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Death of a bicycle shop

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Death of a bicycle shop

Old 11-16-19, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by sykerocker
First off, thank you very much. PM will be sent as soon as I finish this post.
Syke, I’m not at the computer right now and BF is next to impossible to use on the phone - but do you have a pic of the Armstrong?

I bet it could be straightened. It’s whether the steel’s ductility has suffered would be my worry.

-Kurt
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Old 11-16-19, 05:18 PM
  #52  
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Latest update: Got the proposed contract, work list from the reclamation company. I should have the check on the buildings in my hand by the middle of next week, and the down payment check in the builders hand within 48 hours after that. I'm hoping to have the house back in proper shape by Christmas, the rebuilding of the garage to start shortly afterwards (if it hasn't started already by that point).

This is going to be interesting, because while the shell will probably be identical (had considered having to expand it into a two-car garage, but that'd take a loan, and I'm not exactly in the mood to go into debt, the inside is getting some serious thinking based on my Montpelier bike shop, and what I had to work with in the current building. The builders will be leaving me with an exterior finished, interior completely unfinished, completely wired including two 230v outlets, one inside, one outside. My plans for my next car is a a used Nissan Leaf or Kia Soul EV, so I want the setup built in for Level 2 charging.

Interior paneling, insulation (should I decide to) and finishing a storage loft will be up to me. After which, one huge new toolbox and workbench. Then I start the serious tool shopping.
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Old 11-16-19, 09:09 PM
  #53  
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Increase the wall height a bit... the extra cost should be incremental - lumber comes 8, 10, 12'... I assume the roof pitch matched the house...
the extra volume I think would be very worthwhile
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Old 11-17-19, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888
Syke, I’m not at the computer right now and BF is next to impossible to use on the phone - but do you have a pic of the Armstrong?

I bet it could be straightened. It’s whether the steel’s ductility has suffered would be my worry.

-Kurt
Took a bunch today while I was doing the first pass on the contents claim (up to $7000.00 replacement already), and I haven't gotten into the bicycle parts yet. In fact, I'm still digging (via memory) thru the tool boxes. They're locked shut from the heat and warpage.



This one is shot straight down the seat tube. Notice the curve to the left of the frame, with about a 15 degree lean to the left on the steerer tube?



Seat tube from the front. The rear triangle is angled a good 30 degrees to the left from the seat post bolt.



Rear hub. I'm definitely going to pull the SA hub and sometime later try to save it. It freaked me out how the spokes gave from the heat. That was a perfectly trued wheel at one time.



A better view of the rear triangle showing how the heat warped it.



The fork, amazingly, doesn't look all that bad. Here again, you can see the twist in the frame.

The bike is not getting tossed. I fully intend to tear it down and hopefully can save the components. I figure the crank and brake parts can eventually be rechromed. Bars seem to be pretty decent. There's a bag of parts sitting in my office that was a later shipment from the seller, supposedly the remaining missing brake bits and some other things. I was going to finally open the bag Tuesday and start installing them.
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Old 11-17-19, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage
Increase the wall height a bit... the extra cost should be incremental - lumber comes 8, 10, 12'... I assume the roof pitch matched the house...
the extra volume I think would be very worthwhile
Nice thought. I'm still hoping against hope that I can widen the garage into two bays which would potentially give me a permanent shop again like I had at the Montpelier house. However, that would probably mean a loan of some sort, and I'm really trying to avoid that. At the moment, I'm looking at about $4,000.00 out of pocket to fix things up all around (my policy has limitations for outbuildings, while giving me just about carte blanche on getting the house put back to rights), which I can do. There's definitely going to be some improvements over what I was working with, primarily in electrical service, and I'll be adding 230v because I'm looking at a used Nissan Leaf as an around town errand runner when the weather's too lousy to use the motorcycles.

Looking forward to hearing from the builder tomorrow.
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Old 11-18-19, 12:43 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by xiaoman1
I am sorry to see this happen. Accidents like this should make us more aware of what are insurance will and will not cover...some insurance companies want a separate policy to cover collectibles.
Best, Ben
It can be considerably more complicated than just a collectible issue. If the insurance company decides you had a business in the building there might not be any coverage for any of it. The policy is very specific about what you do in a garage. Call the agent up and ask to read the policy language. It's an eye opener if you've never done it before.
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Old 11-18-19, 01:06 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude
Heat-treatment - and not the good kind

That's gotta be one of the saddest photos I've ever seen on BF. DD
If you're going to quote somebody, don't include the pictures. We've seen them already and it just slows everything down.

Originally Posted by sykerocker
Interior paneling, insulation (should I decide to) and finishing a storage loft will be up to me. After which, one huge new toolbox and workbench. Then I start the serious tool shopping.
Maybe you could put on a second story and make it much taller rather than wider. That would make a lot more storage space.
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Old 11-18-19, 01:12 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by sykerocker
Right now, no. That Armstrong was the only project I had going forward, and the only other bike on the schedule is that the '77 PX-10, which is a long, long, long term project. I've got my traveling toolbox from my Honda House days, so I've got something to work with, and the small barn which is normally woodshed and lawn and garden storage can be used to work on a bike if necessary. Right now it's snowing outside (we were only supposed to get rain), so my first priority is to go thru the bicycle tools tool box and see if I can save any of that stuff. Otherwise I'm just going to replace what was burned, bit by bit.

Most immediate holdup is getting electric power to the outlying sheds. My setup was power running from the house to the shop/garage, then the two drop in sheds and second garage tapping off the garage. Hopefully I can have that sorted out by the end of the year.

Helpfully, Sears is closing all it's stores in Virginia between December and January. Guess who's probably going to give his Sears card one last workout before putting it away permanently?

I'm shutting down the books on Syke's Cyclery, and will probably get in touch with the county to drop the business license and the state to drop the tax license. The shop had a good run and I enjoyed myself, now its just time to scale back to whatever is needed to keep my collection on the road. Definitely not looking to buy anything at Westminster next February. Not until I've got the space to build and store.
Originally Posted by sykerocker
Nice thought. I'm still hoping against hope that I can widen the garage into two bays which would potentially give me a permanent shop again like I had at the Montpelier house. However, that would probably mean a loan of some sort, and I'm really trying to avoid that. At the moment, I'm looking at about $4,000.00 out of pocket to fix things up all around (my policy has limitations for outbuildings, while giving me just about carte blanche on getting the house put back to rights), which I can do. There's definitely going to be some improvements over what I was working with, primarily in electrical service, and I'll be adding 230v because I'm looking at a used Nissan Leaf as an around town errand runner when the weather's too lousy to use the motorcycles.

Looking forward to hearing from the builder tomorrow.
Originally Posted by cs1
It can be considerably more complicated than just a collectible issue. If the insurance company decides you had a business in the building there might not be any coverage for any of it. The policy is very specific about what you do in a garage. Call the agent up and ask to read the policy language. It's an eye opener if you've never done it before.
Right on all counts...I hope that skywalker has all of his ducks in a row when speaking with the insurance company.
Best, Ben
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Old 11-18-19, 01:22 PM
  #59  
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A couple of notes:

1-Collectibles are not generally covered at "collectible" value unless specifically listed for an agreed value. That includes bikes, so many of us should check our own coverages. In the case of the Armstrong, for example, it's technically a steel bike frame, but it's likely he'll get a limits check, anyway, for all the contents, and then be able to do what he wants.

Another good example is my KG196. On paper, it's a carbon bike with a 9sp group. Destroyed, it's a carbon bike with a 9sp group. The $8,000 and $9,000 it's bringing with OEM wheels and Zap or Mektronic don't mean a whole lot. If I wanted to insured it for $8,000 or $9,000, that's my choice, but I'd have to show real sales of same at that level if I wanted to claim that much. Sophisticated evaluation firms generally drill a bit deeper into actual sales in the case of something like a KG196 that has a high stated value.

2-It appears Syke has a business policy, as a homeowner's policy would have pretty low limits on any business personal property. This means he did it all right up front and did not misrepresent anything. He's a smart guy, so I figured he'd have it right. A hint: If you have your bike stuff on a homeowner's policy, and you've sold or bought on CL, eBay or CR or paceline, or even here, some of the searches may well turn you up as a business, and this severely limits your coverage. So, you can either lower your expectations, or like Syke, get the right coverage. It's not that expensive. You just pay commeasurate with your risk. If you are a local flipper, and you have a loss like Syke's, the carrier may well find out and then you've got more issues than a loss with too little coverage; you have trouble getting any future carriers to believe you and provide coverage.

3-Very likely, once he gets his inventory in, he'll be at his limits, which is a good thing in many ways; simplifies the claim, and he can collect his indemnities and move on. The downside is, it may not be as much as the total stuff is worth. We pick our limits, pay accordingly, and should know what is up.

4-Good luck to Syke. I've met him and he's a square guy.

5-There is generally a conflict between what people think, because they really don't know squat, about claims, and what the reality is. Getting the right coverage up front is a lot easier than having to stomp your foot and cry like a baby when you don't get your way. I deal with those every day. When I get a guy like Syke, it's always a pleasure.

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Old 11-18-19, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by xiaoman1
Right on all counts...I hope that skywalker has all of his ducks in a row when speaking with the insurance company.
Best, Ben
Me too, doing it for a living has taught me a lot of lessons. If he has a vendor's licence then you're definitely a business. Hopefully he was insured. Then there will be coverage for the damage done to his home in the fire.
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Old 11-18-19, 02:17 PM
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How very sad. I'm very sorry for you but so glad it didn't spread to your home. Hang it there!!
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Old 11-18-19, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Jicafold
If you're going to quote somebody, don't include the pictures. We've seen them already and it just slows everything down.
He must have forgotten YOU were in charge of the world.
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Old 11-18-19, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cs1
Me too, doing it for a living has taught me a lot of lessons. If he has a vendor's licence then you're definitely a business. Hopefully he was insured. Then there will be coverage for the damage done to his home in the fire.
If it's insured only under a homeowner's policy, we need to stay tuned. The most common homeowner's policy in VA excludes other structures used at any time for any business reason, and limits business personal policy, severely. Some exclude coverage if any liquid or gaseous fuel is stored there. The adjuster generally sends a coverage analysis up the chain, and an examiner may note that and come right back down with a hammer.

I assumed Syke had some sort of commercial coverage and still hope he does.
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Old 11-18-19, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sykerocker
I meet with the insurance adjuster today. Talking to him on the phone yesterday did not give me a good feeling, or, at least reminded me that this is the guy who is NOT on our side in this mess. He opens with the comment about having to ensure that there's no evidence that the fire was set (read the fire marshal's report, *******?),
Standard practice. Fire Marshalls are not the ones who determine the origin and cause. I've never seen one that knew squat, or if he/she did, bothered to investigate. Insurers investigate for 2 reasons: 1-Coverage and 2-Subrogation.
Originally Posted by sykerocker
then during the conversation when I mentioned that this was my workshop for restoring antique bicycles, he immediately comes back with, "Oh, you were running a business out of there?" knowing damn well it's a homeowners policy.
Hmm.
Originally Posted by sykerocker
I'm shutting down the books on Syke's Cyclery, and will probably get in touch with the county to drop the business license and the state to drop the tax license. The shop had a good run and I enjoyed myself, now its just time to scale back to whatever is needed to keep my collection on the road.
It was a business, you've called it a bike shop and had a business license. It should not be on a homeowner's policy if that's the case, as no homeowner's policy is intended to cover a business.
Originally Posted by sykerocker
I have a feeling I'm going to have to take him to the other barn where my collection is stored, to explain the term "hobby". And, since it was an ancillary building, not the main living quarters that burned, there's going to be a definite limitation on rebuilding monies.
Called "Other Structures," and coverage is excluded if used "at any time for any business purposes."

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Old 11-18-19, 06:23 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Jicafold
It's embarrassing having to explain common sense to someone with over 9,00 posts or 26,000 posts. Sad but true. But let's not stray from the topic at hand.
Why not? You did. I can explain you pretty easily. Red Foreman would already have buried his foot where it belongs in you. Sorry if it slows you down...not. So, I'll get back to the topic at hand. Tragic fire, hope the best for any recovery and/or indemnity. Oh, and here are some pictures, just to remind you.
Originally Posted by sykerocker








.

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Old 11-18-19, 06:59 PM
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Okay. Let's stop with the back and forth bickering. Now.
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Old 11-18-19, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sykerocker
It freaked me out how the spokes gave from the heat. That was a perfectly trued wheel at one time.
I bet the spoke nipples melted and that's what caused the wheel to give way. They're normally brass or bronze, so they'd melt at a temperature where the steel spokes are just red-hot.
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Old 11-18-19, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by scarlson
I bet the spoke nipples melted and that's what caused the wheel to give way. They're normally brass or bronze, so they'd melt at a temperature where the steel spokes are just red-hot.
Hi,

just read the tragic news. I have a complete mens Armstrong 1948 28 inch wheels, rideable. Needs nothing. You may have it as a pre Christmas present, am in Doylestown Pa. I'll keep it for 6 months for you.

Best Wishes,

Jeff
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Old 11-18-19, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Rowse
Hi,

just read the tragic news. I have a complete mens Armstrong 1948 28 inch wheels, rideable. Needs nothing. You may have it as a pre Christmas present, am in Doylestown Pa. I'll keep it for 6 months for you.

Best Wishes,

Jeff
Thank you, I'll take you up on it. And around Memorial Day I do a reenactment at Our Lady of Cheztokowa (I know I'm killing the spelling, Polish isn't my strong point), which is how I picked up the burned bike this year.
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Old 11-18-19, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes
It was a business, you've called it a bike shop and had a business license. It should not be on a homeowner's policy if that's the case, as no homeowner's policy is intended to cover a business.
It WAS a business, back when I lived in Montpelier (2010-2014). You may remember the pictures of the 32 foot garage/shop that got quite a few nice comments, some bordering on jealousy, when I posted them five years ago. I moved to my current location in 2015, and while I kept the license on file with the county (it cost me about $25.00 a year in taxes, most of that as penalties for not doing the annual property filing), and my VA sales tax license was for Syke the Shirtmaker (my reenactment clothing), plus I never did a commercial job at the current site.

I had intended to get Syke's Cyclery going again this year, now that I'm retired from my real job, but it never took off. In the past four years, I did two repair jobs for one of my old customers who absolutely refused to believe I'd shut the shop down. And most of my pay was the '92 Diamonback Expert that is my only brifter equipped bike. Between my plans to get it going again not taking off, and now the complete loss of my facility, tools and inventory - plus I never hung out a shingle at the current site - I can't see keeping any of the legalisms going now.

The insurance adjustor had asked me about it, got the same answer, and was quite happy with it. And any questions he had about all the inventory hanging around were answered when I gave him a tour of my bicycle barn. He never realized that one person could own that many bicycles. And all of them were over 25 year old antiques.

I've been spending this evening working on detailing the losses (got the tools and hardware done, start on the bicycle parts tomorrow), or I would have caught this earlier and not let it go to this point. Robbie Tunes is right about the coverage thing, but I never overstepped the bounds on this property. Unless not bothering to cancel the tax account with the county is doing so.

Quite frankly, the late garage never physically worked about well enough to be efficient. Plus, the wife's car went in every night, so I'd have to pack up anything I was doing, and then set it all up the following morning.

Oh yeah, that Armstrong was not a contracted job for the WWII group. It was my bike, was going to be loaned to the group for Military Thru the Ages, and hopefully one of the women was going to decide she just had to have it.

I believe that covers everything? Sorry for getting things riled up.
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Old 11-18-19, 10:07 PM
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Perfect, live about a mile away.
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Old 11-18-19, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jicafold
Maybe you could put on a second story and make it much taller rather than wider. That would make a lot more storage space.
Local zoning laws might prevent that, but taller walls, say for 12' or 16' ceiling, might be doable even if there's no actual second story. Think hoists and library ladders, etc. That'll keep you young if building on the same footprint.
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Old 11-19-19, 07:18 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by sykerocker
It WAS a business, back when I lived in Montpelier (2010-2014). You may remember the pictures of the 32 foot garage/shop that got quite a few nice comments, some bordering on jealousy, when I posted them five years ago. I moved to my current location in 2015, and while I kept the license on file with the county (it cost me about $25.00 a year in taxes, most of that as penalties for not doing the annual property filing), and my VA sales tax license was for Syke the Shirtmaker (my reenactment clothing), plus I never did a commercial job at the current site.

I had intended to get Syke's Cyclery going again this year, now that I'm retired from my real job, but it never took off. In the past four years, I did two repair jobs for one of my old customers who absolutely refused to believe I'd shut the shop down. And most of my pay was the '92 Diamonback Expert that is my only brifter equipped bike. Between my plans to get it going again not taking off, and now the complete loss of my facility, tools and inventory - plus I never hung out a shingle at the current site - I can't see keeping any of the legalisms going now.

The insurance adjustor had asked me about it, got the same answer, and was quite happy with it. And any questions he had about all the inventory hanging around were answered when I gave him a tour of my bicycle barn. He never realized that one person could own that many bicycles. And all of them were over 25 year old antiques.

I've been spending this evening working on detailing the losses (got the tools and hardware done, start on the bicycle parts tomorrow), or I would have caught this earlier and not let it go to this point. Robbie Tunes is right about the coverage thing, but I never overstepped the bounds on this property. Unless not bothering to cancel the tax account with the county is doing so.

Quite frankly, the late garage never physically worked about well enough to be efficient. Plus, the wife's car went in every night, so I'd have to pack up anything I was doing, and then set it all up the following morning.

Oh yeah, that Armstrong was not a contracted job for the WWII group. It was my bike, was going to be loaned to the group for Military Thru the Ages, and hopefully one of the women was going to decide she just had to have it.

I believe that covers everything? Sorry for getting things riled up.
I feel so much better. I knew you had a shop, and I knew you moved, and you were taking care of your wife, etc, so I didn't think you were doing much, business-wise. (Though you could make it easily with the classic clothing stuff you do).

Your explanation above is about exactly what I'd put in my file notes, "extensive hobby, not a shop, was a quasi-shop at a previous location, but this is not set up for any kind of revenue. Hobbyist with skills, assisting others but not for pay." Like 99% of us.
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Old 11-19-19, 12:02 PM
  #74  
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Damn, that is traumatic! My garage is a bike shop too. That term you used "unspecified electrical" would worry me, as I rewired mine myself. I sometimes wonder what I would grab in case of fire. Guitars in the house would win out over bikes in the garage.
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Old 11-19-19, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cb400bill
Okay. Let's stop with the back and forth bickering. Now.
Gotcha, us insurance guys love to speculate on these things.
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