illjustride

So I’m looking into a new wheel set for my gravel bike. I’ve heard a friend say that the i9 Torch is to much engagement for a gravel bike. I’m wondering if that is true. Does anyone run this hub on there gravel bike. Should I opt for a hub with less engagement like the Chris King offering or the ENVE road hub? I am looking at the G27 wheelset.

Russ Roth

Don't know what too much engagement would mean. I run chris king classics on both my road bikes and those have 72 points of engagement and I haven't seen any problems with them. Both were bought pre-r45 versions and are great for when the bike slows enough on a downhill that I can start pedaling again, the moment I start to pedal the engagement is instant. On gravel or cross they rock because of being able to feather the pedals to avoid strikes or for a quick surge, and the ability to ride a water crossing and keep riding is the best. From what I know of them the I9 is supposed to be every bit the equal of the kings, some with argue better, and exactly what I would look to for gravel.

Koyote

You should ask your friend why “too much engagement“ is a problem. I would love to hear the answer.

with that said, I don’t know that a huge number of engagement points is as important on a gravel bike as on an MTB. But still, your friend made a silly comment.

veganbikes

I have too much chocolate or they gave me too much money or I have too many points of engagement are all problems for those with Gulfstream jets, Rolls Royces and pools lined with gold filled with Dom P.
My touring bike has a i9 freehub (Paul Cassette RHUB) and I have not once had an issue aside from people thinking my bike is broken because it makes such a beautiful noise when freewheeling that they don't get. I like it so much I really want to get a wheelset from them with the Hydra hubs

Your friend seems like they might prefer bland hubs that are unmarked and the bearings are sealed as in they are locked in a room while Kiss From A Rose plays on repeat. They also probably enjoy plain rice crackers and tepid tap water. Ditch them and find someone who says 690 points is OK but couldn't they make it an even 700 and rasta anodize it. Way better friend that friend probably also enjoys tacos and exotic tiki beverages.

aclinjury

For road bike, 18 points of engagement is very acceptable.
For mtb, 36pt is good, and if you do lots of slow technical climbing with hairpins, then 54pt is great. 72pt is probably overkill.
For gravel, I would rather go with a 36pt hub as I think 72pt is an overkill for gravel, and if you have a naturally high cadence, then 72pt is a definite overkill IMO.

My old mtb with a DT240 had only 18pts and I used that to climb technical hairpins ALL THE TIMES. Yes there were a handful of times in the middle of a hairpin with major bumps that made me wish I had more engagement points so that my pedal stroke wouldn't get bogged down just as I negotiate over a big rock smack in the middle of a hairpin. But we're talking about maybe 1-2% of my riding time, not something huge. Now if I was riding like this 50% of the time, yeah then I'd not hesitate to get a higher engagement hub (or in DT Swiss' case, upgrade their ratchet rings). My buddy's mtb hub (I beleive it was Hope) had 72 pts, and I tried his bike, and I definitely noticed the quicker engagement. However, he and I rode togethr all the time on the same trails, and I pretty much did whatever he could do with his equipment, so points of engagement did keep me back, in a terrain where points of engagement would matter most.

You riding gravel, I highly doubt 72pt would do you much benefits.

There are also the cons of having very high number of points of engagement. Because a higher number of teeth are squeeze into the hub, these teeth are made smaller, and smaller teeth have smaller contact areas with the pawls and thus can't take as high a load and thus and thus increase the probability of freehub body slipping against the hub over time as the smaller teeth wear down. Also, more teeth also means more friction when you're coasting (in a traditional pawl-driven hub design).

For reference, Shimano's Dura Ace and XTR hubs all have 36 pts, and people use these hubs in all sort of riding terrains.

Personally, for a gravel bike, I would not want a hub with more than 36ish points of engagement as this number of engagement points has been proven to give great balance between longevity and functionality.

aclinjury

The higher the cadence (assuming your legs have the power to deliver high cadence), the quicker the crank will sweep through the angle of engagement. DT Swiss ratchet system comes in 18 teeth, 36t, and 54t. And there are a lot of folks, riding DT Swiss hubs, at elite, pro, and world levels. My current mtb has the DT 36t ratchet, and there are only a handful of situations where I'm negotiating a tight 15% uphill switchback, with big rocky chunks, do wish I wish to have a faster engaging hub. But like I said, high cadence can make up for a lack of engagement points. Also, timing and climbing skills also come into play, ie., an experience XC rider with strong legs and core won't need to rely on a fast engaging hub as a lesser and weaker rider. But at some point, more engagement points will give a diminishing return while causing the hub to become weaker. And I believe you when you say you can notice a difference between a hub with 72pt vs 120pt, but the question is, does this difference translate into any on-trail performance at the risk of a weaker hub? This is really judgement that involves engineering tradeoffs and rider's experience level. Personally, I'm on a 36t ratchet DT hub and have been contemplating for a couple years now if I should upgrade to a 54t ratchet but I just can't see how this would make me faster in a real meaningful way on the trail.

An if higher engagement points is always better, then you can bet companies like DT Swiss, Shimano, Campy, will not hesitate to make their hubs like so. These are the big 3 three hub manufacturers and it's well within their capability to make higher engagement hubs should they deem it to be advantageous while not killing durability.

Now if I were to climb 15% switchbacks ALL the time, or if i'm a weaker rider (especially with low cadence), or if I'm doing a lot of trial riding, or bmx'ing, then faster engagement could prove more useful mainly due to the more crank positions they offer, and in the case of bmx'ing fast accleration out of a corner (where milliseconds count in a race). But these are quite specialized scenarios, IMO

HerrKaLeun

Low gearing also will increase how many degrees you need to move the crank before engagement. A gravelbike is ridden with higher gearing than an MTB. So PoE at the hub will matter less.

aclinjury

and you fundamentally don't understand techniques.. at all. A skilled climber will train and work at multiple cadences, at force, in coordination with timely shifting such that to minimize "free coasting" and allowing the disengagement of the pawls from the ratchet (or 2 ratches in the case of DT Swiss). You clearly like to emphasis equipment over techniques (and training). If 72pt or higher Poe is all that advantageous, then rest assured Shimano, DT Swiss, will be on it. Should I think that Shimano and DT Swiss know less about hub design than what you have presented here?

Basically so far you have only emphasized just ONE factor, that's POE. But you fail to understand that POE alone is not the most important factor, not even close, in the big picture. Hub durability, robustness, in association with precise shifting (to alter gear ratio and thus engagement speed), in association with pedaling cadence, can affect a great deal in how fast a rider can engage a hub, and many moderately skilled riders who are moderately trained will spend VERY LITTLE TIME in disengagement state. So I'm baffled why are you making high POE like it's the most important thing?

Russ Roth

Getting past the arguments of how many points you really need; they're light, fast and strong and their popularity is based on the fact that their only real downside is their cost which if you can afford them isn't a downside. Some will whine about the buzz a the high engagement numbers can make, I've always pointed out that if they pedaled faster I could stop coasting and the noise would go away. If you like them, get them, you won't find many who ever regret doing so.

HerrKaLeun

On my fatbike with 26:46 low gearing I have 54 PoE and don't think I need more. But I'm afraid once I try more, I want more 😆

My hybrid has 16 PoE and sometimes engagement after coasting takes too long. I mean, in 1st World problem terms.

aclinjury

frankly you sound like a mindset of a weaker rider who preach equipment over skills and training.
lol plenty of riders with CK hubs get their asses passed by XC riders on hubs from DT, Shimano, SRAM. Skills and training trump equipment and POE anyday all day on the trail buddy stay out of the way and let the fast guys thru please while you take your sweet time to climb