kind of touring than road touring. To call it all bikepacking is equivalent to calling all bicycles “10 speeds” or saying that “it’s just a bicycle” when talking about the myriad of different bicycle types. While it’s possible to use a road racing bike for mountain biking, most people would find more enjoyment in using a bike that was designed for the purpose.

Yes, you can use bikepacking gear on a road bike but it’s a really crappy way to carry gear if you don’t need the clearance to ride over rocks. The load to too high. Even on a mountain bike, the bikepacking gear makes the bike a bit squirrelly.



Where else are you going to ride? Honestly, I’d rather ride a tarmac road with traffic over a gravel road with even marginal traffic. I’ve done up to 1500 mile tours. Some were a mix of dirt roads, tow paths, and paved roads. Some...probably most...have been almost 100% pavement. Some have even had parts on the shoulders of interstate highways. It’s not like I can ride up to 1500 miles only on bike paths here in the US.

""""most people would find more enjoyment in using a bike that was designed for the purpose."""""

do you talk fo a group of people, or only for yourself?


"""Yes, you can use bikepacking gear on a road bike but it’s a really crappy way to carry gear if you don’t need the clearance to ride over rocks."""

a road bike with Bikepacking gear? I thought we are talking about touring and bikepacking, no road bikes come in....... a road bike over rocks, of course not! a touring bike with full packed panniers over rocks? of course not!
a low trail geometry with 40-50mm tires over rocks! yes please! )
str is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.