slcbob

Bottlepalooza? Bidoncella?

Excerpt of steephill.tv's day 3 wrap up here:
The last link is Horner spending much of 8 minutes explaining the second half of G's crash, talking only about the back wheel and unclippling. It's pretty clear to me in the videos (the first two, particularly the second) that the front while strike on the full, angled bottle is what started the whole catastrophe. Oh, cruel fate. It does look like G's back wheel hit, too, but he was already riding a bucking bronco.

Bonus -- the Vini Zabu DS throwing a wobbly is in there, too. He should thank that Commissaire for saving him from the illegal feed penalty and the hissy fit that would have come with that.

MinnMan

Thomas has a fractured hip. Lord, these guys are tough. Yeah, he lost 12 minutes on the leaders, but in normal human terms, that still means he climbed like a maniac, on a renowned mountain stage.... with a broken hip.

slcbob

^ yes, I just saw that. These guys are freaks.

Speaking of freaks, how about the UCI? Here's an interesting article on bottle cage policy. Or the lack thereof.
https://cyclingtips.com/2020/10/a-si...as-giro-crash/

I'm torn between wondering why there isn't a little more regulation and wondering why the peloton can't just be self-policing. One of the things I love about cycling is it's just such a hot mess supernumerary for life itself.

Flip Flop Rider

that's one tough hombre. His book is great to. He's kind of of a throwback to the old hard men

canklecat

Yeah, when I watched the video where Geraint Thomas crashed I could see bottles flying after hitting that speed bump. For some reason some commentators described it as a rough road, but it appeared to be smooth asphalt with a major jolt from a speed bump, very visible when one of the motorcycles rode over it.

That's why my bottle cages are all mismatched. I like a cheap plastic 50Strong cage that's easy to use on the downtube, but it's not secure enough for the seat tube. First time I hit a rough dip on a fast short steep downhill during a group ride, my bottle on the seat tube nearly popped out -- only my leg saved it. Could have been bad if anyone had been behind me.

Soon as I got home I switched the seat tube cages on every bike to something more secure. I still use the 50Strong cages on the downtube because they're so easy to use. And I've never lost a bottle from those on the downtube. But I don't trust any cage on the seat tube if it's too easy to use.

Lemond1985

Links are not working for me, i have no idea what you guys are talking about.

slcbob

I tested just now and got a cert warning / caution but links worked. It's OK. Trust it.

Lemond1985

I got past that part, but then there was no Youtube link to the actual event in question, they had apparently been taken down. So what's left are about 5 links with all kinds of different people discussing every possible permutation of the event, in excruciating detail, WITHOUT EVER LETTING YOU SEE A STUPID 5 SECOND CLIP OF THE S.O.B. ACTUALLY FALLING OFF HIS BIKE. Which is really all I was interested, in not everyone and their freaking dog's OPINIONS about the mysterious event, which was so mysterious that we were not allowed to watch it.

I found the experience mildly frustrating, but YMMV.

diphthong

i hope we don't watch cycling only for the crashes *ducks for cover*...

Lemond1985

I just can't take the sport seriously any more after last year's TDF's "assigned winner". And the taking away of previous titles from a legitimate champion. Most people are probably way past that stuff, and I know I'm in the extreme minority here, but taken together, they really confirmed some of my worst suspicions about the sport.

I just can't get very enthused any more about grand tours and the UCI, after seeing that go down. I don't feel like I'm watching an honest competition, and if it's essentially rigged why bother?

diphthong

perhaps the sport is best viewed not "seriously." sure, there are herculean efforts every stage but as i've said on other (semi-) related posts,
it's naive to think that nearly everyone, in any serious revenue producing athetic endeavor, isn't looking for that edge and is possibly just
ahead of the testers/commisaires regarding potentially/eventually questionable "supplements/regimen." at least cycling tests a decent amount. would
it surprise me if half (or more) of the peleton were (questionably) doping...absolutely not.
do you feel the same about american football (when was the last time someone got flagged for something other than pot?), real football or say golf?
almost hilarious that a secondhand (thirdhand $$-wise) sport such as pro cycling has such a bad rap. how do we all think that a random, unannounced
and total/comprehensive testing in any professional football league (in season) would go?

when you've got weekend warriors doping for ego reasons, how do you think the $$ factor equates? can't help but exacerbate things.

and honestly, lance was competing against fellow dopers. he was just better financed. the various enhancements helped him to climb the mountain faster.
they didn't help him to climb the mountain in general. the whole you don't turn a donkey into a racehorse thing. dude's already gotta be a racehorse of
great ability.

there was a five-time tour de france winner back in the day that essentially said you don't win the tour on mineral water.

canklecat

The video I saw was on Twitter, showing Thomas falling over one of the many bottles that popped out of cages when riders hit a speed bump. I was using my phone and didn't bookmark it, don't remember whose Twitter feed had the video.

slcbob

Lemond1985 , look at the videos in the Twitter posts in the first two links. All the gory details you came here for, from two different angles, right on the spot of his demise. But I don't think the bottles were carrying all that baggage.

canklecat , I didn't go back just now, don't recall a speed bump, remember seeing what I though was a stretch of cobbles like for a crosswalk. I dunno. Certainly there was a solid bump or patch of something that had many bottles all over the place. Yes, big differences between cages.

canklecat

Ah, this fan video on the Sticky Bottle site is taken from a higher angle and does indeed show a small patch of cobbles or bricks, with a serious pothole on the near side, that contributed to the flying bottles and Thomas' crashing.

Thomas described that crash perfectly. Another example of why the notion of "rolling with the fall" and similar advice is usually impractical. When we fall it's usually like a sack of potatoes or an uncontrollable death wobble and splat. The only exceptions I've seen are in time trials when a solo rider slides out on a curve and sometimes manages to slide with only abrasions and bruises. Usually they don't get so lucky.

surak

That's the excuse Lance would have everybody believe, and how he justified his cheating, but it's not how EPO works. Lance benefitted because his natural hemacrit level was well below the UCI threshold and he could get a large boost from fresh blood, whereas other riders may have benefitted less.

I suggest reading (or refreshing your memory of the facts laid out in) The Secret Race. By the time Lance was getting the newest and best illicit enhancements, the vast majority of the peloton had been scared clean. And Lance got (and bribed his way to) plenty of preferential treatment by the UCI to look the other way.

From interviews I've read with riders from that era, even the admitted dopers, the majority believe pro cycling is cleaner today. Not completely beyond suspicion, but far better than in the era where no one really can say who the real winner was of any race.

Flip Flop Rider

still like to watch. The attacks, the tactics, the break-aways, and the announcers comments. I learn something most every time I watch

Flip Flop Rider

also, the lead outs and sprint finishes

vane171

Big factor was playing the 'humanity' card, or how to call it. His touchy feely history of being cured of cancer and riding for children or some disabled societies or something like that. That made him untouchable by pretty well anybody. Sort of like those hiding behind racist/fascist or such similar label today. And that's also how he justified the doping to himself, that it was in a 'good cause'.

Probably most here have seen the Big Bang Theory TV show where Rajesh dated a mute/deaf girl and Penny made a come-on comment, something to the effect, that 'disabled people are always nice, everybody knows that!' ...

canklecat

Back on topic, sorta... I nearly took myself out with a dropped bottle a few days ago. First ride with full finger gloves as the weather cooled. Those gloves are five years old now and the grippy rubber fingertip pads have worn down. I fumbled the bottle and nearly dropped it under my wheel, but knocked it away with my shin at the last moment.

One of my pet peeves in group rides is people fooling around with their phones, or trying to be fancy with their bottles, flipping them around like jugglers, and dropping stuff and causing crashes.

I'm just glad I was riding solo. That goof could have been painful for anyone following me.