freckles

Hi, I am looking a buying a bike friday NWT- ideally used (but unlikely) or buying new.

I've been dreaming about bike touring for ages and now am finally ready to really make plans vs just dreaming. I've toured once in my life- San Francisco to Los Angeles on a recumbent but went with an experienced friend who made it very easy.

I don't know much about bicycles specs having ridden a vintage Schwinn 3 speed, vintage English 3 speeds and now my beloved Workcycles Oma so a touring bicycle is a whole different animal. I did have a 10 speed when I was like, 10 yrs old and it was too large but I didn't care and still loved it. All bicycles were bought used and never "fitted" for me so this may be my first custom bicycle (unless I find a used one) and the idea of it is very exciting but overwhelming!

Bike Friday's website lists 3 trim levels- Weekend Warrior, Long Distance Upgrade and Adventure Travel Upgrade, plus another page of additional options- yikes!
Questions like riding style, handle bar style, brakes, gears- igh with derailleur or just derailleur(?), gear shifter are hard to answer.

Do want a stable ride that will have low gears for hills, quality dependable reliable parts that can also be found and repaired/replaced when needed. I've read bromptons have parts that aren't readily available and non standard.

For the price difference in trim levels, is it better to get the lower trim and switch out the gearing? Are the specs listed worth it for the medium/high trim levels?

your weight (bikes have weight limits)- 110 lbs with clothes/shoes, fairly fit, 40's

* how tall you are you- 5'2" tall, female, not long nor short limbed

* your budget- variable, like a deal but am willing to buy new (gulp)

* your riding experience- i ride every work day, rain or shine (mostly shine in Los Angeles), its a 20 minute bike ride each way and for errands. Not an aggressive rider, my Oma isn't aggressive. i would love to ride more but Los Angeles is more bike terror than friendly- so terrible because we have such great year round weather

* what you intend to use the bike for (eg touring, commuting, casual park riding, shopping, MTB-ing etc)- TOURING! short and longer tours- 2 days to 4 weeks. Shorter ones in the US and longer overseas, light camping mixed with credit card touring. No off roading but expect bumpy roads depending on the country.

* what country you are in, as countries tend to have different choices- i'm in Los Angeles, California USA

grayrest

The few times I've called Bike Friday, (I have a SatRDay) they've been very helpful over the phone and I imagine they'd be happy to talk through your options if you called.

For riding style, the question is mostly about riding position. Speed on a bicycle is determined mainly by air resistance so the more leaned over you are, the faster you go. The hip angle also affects glute engagement and power output. In short, people who are racing bikes ride in that position for good reasons. Since you're touring and whatnot, you'll want to be more upright but how much more upright is the question. Most touring bikes are designed to put the rider kind of in the middle between a race fit and the bolt upright position a cruiser or opa bike uses. It makes a significant difference in air resistance, both for speed and how much you'll be affected by the winds. Finally, your preferred position determines which saddle shape you're likely to prefer.

Handle bar style comes into play on longer rides. If you're not completely upright, you'll wind up carrying ~10-15% of your upper body weight on your arms and in particular your hands. Most people find it uncomfortable to have their hands in one position bearing weight for a long time. From personal experience, I don't really like riding a flat bar bike for more than about 2-2.5 hours and I swapped out the flatbars on my Birdy folding bike for a loop bar, which I find much more comfortable and can ride with indefinitely. With a drop bar, most people ride with their hands on the hoods (kind of like bullhorns) but you also have the option to ride on the tops closer to the center of the bar or go down to the drops if you're riding downhill or into the wind. I haven't tried something like their H-bars. That's in general, some people really prefer flat bars for everything and you might be one of them.

None of the NWT options come with an internal hub. The advantage of hubs is that they're lower maintenance. You usually just have to change the oil once or twice a year. This makes them popular on city/commuting bikes. The downside is that they're heavier and a bit less efficient at transmitting power than a maintained chain and derailleur setup. I've seen touring bikes set up with hubs and BF sells other bikes with them so they could probably set you up with one but I believe it tends to be more expensive. There aren't any IGH+derailleur options currently on the market. My SatRDay has one and the internal hub functions the way a front derailleur would on other bikes. Parts aren't available (except through Bike Friday, one of the reasons I had to call them) so I don't recommend getting one.

For shifter types, it's kind of a personal preference thing and I've never found it difficult to get used to riding with different types. Touring bikes tend to some with bar end shifters, which are mechanically simple and can continue to work in friction mode if the derailleur isn't perfectly lined up for some reason so they're reliable. The downside is that you have to take your hands off the bars to shift. Road bikes have really complicated brake levers that allow you to shift by pushing the brake lever sideways, which basically have the opposite tradeoff. Trigger shifters come from the mountain biking world and go with flat bars. They're a pair of triggers you push with your thumb, one for easier gears and the other for harder. When they're set up right, they work fine. I do my own maintenance and personally have trouble getting the derailleur adjusted so shifts to work reliably once the cable/housing are worn in so I'm not a huge fan but this is with the cheaper shimano shifters, haven't tried the more expensive ones.

Smaller wheels tend to naturally give a lower feeling gear ratio and they're marketing it as a touring machine, which also tends to prefer lower gearing so I don't expect you'll have a problem with gear ratios but that's something you can mention during the sales process if it's a concern. All the Bike Friday options you're looking at are using standard parts.

The problem with the specs they list is that they don't really list the exact components so it's hard to tell exactly what you're getting. I'd guesstimate that they're charging close to retail for the components. If you were to buy a lower trim and upgrade the components, you'd be out about that much plus labor if you didn't do the work yourself. I consider the mid range the baseline for what you're looking to do. The low end model's specs match the description, it's okay for a 30-50 mile ride on a weekend but if you're touring, you're likely to put more than ~3-4 hours into a ride. The high end...looks expensive to me. I think most of the extra money is going into the wheels and the rest into the 1x groupset but that still seems a couple hundred short of what they're charging.

As long as you're aware that a Bike Friday is kind of a boutique bike and as such you're paying a premium over a touring bike from a more mainstream manufacturer, I think the mid range bike is a good choice. That said, I don't do touring so that's mostly about components and trying to provide background so you're more informed when you call in. I'd recommend at least trying out a drop bar bike before deciding. Touring bikes are somewhat uncommon but endurance road (generally more leaned over/stretched out than a touring bike) or gravel bike would give you a good idea of what to expect.

linberl

I've owned a few BF so let me see if I can provide some useful info. First of all, nothing on the bike is proprietary so you can always adapt it as your needs change. Second, a used one can be a fine choice - just make sure the frame is in great shape, all the components are easily changed. My first BF was used, and I rode it as I received it and slowly replaced things over time. I also sent the frame back eventually to bike friday for an overhaul and repaint, which was very reasonably priced. So for a used unit you have lots of options.
For a new BF, the things to spend your $$ on up front are good wheels along with the frame. The drivetrain/bars and stem/saddle/cranks and pedals are easily swapped later on. Get a good BB as well to make changing out the cranks later something that gives you lots of choices. EVERYTHING on BF bikes is customizable, you can spec out any parts you want, you are NOT limited to the 3 choices on the website you mention. You can either call or use the advanced builder and spec out each component as well.
Consider whether you have a donor bike or not. I had a Trek with some fantastic parts on it that I moved over to my BF (obviously make sure it's a good fit, don't swap a short rear der for a long cage).
They can match your riding position from a bike you currently have and love if you send them the specifications/measurements. Also, if you haven't ridden an NWT, you can call them and they can arrange a test ride with an owner who lives near you (if there is one). They do this all the time.
If you can wrench on your own bike, I would go with the less expensive components at first, wear them out, and then upgrade over time. Keep in mind 20" wheels climb better and accelerate faster than bigger wheels so the gearing isn't identical in feel. The lower gears are going to be more effective than on a full sized bike.
The split flat bar/grip shift system BF uses works very well and is extremely stable, and much easier to pack than roadie setups. Call them and talk to Steve - even if you end up buying a used one, his advice will be helpful and also it's winter and they may have some discounts going he can tell you about to save a few bucks. They aren't like typical sales people; they won't try to upsell you, they want to match you to the right bike.
Also head over to FAcebook, to the Bike Friday Community page - we're a helpful group full of folks who go touring and will gladly give you all kinds of suggestions and advice. https://www.facebook.com/groups/bike...d=177147215204

freckles

Yes, i was considering the mid trim because its the middle and just $700 more vs the top trim is a bunch more and probably more than i need?

freckles

- YES! thank you!

- i'm looking on craigslist and nextdoor. i mostly see medium sized frames or ones with no info. could a medium size work for me? i'm 5'2", not long limbed. i've seen a couple- one is medium size and looks like its a high trim model ( paid 3k+ new selling 1.9k) and another was bought used from the bikefriday web site- a 2010 frame, small (!) with what i think has mid trim level specs (1k)

- thats the problem! too many options that i know very little about i got overwhelmed looking at the advanced builder page because i don't know whats good/better, why and how well they play together.

i don't know enough to ask proper questions.... is there a place for beginners to read to learn about the differences of the components? was reading the difference between canti vs v brakes earlier- understand the basics differences then the different brands come into play and yikes

- i emailed them but there isn't anyone close by to test ride. i did find a dealer in Norco california but they work out of their house- its about 60 miles away and i will see if they have any NWT to try.

linberl

If you call them, they know what questions to ask you about where you might ride, the conditions, distances, weather, etc. They can make the technical recommendations based on your intended usage, don't worry. I'm 5'4" and ride a small frame. I would not think a medium frame would fit you at all. I did have to look for about 4 months to find my small frame used NWT for sale on CL. I had the guy ship to me.

For touring you want a good spread of gears, comfy bars (their split H bars are loved), and v brakes (or if you ride in very rainy conditions, you might want disc brakes). Canti brakes are typically on road bikes with narrower tires. V brakes are pretty much the standard for hybrids, mtn bikes, and are great for touring because everyone knows how to fix them up and you can use wider more comfy tires. If you tour you want components that are not proprietary, not real unique, but are commonly used and easily repaired. That's the way B F are built.

Join the BF facebook community group, and post asking folks for their suggestions for a touring NWT - mention some places you'd like to ride. Folks will respond with their setups on their bikes, and you can ask why people chose the things they did. It's a super friendly helpful group and you will learn a lot from folks who have toured for years on the BF! One of the members actually leads tours for folks with Bike Fridays, very knowledgeable and super nice to beginners. https://www.facebook.com/groups/bike...d=177147215204

linberl

There's a BF NWT silk for sale on the BF Yak (an online group). They want $2k for it, it is a 2016 and they paid $3k for a custom setup. It should fit you, the rider is 5'4" and a couple inches is not a big deal. You can drop the seat and get a shorter stem and be just fine. In case you are interested, here are the deets:




We have decided to sell our Bike Friday touring bikes. They are top of the line, custom bikes. They are NW Tourist type silk. I am attaching a picture of the bikes and one of our invoices that describe what they are. We purchased them late in 2016. Since we sail in Mexico 6 months out of the year we just don't use them enough. Please give us a call if you are interested in one or both. We are thinking somewhere close to $2,000 per bike since they originally cost close to $3000.Contact me here or call 206-948-0633. It has an Alfine 11 speed, and is blue. Jan Campbell https://groups.google.com/a/bikefriday.com/group/yak/attach/497eeb4f1ed66/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_9da2.jpg?part=0.2&authuser=0&view=1

pinholecam

I'm your height and weight, but male.
I have a BF pocket rocket (super pro) and had many other folding bikes, plus I do tour with them.


Personally, I'd prefer the bike being able to take 1.65" tires and wider if possible.
That will mean V-brakes, so the NWT option will have to have mounting for that.
Reason is that I find that comfort and handling in poor condition roads and some easy tracks will be important on a tour.
Often, I am on a road based bike tour, but the routes to the lesser known scenic spots or not so famous tourist spots are gravel tracks rather than bitumen roads.

Gearing wise, it depends on fitness and load.
I find 27 gear inches on the low end pretty good with a lightly loaded bike (credit card touring) with probably 24 GI better for loaded (ie.camping/cooking gear, etc )
On a 406 20" wheel, something like a 52/36 chainring with 11-30t (or 11-36t) cassettle will suffice in most cases.

Also consider how you will be mounting your stuff, which means rear/front racks, so the bike has to have the mounting points and ample clreance to prevent heel strike for the rear bag.
The NWT is established enough to easily google up more information on how people mount stuff on it.

My suggestion is to get the frame with V-brake mounts, get the wheels that taake 1.5" and wider tires, make sure the frame has clearance for the tires and then have the gearing to cope for touring (does not really matter if its shimano Ultegra or Claris in this respect imho, since touring is really a self paced activity).

Once the initial purchase is done, go on a few short trips and add on to what's missing.
Ergon grips, some other saddle, different tires and bag/mounting comes in then.

Good luck

linberl

NWT's all come with v brakes and accommodate tires as big as fat apples. Gearing is up to the purchaser based on their fitness, but it's easily changed as fitness increases anyway. All NWT have multiple brazeons for front and rear racks as well as bottle cages. It's designed for touring, so they've kind of thought of all that. You can either buy the BF racks or get a nice Tubus rack to fit. The split bars make it easier to pack. It comes without saddle or pedals if you prefer - and I recommend that. The OP probably already has a saddle they like and the supplied pedals are nothing special so it makes sense to get ones you really like (also, you can get MKS removable pedals for easy packing). You can probably find those on sale for less than BF will charge for them.

freckles

thank you for the link, linberl!

i looked it up but not sure if its enough gears-11 igh for touring? also read online the alfine 11 isn't as rock solid as the 8?

but at 2k, its nearly the price of a new mid range nwt with warranty...

BromptonINrio

neither alfine 8 or 11 are rock solid for touring, bolth are prone to fail under heavy load/usage.
the best and only igh for touring in rohloff

CliffordK

At the local Bike Valet, I've met several shorter women who absolutely loved their shorter Bike Friday bikes.

Sorry, I don't have any specific recommendations. I have an older Pocket Rocket with the 451 (road) wheels.

The trailer/suitcase is a nice option.

linberl

I only posted it for you because the size was correct. You would be at most a 50" frame in a BF. You could even get away with a 48". Also, if you are under 150 lbs you could ride a "petite" model (lighter weight version) if you see one around. If anything in your size comes across my radar, I'll post it here. I'm on a couple different BF groups.

Tourist in MSN

I have never owned a Bike Friday and it has been years since I looked at their website.

But I did a week long group bike tour, three of the other riders had Bike Fridays, thus I will try to mention here some of what our conversations and throw out a few of my thoughts from seeing Bike Fridays on a bike tour. The tour was the ACA Glacier Waterton loop. That is self contained, meaning each rider carried their camping gear on the bikes, there was no support vehicle. There were some steep hills, both up and down.

Two of the three Bike Fridays were owned by the guide and his wife. I recall the guide mentioning that he had the Sachs three speed hub along with rear derailleur gearing, he said he wished that they still made the Sachs hub because his wifes bike would spin out on downhills, was lacking higher gears. I recall telling him that the Sachs hub he wanted had been replaced by the Sram Dual Drive and that I had the Dual Drive on my folder. The Dual Drive is now out of production, I think they discontinued it about a year or two ago, I do not know if Bike Friday might have any in inventory or not. I like the Dual Drive because the internal gearing gives me a nice spread of gears on my folder including the high gear which is an overdrive. The problem with 20 inch wheels is that if you use regular bike drive train parts, you lack the higher gears that can be nice to have on shallow downhills where you might want to still pedal instead of coast. I have heard that Sturmy Archer makes a similar hub, you might ask Bike Friday what they think of this, advantages and disadvantages, etc.

The two Bike Fridays that the guide and his wife used, they used the suitcase as a trailer to haul gear. One of them also was fitted with a rear rack but he put very little weight on the rear rack. They were quite happy with that setup. I however tour on normal two wheel bikes and I would not have liked the trailer because on rough roads, you have three tire tracks instead of one, thus are more likely to hit pot holes, etc. Also some roads have rumble strips near the edge that can be quite a hassle when one of your wheels are on them. But, if you always tour on roads with good wide paved shoulders, the trailer would be great. A small bike with a trailer that is only inches off the ground is not very visible from behind for approaching traffic to see, use a flag and flag pole, and a flashing taillight. Also wear high visibility clothing.

The third Bike Friday on that trip, the owner had all his gear on the rear rack. I do not recall if I talked to him about the bike handling, but generally it is best to put your gear across both front and rear of the bike if you are hauling very much stuff, such as camping gear. But if you are staying indoors and not cooking on your trip (credit card touring), packing only on the rear rack could be viable and result in a nice handling bike. I always tour with four panniers on full size bikes. I have thought about doing a tour on my folder but have not done so yet.

If you tour in a location that you have to fly to, you likely will have to find a place that will store your case while you are there. I have done two foreign tours with my S&S coupled bike, thus had to worry about storing my bike case. In both cases I stored it at a hostel, but in one of those cases storage was a hassle. Some people have shipped a case from where they landed to a location where they would finish a tour later, but I have not done that as my tours with my S&S coupled bike were loop tours, packed up the bike in the same location as I had started that trip weeks earlier. I do not know if it is practical to pack a Bike Friday in a cardboard box that you fabricated someplace to ship your bike home, you might want to ask the Bike Friday people about that. With my S&S coupled bike, it would be a hassle but it would be possible for me to get a full size bike box and then cut it down to 26 X 26 X 10 inches to pack my bike.

If you have not checked out crazy guy on a bike web site, you should do so. There are thousands of trip logs from other bike tourists there, some used Bike Fridays. Check it out and do a search for Bike Fridays. If you read some of the trip logs you will find out how the owners set up their bikes and what they thought of them. And of course you will get some info on how bike touring on a folder worked out for them. The site is not organized very conveniently, but it can provide a lot of data. Before I tour somewhere that I have not been to before, I always check out what others said on that website.
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/search/?main_type=journals&docs=tocs&query="Bike+Friday"&sort=date_desc

Two of the three Bike Fridays on that trip are on the far left in the photo, you can see the red and blue trailers.

linberl

Bike Friday seasonal sale is up on their website now:

• 
  

  BLACK FRIDAY AT BIKE FRIDAY

  CHOOSE ONE OF THESE OPTIONS:

  • FREE SHIPPING UP TO $300 INTERNATIONAL

  • ORDER A NEW BIKE AND SAVE UP TO 20%

  • ORDER A PRE-LOVED BIKE AND SAVE UP TO 50%

  • OVERHAUL OR UPGRADE YOUR OLD BIKE FRIDAY AND GET FREE SHIPPING IN USA

  – CONTACT US BEFORE END OF DAY CYBER MONDAY DEC 2ND TO QUALIFY –

  CALL US 800-777-0258

  (A REAL LIVE PERSON WHO RIDES A BIKE WILL ANSWER!)

  
  
  

Tourist in MSN

One more thing, if you plan to do touring, a dynohub can be a nice thing to have for charging up batteries. To add one later to a bike you already have means cost of a new hub, new spokes, possibly new rim, and possibly fee for wheel building. But to add a dynohub on a bike that they are building for you, it is only the cost of a dynohub minus the cost of the regular hub which is a LOT cheaper. I do not know who makes hubs that will fit on a Bike Friday, thus I do not know the cost, but that is something to discuss with Bike Friday. It is possible that only Son hubs fit on a Bike Friday and unfortunately they are expensive.

For battery or phone charging, you also would have to add the cost of the USB charger, I paid $125 for my Sinewave Revolution and you might need to get a pass through cache battery too, but that likely is less than $50.

Touring, I can go weeks without having to plug anything into an outlet for charging. But you have to be careful to avoid wasting power to do it, avoid using a cold phone (cold batteries discharge faster), etc.

freckles

Yes! thank you! i called them yesterday and spoke with walter- he clarified all new bike are 20% off!!!

i'm going to drive out to the only dealer 50+ miles away and try out the NWT

was not clear how it would be to order from dealer vs direct..... but i think i'm going for the "long distance" mid tier and maybe add a dynohub

i just bought the samsonite s'sure online tonight!!!!- so i better buy the bike too

freckles

thank you, tourist in MSN! I was just reading about dynohubs while it was slow at work tuesday- good use of time, at least i was learning something


my current bike has a shimano dynohub and i love it- the front light doesn't do much ( from what i can tell) but the back light is bright and stays on, especially useful waiting at red lights when i aint peddling.

linberl

That's great!!! I post their holiday discount every year hoping someone will get to take advantage. Keep us posted and you definitely need to give us photos upon receipt.

Tourist in MSN

Keep in mind that a dyno hub for USB power does not mean you can waste power, I think I average about 2 watts coming out of the USB charger when you factor in lower power when going up hills, no power when stopped, etc. You need good quality cables to avoid wasting energy, minimize phone usage, minimize screen lighting, I also found that using my phone on cold mornings (40 degrees F) to check weather forecasts, etc. really sucks up battery power.

I bought a B&M IQ-XS headlight for my rando bike, it provides pretty good lighting off the hub. There are brighter lights but teh XS is good for the price. See photo. I used an extra tall mount (optional) to get it up higher, the stock mount that comes with it is shorter.

freckles

I tried the NWT today!!!

its totally different from my Oma, i expected this but was still surprised.

the dealer model was too big for me- maybe the frame/stem/??? and the mtb handlebars were extra wide and set level with the seat. i had to reach forward and had a lot of pressure on my wrists, brake levers too large/weird angle had to reach more forward to reach the levers.

but it was cute and nimble and light and folds up into a suitcase! how can i make it comfy with less pressure on my wrists for me?

what handlebars will be comfy? h bars? butterfly?

dealer said i can take measurements off my Oma and BF can customize it to feel like my Oma- is that possible since the geometry is so different? example- can't stand up and ride up hills on Oma but would a BF with same measurements be able to take hills?

ack! i discovered the custom page taunting me with more things that i know i don't know!

their black friday sale ends tomorrow!!!!!

freckles

my Oma rides in such a relaxed manner when i first got on the dealer NWT, i felt like i was going to go over the handlebars every time i hit the brakes!

linberl

If you go ahead an order, you can change some of your specs if you want to before they begin the build. Btw, if you give them my name, you'll get some free goodies (and so will I, lol - Linda Berland). No biggie if you don't, though. Don't stress, they will ask you the questions they need to ask to get the bike right for you. When I got my last BF, they sent me a couple stems because they were not entirely sure which was going to be the most comfortable for me. Of course, I've replaced that with a much lighter weight one along with a bunch of other lighter weight parts over time, because, well, because I can with a BF and weight matters to me as I carry my pakiT everywhere. I didn't make a lot of changes to my NWT, just put on some Nitto Albatross style bars and got a different saddle. Here's a pic of my NWT that I had with the Albatross bars.

freckles

your bike is so pretty! how did you decide on the color? i was going to go stealth black because i don't like standing out but the colors are a nice pop!

what NWT did you get? did you go thru the customization page?

yes, i will give them your name!

freckles

question- with the Albatross style handlebars were you able to ride up hills?