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Back to road bikes--long distance advice

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Back to road bikes--long distance advice

Old 10-05-20, 07:37 AM
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pm124
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Back to road bikes--long distance advice

Hi all--I haven't raced or ridden road bikes since I was a teenager. My usual bike is an M5 carbon high racer recumbent.

But the country I'm in just doesn't sell fast recumbent racing bikes and has huge import taxes. So, now I'm on a new Emonda SL6 disc I bought on sale. I have already scheduled a bike fit and am preparing my ego for not being able to go 25MPH anymore on the flats. I'm going to run 28mm Conti 5000s. Does anyone have any tips on making long distance rides bearable on that little seat? Should I ask the bike fit pro to set me up a little higher on the bars for touring? The bike is an "H2" so it is already a little less aggressive than a racing frame.

I used to be able to do 125 miles in a day and feel like I just took a nice walk. I'm a little bit scared about this transition. The big plus will be when I hit the hills, so I'm going to choose as many hilly routes as possible.
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Old 10-05-20, 08:16 AM
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Buy a saddle that fits.

I’m partial to Brooks B-17.
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Old 10-05-20, 08:19 AM
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Practice. Micro-adjust as your body adapts. Enjoy.
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Old 10-05-20, 08:58 AM
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A saddle that works for you is key. See if the shop doing your fit also has demo saddles available to try. Invest in a good pair of cycling shorts and some decent chamois cream as well. Also, don't go out and try to smash 125 miles your first ride out on it.
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Old 10-05-20, 09:08 AM
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Comfort and reliability are key, don’t want to be stranded 50miles from no-where-ville with no cell service.

I never intended to become a retro-grouch, but here we are:
A good aluminum rim with 24-28 spokes is more comfortable than super stiff deep-V carbon wheels.
Consider carefully tubeless. You may wind up with a few more flats with an inner tube, but you can repair flats road side in 10 mins without (too much) swearing or getting sealant all over yourself.
Electronic shifting is awesome, but the ‘distance’ bike is mechanical shifting, if the electrical shifting dies you’re stuck in a single gear. With mechanical shifting you will likely be able fix roadside to continue riding.
I prefer somewhat wider handle bars (1-2 cm), set a little higher compared to purebred racing bike, a little bit lower bottom bracket, but still like responsive handling so my distance geometry is more or less classic European road bike for head tube and seat tube angles.

Before getting a bike fit take some really long rides. I never had any problems up to 100 miles, but when I started doing double-centuries and longer the inside of my left knee would start hurting at about mile 150. Knowing how you feel after many hours on your bike will help your get the most out of your bike fit.
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Old 10-05-20, 09:38 AM
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If you try to keep your hips upright on the saddle by rounding your back, then you are making it difficult for the saddle to be comfortable. You have to abandon any of the perineal scare that has been popularized since before the turn of the century. Sure it is a thing for some very few.

Keep you back straight, lean forward and pedal at a good effort. The pedaling forces will lighten everything about how you sit on both the saddle and bars if you are balanced around your BB.

I like saddles that have a fairly flat profile from nose to aft. Other's like a little rise, but they never worked for me. While many swear by leather saddles, I always wondered if they'd suffer from all the sweat that goes down my body and out through my shorts onto the saddle on long rides. I wanted one at one time, but I found much less expensive that are plenty comfortable for 60, 80 and 100 plus miles.
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Old 10-05-20, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
If you try to keep your hips upright on the saddle by rounding your back, then you are making it difficult for the saddle to be comfortable. You have to abandon any of the perineal scare that has been popularized since before the turn of the century.
Can you expand on this a bit. I have recently purchased a new bike and I find myself 'tweaking" the saddle after every ride in an attempt to make it more comfortable. Perhaps my saddle position is not the problem. I've been told by other riders that my hoods appear to be high. Perhaps this is keeping me upright in the saddle?
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Old 10-05-20, 10:28 AM
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You're getting a bike fit, so that's a huge and good first step. 28mm GP5000s is also a good choice. Wider means you can run them at a lower pressure.

Couple of things to keep in mind:
* Don't run too high a pressure. I like using the Silca tire pressure calculator.
* Buy good quality bike shorts. The padding in the good stuff is denser and just works better.
* It will take time to get comfortable on a road bike. You may experience numb hands, numb feet, numb in the you know what area, and a sore behind. That may be a sign of a bad fit, but usually it takes time to get used to the road bike position.
* My road bike is more comfortable the faster I ride. It's simply physics: the harder you pedal, the more you're pushing down on the pedals, which means your body is putting less weight on the bike. You're effectively lighter the harder you pedal.

But in the end, it usually just takes time on the saddle to get comfortable. Be patient - you'll get there.
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Old 10-05-20, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary in NJ
Can you expand on this a bit. I have recently purchased a new bike and I find myself 'tweaking" the saddle after every ride in an attempt to make it more comfortable. Perhaps my saddle position is not the problem. I've been told by other riders that my hoods appear to be high. Perhaps this is keeping me upright in the saddle?
What's uncomfortable about your current saddle? The type of saddle and saddle position is one of the hardest things to figure out IMO because it's so variable among riders.

Keep in mind that your body has 3 points of contact with the bike: hands, feet, and seat. If you raise your hoods / handlebars, you're moving more of your body weight to your seat. If you lower your hoods (look up what a Tour de France rider looks like), you're moving weight forward onto your hands.

It's a complicated question. Provide more info and I think you'll some ideas for things to try.
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Old 10-05-20, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary in NJ
Can you expand on this a bit. I have recently purchased a new bike and I find myself 'tweaking" the saddle after every ride in an attempt to make it more comfortable. Perhaps my saddle position is not the problem. I've been told by other riders that my hoods appear to be high. Perhaps this is keeping me upright in the saddle?
To a large extent, maybe I've ridden a bike so long and put up with some uncomfortable saddles, that maybe a even six inch piece of 2x4 stuck on the seat post will be comfortable to me. Don't know. But there is something to be said for just having to get used to it. If all I do are short rides for a time, then even the first couple long rides after months of short rides have some saddle pains in my butt.

In one aspect of what I said I'm talking about how some seem to think of balancing the weight on their hands by balancing on the saddle. All that does is put more weight in the saddle. A road bike position is not upright. You are leaning forward and you will have weight on your hands and wrists.

Though it can be done, I firmly believe that a road bike is not made for leisurely riding. It's expected that you are going to be putting out some reasonable amount of power for the distance intended to be traveled. So if you think of balancing that power over the BB, then the opposite reaction to the force you put into the BB will reduce both the weight your butt and wrists/hands feel. Because I think of balancing the power over the BB, my saddle is further forward than many others that gripe about their butts and go the other way with huge set back on their seat posts, which makes me wonder why they didn't get a cruiser style bike with the seat tube angle that wouldn't require that grossly setback seat post. Essentially they took a road bike geometry and made it fit like a cruiser. But I digress......<grin>

Getting back to the road bike position I mentioned, another aspect of reducing the weight felt on you wrists/hands is being bent over, the more you bend, the more the trunk of your body resists that bending and reduces how much weight you feel on the bars. So back when newb and riding with little bar drop from saddle to bars, I griped more than I do now with a slight 4" drop from saddle to bars. Not extreme, but definitely in the opposite position from the upright people mistakenly think is the comfortable position.

I'm not sure what your friends are meaning about your hood position. Mine extend out from the bar pointing more forward than up. I see many old style brakes on drop bars pointing more up than forward and perhaps a few with their STI's like that also. Is it wrong? I don't know. Fit depends on so many other things that are assessed together to determine where to go with a specific thing you can adjust.

As well as going lower with bars, I'm going back to the narrower bars of my Raleigh. 38 cm wide. I put 42 cm on my Paramount and my Tarmac came with 42 cm bars. However both always had me riding with my wrists bent after riding moderate distances. That makes for wrist pain that might mistakenly be interpreted as weight on wrists. I didn't have this issue on 38 cm bars although my shoulder measurements say I can even use a 44 cm wide bar. When I get them in and ride them for a time I'll find out whether it's a valid point or not.

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Old 10-05-20, 10:53 AM
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My seat and the top of my stem are about the same height. Not that unusual as my bike is an endurance geometry. My stem has a 7 degree rise, and my bars seem to duplicate and continue that rise. I do think that I'm trying to "sit" on my saddle.

Another data point, since I started riding in July I have to stretch and extend my left arm every 15-20 minutes to relieve numbness in my hand. I was hoping that the new bike would help fix this, but it's just the same. I have no problem with my right hand, but my reaching a replacing the water bottle might provide enough of a stretch.

As a result of this numbness I am trying to keep weight off my hands (causing me to place more weight on the saddle). I touch the bars with an open hand and try not to grip the bars. I'm starting to believe that I might be approaching my fitment on my bike completely wrong.
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Old 10-05-20, 01:13 PM
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So at lunch time I went out and made some adjustments to me on the bike. The first photo is the before and the second is the after.

First I made the bars parallel to the ground. After going for a brief ride I realized that I had to change the angle of the seat, more nose down. These two changes seemed to put my three contact points in balance. I also raised the seat about 10mm and moved the seat back maybe 5mm.

I feel more comfortable on the bike. I’m sitting less on the saddle and my weight is more evenly distributed on the bike. I also feel more relaxed. I’ll take it out for 20-30 miles tomorrow and report back.
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Old 10-05-20, 01:38 PM
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Sometimes a particular saddle just doesn't work for you. I went through, I think, 5 saddles before settling on the model I use. What was happening was I was riding farther and thus spending more time in the saddle and over the miles the issues with each new one would manifest - one was comfortable for 10 miles, but by 20, things were going numb that I absolutely didn't want to go numb! I ended up with a saddle that's wide at the back but narrow through the 'neck', that has a pronounced 'dip' in the middle as well as a 'trough'. I liked it so much I bought 4 of them when I found the company was going out of business!
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Old 10-05-20, 04:04 PM
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My Fuji Sportif set up for maximum comfort .... first from 2017, second from 2020, I think. The hoods angle up slightly from the top of the bars, which are pretty much horizontal, so I can rest the heels of my hands on the bars and the palms on the hoods. Most people have the radial and ulnar nerves running pretty much up the middle of their hands, and if they press between the pad of the palm and the pad beneath the thumb they will pinch those nerves. I always make sire to have the bone at the far outside of my hand, under my little finger, resting on the bars, so I don't press on the nerves. I still have to shake out my hands from time to time but I don't get numb.

I have bikes with more seat-bar drop, but for long rides, riding tired, or hauling loads I find the smaller drop more comfortable. I experimented a lot to find good rising positions for each of my bikes.
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Old 10-05-20, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary in NJ
So at lunch time I went out and made some adjustments to me on the bike. The first photo is the before and the second is the after.

First I made the bars parallel to the ground. After going for a brief ride I realized that I had to change the angle of the seat, more nose down. These two changes seemed to put my three contact points in balance. I also raised the seat about 10mm and moved the seat back maybe 5mm.

I feel more comfortable on the bike. I’m sitting less on the saddle and my weight is more evenly distributed on the bike. I also feel more relaxed. I’ll take it out for 20-30 miles tomorrow and report back.
My first road bike was a Fuji Gran Fondo, 2013 model. Great bike. It's hard to tell from the angle of the photos, but in the first photo (the before pic), your handle bars are rotated extremely upwards. That's an unconventional setup. The second pic looks better, but the more common position is with the bars rotated even more downwards so that the hoods position is parallel to the ground.

Also, if that's the seat that came with the bike, you may want to try an aftermarket one. I couldn't stand the Oval seat that came with my Fuji.
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Old 10-06-20, 12:54 AM
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Plenty of good advice in here. Having been professionally fitted myself recently, I can tell you a few things from my experience -

1. Fitting a bike is like fitting a custom suit. One visit to your "tailor" won't cut it. I spent 90 minutes with my bike on a trainer and my bars, saddle, seat post, cleats, etc. were measured and adjusted. My stem was swapped out. I was told to ride at least 10 hours before coming back, and in the mean time, email my bike fitter with my impressions, both good and bad. Substantial changes were made the 2nd time around as my body adjusted to being in a more "proper" position, and the difference in comfort was huge.

2. Right before I decided to see a bike fitter, I did some research, and purchased a Fizik Argo short-nose saddle, 160mm width. I did this with no data to use. Luckily, I guess right, and 155-160 is the proper width for me. I had a Selle SMP previously, which was not comfortable for me. The correct saddle makes a world of difference. Have your bike fitter measure you, discuss how you sit on the saddle, and decide what shape you want. For me, when I'm on my sit bones, the short nose relieves pretty much all soft tissue pressure "down there" and it's been a revelation for me. I get zero saddle soreness, even after 2-3 hours (sorry, I haven't done longer rides on this saddle yet).

3. Spend the money on high quality shorts or bibs. I started with Sponeed 30 dollar shorts off Amazon, okay quality, but they aren't going to cut it for 2+ hour rides. Then, Aerotech touring shorts, which are pretty good for 2 hours. Today, I got Black Bib company bib shorts, their touring model, so we'll see how those go.

4. If you have a wide foot, get measured before you buy shoes. I bought Sidi Mega (wide width) shoes before getting fitted, because I have a wide foot, and they don't work. My metatarsal nerves get pinched, and I have to stop and rest my feet more often than I'd like to. I can do about 15-20 miles, then I need to stop for 5 minutes, and after that every 15-ish miles I have to stop. Otherwise, my feet are in horrible pain. Luckily, that problem has likely been sorted by being fitted for extra wide Lakes, but they're on backorder until late October (in the cool Chameleon Blue color I wanted, anyway)... so no big rides for me until those come in.
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Old 10-06-20, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by pm124
The big plus will be when I hit the hills
Maybe. I know a couple guys with both Bacchetta high-racers and road bikes, and they're not really worse on climbs on their 'bents than on their road bikes. They're slightly slower if a hill just shoots up in an unceasing steep gradient, but occasionally faster on the 'bent if a hill is really shallow or has dips on the way to the top. And I don't see why this shouldn't be the case: aside from sprint bursts, they can put out about as much power on the recumbents as on the road bikes, and the recumbents are only slightly heavier.

I think the biggest reason that people think recumbents are horrible climbers is that folks underestimate how aero an aggressive 'bent fit is. Neither the 'bent nor the roadies realize that the guy on the 'bent is far weaker than the roadies that he's keeping up with, so when the 'bent gets dropped on the hill, everyone assumes that the bike was the main issue.
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Old 10-06-20, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by HTupolev
Maybe. I know a couple guys with both Bacchetta high-racers and road bikes, and they're not really worse on climbs on their 'bents than on their road bikes. They're slightly slower if a hill just shoots up in an unceasing steep gradient, but occasionally faster on the 'bent if a hill is really shallow or has dips on the way to the top. And I don't see why this shouldn't be the case: aside from sprint bursts, they can put out about as much power on the recumbents as on the road bikes, and the recumbents are only slightly heavier.

I think the biggest reason that people think recumbents are horrible climbers is that folks underestimate how aero an aggressive 'bent fit is. Neither the 'bent nor the roadies realize that the guy on the 'bent is far weaker than the roadies that he's keeping up with, so when the 'bent gets dropped on the hill, everyone assumes that the bike was the main issue.
No doubt a racing recumbent is blistering fast on rollers. On the 9W in New York, there is a point where I am still doing 40MPH 300 meters uphill into an 8% grade, so everyone else seems like they are standing still as you go by. But on the hills around here, we are talking about 6000 feet of climbing over 20km. That is a different story. I know that my average times will drop overall by 20-30%, but I am pretty confident I will be a better climber on the Trek on constant ascents. That's simple physics because you don't get any aero benefit when going slow. Let's see how much slower. I will report back, particularly if I get a power meter. :-)

Thanks for all the great advice everyone!! You have given me a lot to discuss with my bike fit pro, and I had overlooked shorts. Hopefully, he will be able to get me on a saddle that works.

Really, you are all sounding like you are trying to convince me to import a high racer. But we shall see how it goes!

If it doesn't go well, there will be an very light Trek frame for sale in Chiang Mai soon.

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Old 10-06-20, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SVTNate
If you have a wide foot, get measured before you buy shoes. I bought Sidi Mega (wide width) shoes before getting fitted, because I have a wide foot, and they don't work. My metatarsal nerves get pinched, and I have to stop and rest my feet more often than I'd like to. I can do about 15-20 miles, then I need to stop for 5 minutes, and after that every 15-ish miles I have to stop. Otherwise, my feet are in horrible pain. Luckily, that problem has likely been sorted by being fitted for extra wide Lakes, but they're on backorder until late October (in the cool Chameleon Blue color I wanted, anyway)... so no big rides for me until those come in.
Try different combinations of insoles. Most of my cycling shoes now have thicker insoles (or pairs of insoles) than they came with. That way, my feet are raised to the widest part of the shoe, given that the uppers of most shoes become narrower where they meet the sole.
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Old 10-06-20, 05:51 AM
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Be optimistic! A normal bike suits most cyclists very well. If you had an impairment or deformity that made a recumbent necessary you'd probably already be aware of it.
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Old 10-06-20, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
Try different combinations of insoles. Most of my cycling shoes now have thicker insoles (or pairs of insoles) than they came with. That way, my feet are raised to the widest part of the shoe, given that the uppers of most shoes become narrower where they meet the sole.

I have Specialized insoles in my Sidis. No help over long rides.
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Old 10-10-20, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
Be optimistic! A normal bike suits most cyclists very well. If you had an impairment or deformity that made a recumbent necessary you'd probably already be aware of it.
After the bike fit, much less pain. It was a great and educational experience as well. And at 200W, I'm only 3MPH slower than on the recumbent on flats. But I'm also a full MPH faster on a 10% uphill grind. So, so far so good! I'm not feeling like 125 miles is doable yet, but I know other people do it on upright bikes. The other advantage is being able to stand on very rough roads.
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Old 10-10-20, 09:47 PM
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Glad its working out for you. Take it slow in terms of getting to 125 miles. Your body will get stronger and be able to handle the endurance if you go slow and are patient.
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Old 10-13-20, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
To a large extent, maybe I've ridden a bike so long and put up with some uncomfortable saddles, that maybe a even six inch piece of 2x4 stuck on the seat post will be comfortable to me. Don't know. But there is something to be said for just having to get used to it. If all I do are short rides for a time, then even the first couple long rides after months of short rides have some saddle pains in my butt.

In one aspect of what I said I'm talking about how some seem to think of balancing the weight on their hands by balancing on the saddle. All that does is put more weight in the saddle. A road bike position is not upright. You are leaning forward and you will have weight on your hands and wrists.

Though it can be done, I firmly believe that a road bike is not made for leisurely riding. It's expected that you are going to be putting out some reasonable amount of power for the distance intended to be traveled. So if you think of balancing that power over the BB, then the opposite reaction to the force you put into the BB will reduce both the weight your butt and wrists/hands feel. Because I think of balancing the power over the BB, my saddle is further forward than many others that gripe about their butts and go the other way with huge set back on their seat posts, which makes me wonder why they didn't get a cruiser style bike with the seat tube angle that wouldn't require that grossly setback seat post. Essentially they took a road bike geometry and made it fit like a cruiser. But I digress......<grin>

Getting back to the road bike position I mentioned, another aspect of reducing the weight felt on you wrists/hands is being bent over, the more you bend, the more the trunk of your body resists that bending and reduces how much weight you feel on the bars. So back when newb and riding with little bar drop from saddle to bars, I griped more than I do now with a slight 4" drop from saddle to bars. Not extreme, but definitely in the opposite position from the upright people mistakenly think is the comfortable position.

I'm not sure what your friends are meaning about your hood position. Mine extend out from the bar pointing more forward than up. I see many old style brakes on drop bars pointing more up than forward and perhaps a few with their STI's like that also. Is it wrong? I don't know. Fit depends on so many other things that are assessed together to determine where to go with a specific thing you can adjust.



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As well as going lower with bars, I'm going back to the narrower bars of my Raleigh. 38 cm wide. I put 42 cm on my Paramount and my Tarmac came with 42 cm bars. However both always had me riding with my wrists bent after riding moderate distances. That makes for wrist pain that might mistakenly be interpreted as weight on wrists. I didn't have this issue on 38 cm bars although my shoulder measurements say I can even use a 44 cm wide bar. When I get them in and ride them for a time I'll find out whether it's a valid point or not.
I am curious. It would be interesting to see what position most people prefer for long stretches. The vast majority of my time I spend on the tops. Even so I can’t imagine going back to 38’s. Imaginary or not I like how the 42’s let me open up my chest for better breathing.
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