Heavy Bikes are better !
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I'm not sure about the physics of this claim, but I do know that I strongly prefer a lighter bike for commuting in a city. I'm safer if I can better keep up with the flow of traffic (rather than being passed by more vehicles) and get through intersections more quickly.
In commuting, safety outweighs all other concerns.
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From experience, I can state categorically this is true. When people have asked me whether they should spend the money for a lighter bike, my first question is usually whether they're going to need to carry it and the follow up is whether they have a bad back.
Heavy bikes aren't just heavy, negotiating security doors, etc., and carrying them around staircase corners can be very awkward.
Last edited by livedarklions; 10-29-20 at 07:09 AM.
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You can shift to a heavier gear on a lighter bike which means that with the same force applied you go faster than with a heavier bike in a smaller/lower gear. A light bke doesn't mean you can't get a proper workout. It just means you can go faster for the same effort. Hence why carrying all your touring gear means you go slower than if you weren't carrying it.
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I know for a fact you can ride a lighter bike faster than a heavier bike. And in a higher gear for the same effort.
Edited to add:
Or maybe it's completely flat where you are, meaning you can't really tell a difference when at speed - and at speeds where wind resistance isn't a factor?
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In commuting, yes.
But what about if you're hauling >30 lbs of groceries (unless you never haul groceries with your bike?)? Eventually you'll need to build up strength so you can keep up with traffic if you really want to be safe and not just depend on the bike's weight. I do agree with you about keeping up/pacing the traffic is safer than having them pass you with a large speed difference.
But what about if you're hauling >30 lbs of groceries (unless you never haul groceries with your bike?)? Eventually you'll need to build up strength so you can keep up with traffic if you really want to be safe and not just depend on the bike's weight. I do agree with you about keeping up/pacing the traffic is safer than having them pass you with a large speed difference.
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My average speed in city riding is only marginally better in my road bike than the MTB even if putting out the same effort.
I'm simply arriving at the traffic stop (red light) sooner on the road bike. Which means I have longer times resting (waiting for the red light to turn green) which would actually mean I'm having more rest periods (receiving less workout) in the road bike.
Even Strava shows the same. Though I'm faster in segments in the road bike, the average speed or time spent in the route is about the same in the road bike and MTB. It means I'm completing the segments sooner but spending longer time not moving in the traffic stops.
I'm simply arriving at the traffic stop (red light) sooner on the road bike. Which means I have longer times resting (waiting for the red light to turn green) which would actually mean I'm having more rest periods (receiving less workout) in the road bike.
Even Strava shows the same. Though I'm faster in segments in the road bike, the average speed or time spent in the route is about the same in the road bike and MTB. It means I'm completing the segments sooner but spending longer time not moving in the traffic stops.
Like I said, different riders, different cities. I'm covering a lot more ground riding a fast light bike in the Boston area than I could do on a heavy bike. Whatever workout gain I get from the marginal increase in effort at a traffic light on the heavy bike I more than make up for by getting to more lights on the light bike and increasing my riding range.
I know from previous postings that you are a lot lighter than I am, so differences in bike weights are a lot smaller proportion of the gross vehicle weight for me than they are for you. That probably makes it a bigger difference in effort per mile for you than it does me.
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The only dilemma here if riding the same route and comparing between heavy and light bike, you'll arrive at the destination sooner with the lighter bike if spending the same effort. That means less calories burned because you were riding at the same effort you would with a heavier bike but in a shorter period of time.
To actually achieve the same workout level with a heavier bike with a lighter bike, you'll have to pedal at a higher effort than you would with a heavier bike. Of course, this is only feasible to do if it's safe (to cruise at significantly higher speeds)
To actually achieve the same workout level with a heavier bike with a lighter bike, you'll have to pedal at a higher effort than you would with a heavier bike. Of course, this is only feasible to do if it's safe (to cruise at significantly higher speeds)
You're assuming that the "correct" measure of the quality of workout is effort per mile. For me, the far more relevant measure would be effort per hour, and for those, there's really no significant difference. If I spend less effort on my fixed distance commute, I'm just going to ride more recreational miles.
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I'm not sure about the physics of this claim, but I do know that I strongly prefer a lighter bike for commuting in a city. I'm safer if I can better keep up with the flow of traffic (rather than being passed by more vehicles) and get through intersections more quickly.
In commuting, safety outweighs all other concerns.
In commuting, yes.
But what about if you're hauling >30 lbs of groceries (unless you never haul groceries with your bike?)? Eventually you'll need to build up strength so you can keep up with traffic if you really want to be safe and not just depend on the bike's weight. I do agree with you about keeping up/pacing the traffic is safer than having them pass you with a large speed difference.
But what about if you're hauling >30 lbs of groceries (unless you never haul groceries with your bike?)? Eventually you'll need to build up strength so you can keep up with traffic if you really want to be safe and not just depend on the bike's weight. I do agree with you about keeping up/pacing the traffic is safer than having them pass you with a large speed difference.
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I've ridden with 30 pounds of groceries on my bike quite a few times, there's no way I can accelerate as fast as I can on an unladen bike. But I've never experienced a situation where I thought the lack of acceleration somehow made me incapable of dealing with traffic or was otherwise a safety issue.
If someone is trying to ride comfortably in the traffic lane with a heavy load of groceries, that's their business, but I'm basically riding some form of FRAP most of the time, so I can't take this idea seriously at all.
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I've ridden with 30 pounds of groceries on my bike quite a few times, there's no way I can accelerate as fast as I can on an unladen bike. But I've never experienced a situation where I thought the lack of acceleration somehow made me incapable of dealing with traffic or was otherwise a safety issue.
If someone is trying to ride comfortably in the traffic lane with a heavy load of groceries, that's their business, but I'm basically riding some form of FRAP most of the time, so I can't take this idea seriously at all.
If someone is trying to ride comfortably in the traffic lane with a heavy load of groceries, that's their business, but I'm basically riding some form of FRAP most of the time, so I can't take this idea seriously at all.
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I don't ride in traffic with 30 lbs of cargo, either. Was just pointing out that cubewheels 's post makes no sense.
I was agreeing with you.
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What you seem to forget is that if you're strong - regardless of you being almost superhuman, you can still ride faster on a lighter bike.It's physics, you can't cheat it.
Try riding a cargo bike with 70-90 kgs on it and then do it with, say, 10 kgs afterwards. You'd be amazed at the difference.
Or, how about going bike touring at some stage. You will quickly notice that the more weight you're carrying, the slower you are. It doesn't matter how strong you are, you will always be faster on a lighter bike.
Try riding a cargo bike with 70-90 kgs on it and then do it with, say, 10 kgs afterwards. You'd be amazed at the difference.
Or, how about going bike touring at some stage. You will quickly notice that the more weight you're carrying, the slower you are. It doesn't matter how strong you are, you will always be faster on a lighter bike.
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All this makes you wonder why people who race professionally don't train on bikes whose tubes are filled with lead. I mean, heavier bikes are better, so their training bikes must weigh, oh, I don't know, 70-100 kilos, right.
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Here in Manila, it's very often someone in the leftmost lane (left turn only) would not turn left but gun it straight across, often involving multiple vehicles at a time. When I'm also turning left, I'm just at the right edge of the lane so I can quickly get to the rightmost lane after turning left.
To avoid getting cut off by cars going straight in the left most lane, I have to do a sprint start at my maximum power out of the saddle and. In the vast majority of cases, I can outpace the cars right up to the transition to the right lane. If I'm carrying groceries, I pedal out of the saddle all the way home for extra power, because otherwise, I'll be slower. I put all my groceries at the back of the bike for this reason to keep the rear wheel loaded and not bouncing all over the place when I'm out of the saddle pedaling.
To avoid getting cut off by cars going straight in the left most lane, I have to do a sprint start at my maximum power out of the saddle and. In the vast majority of cases, I can outpace the cars right up to the transition to the right lane. If I'm carrying groceries, I pedal out of the saddle all the way home for extra power, because otherwise, I'll be slower. I put all my groceries at the back of the bike for this reason to keep the rear wheel loaded and not bouncing all over the place when I'm out of the saddle pedaling.
2) Your rear wheel bounces when you stand up and pedal unless it's loaded down with groceries? What the hell?
#91
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Remember well.. a 'heavy hauler' in FL many winters ago. Loaded to around 3-4' width... riding a narrow busy highway.. sorta windy too. Me driving car towards him I see the semi w no intent on slowing much for the pass of said 'hauler'. I slowed ... now.. and got far right against railing. Sweep of wind did unsettle 'hauler'.. some ..nearly nailed by car following semi.
The semi and car "operators" are what they are.. circumstances of riding a bike. Yet 'hauler' riding that bike on that route was much, much more stooopid. Moronic.
The semi and car "operators" are what they are.. circumstances of riding a bike. Yet 'hauler' riding that bike on that route was much, much more stooopid. Moronic.
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Obviously.
I only wish to emphasize the workout value of heavier bikes if you ride close to the threshold. To burn the same calories in a lightweight bike, you'll need to go faster and farther. And that may not always be possible, especially when the roads are bad or the traffic doesn't give you the opportunity to speed.
I only wish to emphasize the workout value of heavier bikes if you ride close to the threshold. To burn the same calories in a lightweight bike, you'll need to go faster and farther. And that may not always be possible, especially when the roads are bad or the traffic doesn't give you the opportunity to speed.
In reality, you only need to use a higher gear on a lighter bike to spend the same amount of calories on a fixed distance as you would in a lower gear on the heavier bike. That's how home trainers/rollers work: Resistance.
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Obviously.
I only wish to emphasize the workout value of heavier bikes if you ride close to the threshold. To burn the same calories in a lightweight bike, you'll need to go faster and farther. And that may not always be possible, especially when the roads are bad or the traffic doesn't give you the opportunity to speed.
I only wish to emphasize the workout value of heavier bikes if you ride close to the threshold. To burn the same calories in a lightweight bike, you'll need to go faster and farther. And that may not always be possible, especially when the roads are bad or the traffic doesn't give you the opportunity to speed.
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I live in a poor country so not surprisingly, most of our roads are poorly maintained and consequently bumpy in a lot of sections.
If you watched my video I showed you in another thread, my rear wheel isn't bouncing off the rough sections when I'm out of the saddle. That's because I'm shifting my weight to the back. It's not my preferred out of the saddle position however but have to do it over rough patches to maintain traction.
If you watched my video I showed you in another thread, my rear wheel isn't bouncing off the rough sections when I'm out of the saddle. That's because I'm shifting my weight to the back. It's not my preferred out of the saddle position however but have to do it over rough patches to maintain traction.
My preferred out of the saddle position is my weight shifted more to the front but not applicable every time due to our bad roads. However, with heavy groceries at the back, I can maintain the ideal out of the saddle position all the time.
But, anyway, "heavy bikes are best"
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Pros have all the time and they even have vehicle ******* to train at the best effort / speed with their lightweight bikes - safely.
But we all can't train like pros. Us younger ones still have to work for a living, take care of someone, etc. So budget and time can be very limited, as well as other options. Just have to make do with what you have!
How do you think indoor trainers work?
Unless you have a singlespeed or fixie, you can change the resistance (i.e. "weight") as you please (gears for the win!). Hence, some are "spinners" and some are "mashers". I'm the latter, but trying to become more of a spinner after my amputation.
Perhaps I also need to remind you that I ride a cargo bike, and have been riding such bikes for years. Heavy is not good.
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There comes a point where extra weight in training becomes excessive as it alters the bike's handling considerably and can prove detrimental to handling skills when eventually riding on lightweight bikes.
I don't haul groceries in most of my rides.
Pros have all the time and they even have vehicle ******* to train at the best effort / speed with their lightweight bikes - safely. But we all can't train like pros. Us younger ones still have to work for a living, take care of someone, etc. So budget and time can be very limited, as well as other options. Just have to make do with what you have!
I don't haul groceries in most of my rides.
Pros have all the time and they even have vehicle ******* to train at the best effort / speed with their lightweight bikes - safely. But we all can't train like pros. Us younger ones still have to work for a living, take care of someone, etc. So budget and time can be very limited, as well as other options. Just have to make do with what you have!
Here's where I think you're getting in over your head in this "argument". If you want to say "under this particular set of circumstances, a heavier bike might give you a better workout than a lighter one", that's fine, but you've now qualified the general statement that heavier bikes give a better workout so much that it doesn't make much sense. I've carried 30 pounds of groceries on a 24 pound bike and on a 50 pound bike. If I have a choice, I'm going to take the 24 pound bike any day.
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I try to make heads and tale of what you're saying, and your response: That you didn't have any problems in a video you posted.
Make up your mind.
That would be the case if I'm sitted most of the time. But in the city with plenty of stops and accelerating, I ride with a heavy load almost entirely out of the saddle which helps load the front wheel with my body weight when out of the saddle.
And the need to put down more power when accelerating with cargo that's why out of the saddle.
I think it's impossible to lean over to the front too much.
If you did, you'll be unable to put down as much force on the pedals, you'll slow down, especially uphill, and it's quite noticeable.
Okay, you keep digging and keep contradicting yourself, so I will ignore you for a while in order to not completely ruin this thread too.
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I said I'd ignore you for a while, but taking your claims as they are put forth is not to "pick out [your] words and put together in a bad way". I have not edited your words. Especially not when you contradict yourself from one sentence to the next.
Okay, I'm done. People can re-read your contradictions up-thread.
Okay, I'm done. People can re-read your contradictions up-thread.
Last edited by CargoDane; 10-29-20 at 11:17 AM.
#100
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It's only a matter of time until some brave racer thinks outside the box, loads his/her bike down with weights for training, and then goes on to crush the competition at the races.
The following year the "monkey see, monkey do" mentality will spin the other way and everyone will be loading down their training bikes for that competitive edge. Noticing the trend, manufactures will quickly begin marketing specialized heavy "muscle building" training bikes. Bike Forums will have a sub forum devoted to 'em, where riders share their reverse weight weenie secrets and 100 kg will be the baseline for training bike bragging rights.
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