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Fuji Touring Disc

Old 12-27-20, 09:00 PM
  #26  
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REI 1.1is a bit different on the brakes as it has cables running down to the disc that actuates the hydraulic cylinder. No Hydraulic lines.

You are lucky if you can find a Fuji Touring in your size. None available in my size. REI seems to have the ADV 1.1 in stock for shipment.

Originally Posted by Nyah View Post
The REI Coop ADV 1.1 has thru-axle and is built a little lighter than the Sutra. Downside is that it too comes with the wide rims. It's specced with hydraulic disc. Personally, I'd rather have mechanical disc. Nothing is un-upgradable though so, this is the bicycle that I recommend. Maybe there are thru-axle bicycles out there with the 19mm rims. Those are what I would compare the ADV 1.1 with and then decide.
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Old 12-28-20, 03:22 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by crandress View Post
Another reason I want a sturdy touring frame is I am quite heavy, so think solid and sturdy is good too for my weight. Want to make sure I have 36 spokes whatever I get. Not worried about having wider tires at all. I have options with thinner tires if I want it, just not with newer technology.
I was assuming average weight plus a bit extra weight for credit card touring. With the new information, disregard my earlier comment that you should avoid the heavier touring bikes, perhaps you would benefit from the weight capacity of the frame and wheels, plus the lower gearing that a touring bike offers.
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Old 12-28-20, 09:09 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by robow View Post
And to think that I once so respected your engineering/touring prowess (now shaking one's head with remorse)
I apologize for bringing shame on the high standards of Bikeforums, I hope I will eventually, over time, be forgiven for this error in my ways.
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Old 12-28-20, 09:59 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by crandress View Post
Those are fair points about the brakes and thru-axles. Admittedly since I have never had a bike with disc brakes, I would not have even thought about that.
The REI touring bike looks ideal. It has a few valuable upgrades over the Fuji including the thru-axle on the front (and I assume on the rear) plus Marathon touring tires. It also has TRP HY/RD hydraulic disc which have both the master and slave within the caliper. This provides the performance of hydraulic brakes without the potential issues related to hydraulic brake lines.

https://www.rei.com/product/122462/c...es-adv-11-bike
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Old 12-28-20, 10:24 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Nyah View Post
My recommendations stopped when I realized that there is a scam going with manufacturers enticing people with inexpensive bicycles. They put disc brakes on a bicycle that cheaply still uses QR-skewers. All the problems you read and hear about disc brakes are rooted in their use with the skewers. Thru-axle is the only way to get the care-free use out of disc brakes that newbies are expecting from them. I have one bicycle with disc brakes and feel lucky that it's also got thru-axles.
Originally Posted by Nyah View Post
Disc brakes without thru-axles are disappointment that lasts for the life of the bicycle.

Haha, my goodness.
You have 1 bike with disc brakes, its TA, yet you are sure all disc brake problems are rooted in the QR design? Wow.

My gravel bike has TA. It works fine and there is no rub.

2 mountain bikes we own, one for my wife and one for one of my kids, are QR disc. They both work fine and there is no rub. Both are seriously basic aluminum frames from Marin.
The wheels are rarely pulled because there is no need to pull em, but they reattach just fine and without issue each time for years now. No rub.
Shimano QRs are used that are internal cam, so maybe the higher clamping force helps?...or maybe QR disc isnt the end of the world like you seem to claim.

I do like that you claim Fuji and other brands are scamming buyers because QR is used. It isnt a scam when its clearly listed and/or shown. Its a budget focused decision for sure, just like the tires will generally be lower quality too. Everything is dont to meet a price point. It isnt a scam when its known though.
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Old 12-28-20, 10:40 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Haha, my goodness.
You have 1 bike with disc brakes, its TA, yet you are sure all disc brake problems are rooted in the QR design? Wow.

My gravel bike has TA. It works fine and there is no rub.

2 mountain bikes we own, one for my wife and one for one of my kids, are QR disc. They both work fine and there is no rub. Both are seriously basic aluminum frames from Marin.
The wheels are rarely pulled because there is no need to pull em, but they reattach just fine and without issue each time for years now. No rub.
Shimano QRs are used that are internal cam, so maybe the higher clamping force helps?...or maybe QR disc isnt the end of the world like you seem to claim.

I do like that you claim Fuji and other brands are scamming buyers because QR is used. It isnt a scam when its clearly listed and/or shown. Its a budget focused decision for sure, just like the tires will generally be lower quality too. Everything is dont to meet a price point. It isnt a scam when its known though.
There certainly nothing wrong with recommending an improved design such as thru-axles. It eliminates a common source of alignment problems when using disc brakes. Thru-axles combined with advanced hydraulic calipers makes disc brakes the optimum choice. There are plenty of poorly executed disc brake bikes with quick release axles. Not all, but many. New bikes that feature thru-axles are clearly a step forward from older designs that use quick release axles.
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Last edited by Barrettscv; 12-28-20 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 12-28-20, 10:55 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
There certainly nothing wrong with recommending an improved design such as thru-axles. It eliminates a common source of alignment problems when using disc brakes. Thru-axles combined with advanced hydraulic calipers makes disc brakes the optimum choice. There are plenty of poorly executed disc brake bikes with quick release axles. Not all, but many. New bikes that feature thru-axles are clearly a step forward from older designs that use quick release axles.
Of course there is nothing wrong with recommending thru axles. I wouldnt think twice is someone said- 'I find thru axles to be a better design because it helps ensure rotor alignment'.
What I was responding to were over the top claims that brands are scamming consumers, all disc brake problems are due to QR, TA is the only way to get care free use with disc, and that QR disc will be a continued disappointment for the life of the bike.

You do see the difference between recommending an improved design and what I responded to, right? I mean, its glaringly obvious.
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Old 12-28-20, 11:06 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Of course there is nothing wrong with recommending thru axles. I wouldnt think twice is someone said- 'I find thru axles to be a better design because it helps ensure rotor alignment'.
What I was responding to were over the top claims that brands are scamming consumers, all disc brake problems are due to QR, TA is the only way to get care free use with disc, and that QR disc will be a continued disappointment for the life of the bike.

You do see the difference between recommending an improved design and what I responded to, right? I mean, its glaringly obvious.
I and others rightfully observed the user issues relating to quick release axles when combined with disc brakes as a reasonable selection criteria.
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Last edited by Barrettscv; 12-28-20 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 12-28-20, 11:21 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
I and others rightfully observed the user issues relating to quick release axles when combined with disc brakes as a reasonable selection criteria.
Oh, so you dont get the difference between recommending an improved design and what I responded to. Not surprised.
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Old 12-28-20, 11:26 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by crandress View Post
I just prefer the geometry of a touring frame and a steel frame, but want to upgrade to disc brakes and more modern components. 9-10 speed
agree with you on that. Touring frames are designed to be comfortable and durable especially for heavier riders and fully loaded situations.

None of the points stated in this thread are relevant until OP gets a better understanding of which bike is going to fit him properly.

I do like more gears, but having to taking your hands off the handlebars to find the correct ratio constantly defeats the purpose. I don't want to sacrifice my friction shifters so I'll be sticking with my 5 speed freewheel for now. Its a good enough ratio spread for me to always be pedalling at the correct cadence.

Bar ends would be nice for extra hand grip placement.
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Old 12-28-20, 11:29 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Oh, so you dont get the difference between recommending an improved design and what I responded to. Not surprised.
Being a retro-grouch didn't provide the best recommendation before and being a grouch doesn't improve the quality of your discourse now.
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Old 12-28-20, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
Being a retro-grouch didn't provide the best recommendation before and being a grouch doesn't improve the quality of your discourse now.
. I suggest you passively ignore his comments if you don't agree with something he said and hope to catch him on a day when he is in a better mood and posting something helpful.
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Old 12-28-20, 11:35 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
Being a retro-grouch didn't provide the best recommendation before and being a grouch doesn't improve the quality of your discourse now.


Ill spell it out for you- I took issue with the over the top and extreme comments. Again, I wouldnt think twice to read someone recommend TA over QR because they feel TA aligns the rotor better. I took issue with the dramatic claims about QR,
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Old 12-28-20, 12:02 PM
  #39  
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Thanks, I appreciate all the comments guys. Still doing research and will hopefully be able to test some of these early spring unless I see a deal I can't pass up.
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Old 12-28-20, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post


Ill spell it out for you- I took issue with the over the top and extreme comments. Again, I wouldnt think twice to read someone recommend TA over QR because they feel TA aligns the rotor better. I took issue with the dramatic claims about QR,
So what's wrong with QR? Is TA or regular axles with bolts on each end better or more rigid? With or without disc brakes?
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Old 12-28-20, 01:15 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
So what's wrong with QR? Is TA or regular axles with bolts on each end better or more rigid? With or without disc brakes?
Quick release axles are more difficult to manufacture and install with sufficient precision. Not impossible, just more difficult. Thru-axles provide much more precise installation, and manufacturing variants are not an issue. Also, the 142mm dropout dimension provides a wider rear installation, this also improves the strength and precision of the assembly.
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Old 12-28-20, 02:10 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
So what's wrong with QR? Is TA or regular axles with bolts on each end better or more rigid? With or without disc brakes?
After reading this thread, why are you asking me what is wrong with QR?

- QR is fine for the vast majority of quality bikes, as far as Ive seen/experienced. There has long been internet chatter about QR not allowing the axle to be seated in the same place each time a wheel is attached to the frame or fork, and therefore rotor rub is created. In those instances, yeah it must be frustrating- for sure. A quality skewer that is internal cam has a higher clamping force and may help keep the wheel in the same place thru use(its debated whether a wheel moves at all thru use).
- TA helps reduce the chance that a rotor doesnt line up within the brake caliper. It reduces the chances for error and misalignment, basically.
- Bolt on hubs are not applicable to this discussion.
- A TA system is more rigid than a QR axle setup. 15mm for MTB vs12mm for road and gravel exists for multiple reasons, one being rigidity. Its more difficult to break a 15mm TA. And there is bigger than 15mm for MTB too.

To answer your last question, I dont know why anyone would use TA with rim brakes.
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Old 12-28-20, 03:09 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Nyah View Post
Disc brakes without thru-axles are disappointment that lasts for the life of the bicycle.
I've been satisfied with my Salsa Vaya touring bike for over 5 years now: it has disc brakes and quick release skewers (and the steel axle is still a stiff 10mm diameter).

In 2019, I went out of my way to find a disc brake, QR gravel bike. Wheel compatibility with my other bikes was key.

My mountain bike has had disc brakes and QR since before 2010. The wheels are solid even through harsh, rocky conditions. I'm confident wheels and hubs will be available for many more years, and I will be a grouch about it if the 'industry' discontinues commodity-rate disc-QR hub standards in the next decade.
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Old 12-28-20, 05:05 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
.... Also, the 142mm dropout dimension provides a wider rear installation, this also improves the strength and precision of the assembly.
My Lynskey has replaceable dropouts, it takes two M4 screws on each side to remove and replace dropouts. By swapping dropouts, my frame is either 135mm conventional quick release or 142mm through axle.

So, frame is not wider with a 142mm through axle, it is the same frame as a 135mm rear hub.

And when each dropout is attached with two M4 screws, I fail to see how through axle makes things that much stronger.

The frame I am talking about is this one:
https://lynskeyperformance.com/backroad-touring-frame/

Photo below from manufacturer website with through axle. And the frame in the photo has the flat mount for disc.



My Backroad has quick release and post mount for disc brake. The brake mount is attached with the three M6 screws in the chainstay.



I am not saying all frames use a few M4 screws to hold things together, but it does make the point that the through axle is only as strong as the rest of that part of the frame.

I have found that the rear part of the frame on all my quick release bikes is adequately strong for the purpose the bike was built for. My expedition bike has much stronger stays and dropouts than my rim brake road bike that was built to be light weight and only strong enough for the purpose.

I am not saying that there is any inherent problem with through axles, but I see them as a solution in search for a problem.

Only once did I work on a bike with a through axle, and that was on a trike that a friend owns. And I found it to be quite frustrating to get the wheel in the right place and installed. Some of that bad experience was because it was a trike I am sure, but so far I am not convinced.
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Old 12-28-20, 07:47 PM
  #45  
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and you know, all this detailed talk about qr vs thru axles still doesnt change the fact that Ive done some pretty cool trips on my qr disc bike, had the time of my life doing them, so in the end.....hey, it works.

at a certain point, there's stuff that has clear answers of what system works better for touring or biking in general, lets say about having properly low gearing for touring, but often there's stuff that works well enough for lots of people.
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Old 12-29-20, 01:27 AM
  #46  
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I'm waiting for the poster that lost / broke their thru axle and is trying to find the axle with the correct thread pitch to start / continue their tour.
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