slvoid

I've got the schwalbe marathon supreme's. They're kinda in between the marathon's and the plus's. So far so good through maybe 2000 miles in NYC.

However, if you want 100% protection and you're not worried about the most supple ride or the most efficient ride, try solid rubber tires. I know someone who tried a 700x23 solid rubber tire and said it was about 90% of what a regular pneumatic tire was under normal non-race conditions. 0% of flatting. Not sure if they come in 27" size though.

I would go for the schwalbe's because in my experience, and my gf's, and a coworkers, for some reason, the armadillo sidewalls get chewed up really fast. The schwalbe's with a nice thick liner plus thorn resistant tubes would be the best option. At this point, don't worry about efficiency. It's like asking for a car that can go off road, take 3ft drops, and yet still corner at 3g's.

PaulRivers

From reading the forums, I've heard nothing but bad things about solid rubber tires. They don't cushion anywhere near as well, they can roll off the wheel while you're turning, they're very hard on the wheel itself because they absorb so much less impact (see the first point) - I've just never heard anything good from anyone who's actually tried them.

I find it difficult to believe they're 90% as good, in general. I mean seriously, if they were that good, *every* store would carry them. People would be recommending them all the time for commuters. Every single thread asking for suggestions about flat resistant tires would have someone saying "well if you're not racing, flatproof solid rubber tires are the way to go!!"

I mean, think about it - a tire that it isn't even possible to have go flat? How awesome would that be! Have you seen how many people comment about getting a commuter bike that's very cheap, and "saving the race bike for the weekend"? These people would LOVE a genuinely flat-proof tire.

Yet...none of that has happened. I can't come to any other conclusion than that there must be some big, huge drawbacks to solid rubber tires that are so terrible, it's not even worth the complete protection from flats. I mean - some serious, serious issues.

slvoid

Woke up on the wrong side of the bike tire futon?

The problem is that most people also ignore my comment of 100% puncture protection. I've yet to see a pneumatic tire choice with 100% puncture protection. This guy raced, has a race bike, give it a cool off period after waking up from the wrong side of a futon, gave solid rubber tires a try, said it wasn't so bad just tooling around town with it. I tend to believe him. I also recommended a regular pneumatic tire for the best compromise.

BTW: learning to use google is great: https://www.techimo.com/forum/imo-com...ike-tires.html

That was like the 4th link. I'm not seeing any horror stories there. The reason why they're not recommended more often is because a) people care about performance and b) are happy with 95% (or whatever made up number) puncture protection. Think of it as a jacked up wrangler. It is absolutely ridiculous to commute on one (or to even drive one on pavement in general). They're noisy, slow, prone to tipping over during a turn and killing you. But if you want to know 100% for sure that you'll make it through a rock garden in the middle of your commute, I would not recommend a honda civic. However, if your commute has a mile or two of unpaved road, I'm sure a honda civic would suffice.


If you don't corner at 80mph, don't care too much about how much cushion the tires have (in this case, a lot of cushion...), don't care about performance, but just want to make it through, drive that.

Otherwise, I recommend this:


And then on the weekends, drive this:

adlai

I have these.

https://www.performancebike.com/bikes...m=forte+gotham

I bought them after suffering through 5 (!) flats in one week...and on the first day I suffered another flat due to over-inflation of the rear tire. But otherwise I like them a lot, I feel safe jumping curbs in them, no flats, and they're surprisingly fast.

They're basically panaracer crosstowns, which cost like $30 on REI.com, but on performance they're 13 bucks. A steal if you ask me. The tires even have panaracer on their sidewalls.

slvoid

Jumping curbs wouldn't puncture your tires. You might get a pinch flat but it won't puncture them like a nail would. Might tear some of the belts from the shock though.

adlai

pinch flat, whatever. on 23-28 tires you have to worry a little when jumping curbs. NOt so much for 32 tires

mtnwalker

Ever been to parts of the Bay Area? Some people actually commute in one of those things.

slvoid

I live in NYC, of course I have.

There's actually a regular on my route that commutes in his F430 spyder.

Nothing like this good ol' fashioned chinese wedding though. The cars were probably party favors...
https://www.luxury4play.com/928203-post1.html

Shimagnolo

I didn't even know the Durano Plus existed.
My stock answer to the OP's Q has always been "Marathon Plus", but just the other day I ran across this:

https://www.conti-online.com/generato...amilie_en.html

Looks like Conti is effectively copying the Schwalbe "Plus" idea.

mtnwalker

LOL, Kinda cheapens the vehicle in my view.

Incredible, nevertheless.

meanwhile

..The thread is about a page and a half long. Two of the four people who had actually tried the tyres made negative comments. It probably isn't that smart of you to get snarky about this.

slvoid

Oh I'm smart. Look how smart I am!
<--

slvoid

Communism... it's working!

BCRider

I've tried a couple of different brands and had great luck with both of them. Truly I doubt it really matters which brand as long as they are kevlar belted.

But you know what? I'd strongly suggest that ANYONE on a bicycle should know how to quickly and confidently change out a tube and how to rapidly and skillfully examine the tire carcase for embedded wire and glass to ensure that they avoid a sudden re-occurance. ESPECIALLY if they are commuting all over town. Kevlar belted tires may well reduce the need for this but they certainly do not eliminate it. Some training to bring your daughter up to a decent level of flat repair skill is definetly needed. There's no AAA autoclub for bicycles after all.

slvoid

Along with practice, a CO2 cartridge head (the kind that uses threaded cartridges) is a very small piece of convenience when it supplements a traditional pump, especially with high pressure but wide tires like 700x28/32's and a large volume (low pressure) hand pump. I can have my 700x32's up to 50psi or so by hand very quickly and then top it off with the CO2.

aley

Unless you don't keep proper pressure in them, you don't have to worry about 23s either. I hit one on a curb hard enough last night to buckle the frame, put a hop in the wheel significant enough that it'll have to be rebuilt with a new rim, and throw me violently on the ground - but I didn't pinch flat my 700x23 tire at ~100 psi. If a 23 can hit a curb hard enough to destroy the wheel without pinch flatting, I'd say that the pinch flat problem is strictly one of too little pressure. But of course, we already knew that.

PaulRivers

That's a really terrible idea for the target audience - someone's step-daughter going to college.

A CO2 cartridge is for people who need to pump their tires up to 100psi, can afford to buy replacement cartridges in exchange for saving 5 minutes of pumping, and will remember how to use it (and not accidentally leak all the CO2 out of it before it gets hooked up to their tire).

A freshman college student who uses their bike for transportation but not racing or "serious" riding is none of those things. 3 months from now she probably won't remember how to use it. She won't need to pump her tires up to 100psi just to get to campus and back home again where she can pump them up to full pressure. And if she actually managed to use a cartridge, she probably won't replace it. "I'd have to go the the bike shop, AND pay $4 for a replacement cartridge...I can't afford that". Do you remember college? I wore the same 2 pairs of shoes for 5 and a half years because I didn't want to spend the money on new shoes. I remember people losing weight during their poorer periods, not because they wanted to diet, but because they had trouble affording food (not that some of them weren't idiots who were spending money on beer instead, but that's still the same thing regarding a CO2 cartridge).

A bike pump would be a *far* better option. The only problem with, the same one you'll have with CO2 cartridges, is trying to figure out how to keep it on the bike, but not have it stolen when the bike is locked up on campus.

adlai

that strikes me as false. More pressure = when you jump a curb the sides of the tube get even more pressure on them.

I've blown out a number of 23's but very rarely have I blown out 32's.

Kojak

"GatorSkin is just a flat resistant as the MP"

I don't believe this statement to be true. The two tires are strikingly different in their compound and construction, and are not really aimed at the same market. The Conti is more of a roadracing tire, at least in its initial incarnation. The Marathon Plus is an Expedition/Touring/Commuting tire.

The MP can be a bear to mount (some people have no problems at all) and no, they are not supple tires. The Conti Ultra G is a really nice tire, I've used them in the past, and yes they ride nicer than the Schwalbe MP. But in terms of flat protection, the Schwalbe MP tires are so far unparalleled.

Kojak

It's the sincerest form of flattery!

PaulRivers

Yeah, but what he's saying is that in his experience (his experience, not marketing), he felt they were the same.

I agree that it seem like the gatorskins are supposed to be more flat resistant - don't have experience to compare/contrast them myself though.

Kojak

All true. We wish (at the very least) that the Marathon Plus were available in a 630. I'm not sure how common this size is outside the US, but the 635 is commonly used on bikes in India, China and the Netherlands. It's fair to say that if I were responsible for Return on Investment numbers with regard to making tires and tire molds, I'd probably make tires for those markets as well.

Kojak

I'm not speaking about marketing either, I'm talking about real world applications.

That Ziemas has had good luck with the Gatorskins is great. I've had great luck commuting on Michelin Axial Pros, Michelin Pro Race 1 and 2, and on Schwalbe Ultremos and Durano S tires. I rarely (as in almost never) get flats (please spare me flat gods, I'm only making this statement to make a point), that does not mean that the tires I use are as flat resistant as the Marathon Plus, or even the Ultra Gatorskin; they are not.

I would guess that Ziemas has more than a few miles in the saddle, and knows how to ride a bike in a way to minimize flats. You combine that with a nice tire which is built for endurance and protection, it's a really effective combination. That does not empirically make one tire as flat resistant as another. All things equal, the MP is much better at preventing/eliminating flats. If this were not true; if the Gatorskin was "just as effective", then Conti would not be introducing the Touring Plus.... (wonder where they came up with the name "Plus"?...... Genius).

PaulRivers

Sure, no, it's totally possible. Spend enough time on the boards and you'll hear all kinds of crazy anecdotal experiences from people.

I would be interested in other people's experiences with Gatorskins vs gp4000.

However, while the gatorskins are theoretically tougher, that's not the first time I've heard someone say they've used both and they thought the gp4000's were just as flat resistant as the gatorskins (to be fair, I've also heard the opposite). There are other things that differentiate the 2 tires as well - the gp4000's are far more expensive, and apparently they wear out sooner than the gatorskins. And you could be right that it's a matter of riding style and the road they ride on - I've personally never gotten a flat from a puncture since I got my Panaracer TServ tires (I've gotten a pinch flat, and 2 bad valve stems, but no flats the tire could have prevented), but I have no doubt (just like you said) that if I was riding on really terrible roads I would be able to tell the difference in number of flats between my tserv's and the Schwalbe Marathon Plus's (or the Specialized Armadillo's).

Just sayin' - just because marketing says they're different (and actually, I'm not sure Continental really makes any claims about the difference between the gatorskins and gp4000's) doesn't mean that real world experience will end up being different.

Marketing can be tricky. Schwalbe for example (*cough*, *cough*) gives both the Marathon, and the Marathon Plus a 5/5 for "Protection" (aka puncture resistance), both in the main rating and in "puncture" and "sidewall". (NOTE - I just looked it up to check, I guess now they give the regular marathon a 5/5, and the "plus" a ... 6 out of 5 in the main rating. If a tire gets 4/5, there's an empty box for the 5th one. For 6/5, they don't give the "5" one an empty box, but they add an additional box for the 6 and make it blue...how would you describe that? 6/5? 6/5 "blue"? Marketing...sheesh.)

Kojak

I'm not a big fan of the rating scales that we have. They give a general idea as to the purpose of the tire, but as you state, when the rating is 1-5, you're going to get some instances where the ratings don't reconcile. As for the Marathon vs. the Marathon Plus, the difference in the rating scale is that the Marathon is 5 gray boxes, the Plus is 5 Blue boxes. Blue denotes (in our case) the highest possible ranking. This last subtle difference is not always apparent as one is flipping back and forth between pages. A rating scale of 1-100 would work better, but wouldn't fit neatly into a catalog or on a webpage. In Schwalbe's case (and likely in Michelin and Conti) I do believe that the information provided is useful (when combined with other sources of information).

I think one has to look do their research if they are looking for the "perfect" tire. My own opinion is that the "perfect" tire doesn't exist, at least not in reality. There are always trade-offs. If you want the best puncture protection, you're going to compromise on road feel and grip. If you want a tire with the best possible road feel and grip, it's not going to provide much puncture protection, and it's going to wear out relatively quickly.

With regard to "marketing", I think most of the name brand tire manufacturers do a pretty good job of making a quality tire, and describing how the tires are made and what their purpose is in their literature. In the end, the proof really comes down to what the consumers say about a product; marketing can't change what actually happens in the real world.