custermustache

I recently bought a bike with Suntour front and rear der., and I was wondering if I should switch it out with my early 600 gear. Is one better than the other?

cuda2k

Depends on the SunTour rear derailleur and which Shimano 600. If you're not sure on what model SunTour you have (or which generation of 600), take a look at VeloBase, most likely both are listed on there.

custermustache

Suntour rd 4400 vs early (post Arabesque) 600.

cuda2k

If you do not need the long cage RD-4400 (aka: aR GT), then I'd consider going to a Shimano 600EX an upgrade.

noglider 

You don't specify what you mean by "better" or what your goals are. If your current setup works, leave it. If you want to upgrade, tell us why, and we'll tell you if your ideas make sense.

I loved the SunTour derailleurs from the 70's and 80's. I always preferred them to Shimano. They were so straightforward and durable.

perichbrothers

like others have said,
if it shifts into each gear,
and stays without any clicking noises or "mystery-shifting"
than obviously you don't need to change it.

Also if you have suntour shifters, bar-end or whatever,
(or just the whole suntour component group)
i'd keep it as is.

suntour made some good stuff that still works great.

(hey I understand the need for changing stuff that might not need changing though,
i'm a campy addict on my "higher end" bikes and my beater+tandem are both mostly suntour)

have fun

tp

custermustache

I have 600 on my bike now, but bought a bike that had the Suntour on it. My 600 will give me an occasional shift into "no gear" where I spin like crazy and have to adjust to find the next gear. It has also been giving me issues with top gear- when I get in top gear it will sometimes downshift for me.
This is not 600ex.
What advantage is the long cage?
By better, I mean I want solid shifts with a minimum of issues.
I am running bar ends, but they are more modern Shimano.

mkeller234

This is an absolute 100% complete guess based on my own experience. The "chain skating" that you are experiencing may have something to do with your freewheel. I had a straight toothed atom freewheel that liked to chain skate, I replaced it with a Shimano uniglide and it has never happened since.

The low gear ghost shift might be that the adjuster screw is too tight, maybe try and back it off a quarter turn or so?

Just guesses, but those have worked in my cases, good luck!

custermustache

This is a Maillard hub, and I'm not sure what freewheel it has on it, but it is a 6 speed - I have a Shimano hub with a Shimano 7 speed freewheel that I have considered replacing it with, but I can never get it tuned right when I put it on there.

trueno92

try swapping the rear wheel with another with a different freewheel.

custermustache

As I said, I have a differnt freewheel that is 7 instead of 6 speed - but I can't get my derailer to work right with it - would hte long cage Suntour be a better fit?

I dont' want to change just to change, but improvement is always good.

John E

Chain skate is a function of the cogset (lateral spacing, tooth progression, tooth shape) and the chain. I have to be a bit careful to avoid it with a slightly worn standard 6-speed Regina America 13-15-17-19-21-23 freewheel and an SRAM PC-58 chain. The rear derailleur and its jockey pulley affect this only in the sense that some provide more positive control, making it easier for the rider to keep the chain out of a skate position. A 7-speed freewheel can help, by reducing the lateral spacing between the cogs.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

Depends on the amount of chain wrap you need on the 7 speed hub. If the 7 speed has a larger Low gear and a smaller high gear you may need a rear derailleur with a larger chain wrap capacity, which the long cage Suntour would provide.

cooper34

I generally prefer ST to Shimano. I have and have used the 600 series RD and it is fine, but nothing great. Unless there is something wrong with the SunTour RD, I would not switch.

wrk101

AR is one of the lower to midgrades of Suntour. I really like Suntour stuff, and prefer it to early Shimano. There is a good thread on the models/levels of Suntour. Do a search and you should be able to find it.

custermustache

Once again - the bike HAS shimano now, but I have some Suntour I can put on. Let me search and do some reading.

custermustache

The bike has this derailer



I am thinking of replacing it with this one:



I can't find that thread - any better searchers out there want to link it for me?

dannyg1 

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=551085

custermustache

Anyone got the same kind of list for early Shimano?

dannyg1 

Not sure if this one corresponds to 82 very well, but the general hierarchy is:

Dura Ace 7000 series (Dura Ace AX/EX)/Crane GS (from the 1st gen)
Sante/Ultegra SL
600/Ultegra/AX/EX/Tourney 6000 series
105/Exage/RX100/Light Action 5000 series
Sora/Tiagra/Later Exage 4000 series

custermustache

Seems like it'd be a sideways step, at best.

Bianchigirll 

I would convert back to &spd if I could find some Superbe Pro index parts in good shape or NOS

SoreFeet

Keep the 600 until you break it or wear it out. The AR is a good robust unit. In reality a derailleur is almost always a derailleur until things wear out or get knocked out of alignment. There is of course some difference but not really a big deal.

A great cheap derailleur for vintage bikes for me is the Shimano ACERA. They are cheap and have oversized pulleys that respond well to cross chaining and all gear combos. I don't know how long they last but the one I used did good.

Don't worry too much. Have fun. The Cyclone GT would be an upgrade over the 600...I think the Crane is also a very nice unit. The Crane is built more stout than the 600.

Have fun. If it is running now don't mess with it.

RobbieTunes

I've had both of them, find those two pretty even. Go up a year or so in the 600, to 600EX, and things start to separate, because you have to jump a couple steps in Suntour to match up as well, (per me only).

Shimano stayed consistently good in the 600 line as it progressed. Suntour, you had to figure out what they were up to next. Doesn't mean they were worse, just harder to decipher.

Perhaps if Suntour had decided to brand a line and simply upgrade it through time, they'd still be here.

Allan Pollock

as others have said, these are probably around same level of quality. but, it would appear that the suntour is a long cage derailler whereas the shimano is a short cage.use long cage if you want wide gearing with a triple chainring. otherwise, stick with the short cage for crisper shifting.
Allan