Tent Material in Question
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Tent Material in Question
A friend of mine has a tent for sale @ $100. It is a Jack Wolfskin and is made from polyester. It is about 5 or 6 years old and in good condition with only the stuff sack having a tear in it. I have never used a polyester fabric tent, only ripstop tents. I am planning a cross country ride and need to know if this material is durable enough to serve on a long tour such as this.
#2
Senior Member
Ripstop is a type of weave like twill or taffeta. Or rather not a weave but an addon feature to the fabric weave. Ripstop means it has thicker denier strands criss crossing the thinner denier fabric with the hope that a potential tear will stop at the thicker strand.
Both nylon and polyester can be ripstop.
With that out of the way the answer is: It depends on a lot of factors, but it's likely going to be just fine.
There are quite a few differences between polyester and nylon the latter of which is usually used in more high end tents and the former is commonly used in lower end tents. However this is not to say that polyester cannot be used in high end tents as it has some significant advantages to nylon. Also vice versa.
Durability:
Nylon is more durable. Kinda. When dry nylon has significantly more tensile strength than polyester. However when wet nylon's tensile strength drops below polyester's. Polyester however is not affected by humidity or wetness in any way. The other downside nylon has when wet is that it tends to sag. This means that a taut tent in the day can become saggy when it's raining, which may require correcting. The getting wet thing apparently cannot be completely remedied with waterproof coatings.
Resistance to elements:
This is where polyester shines. It is not sensitive to UV and is more resistant to chemicals than nylon. Thus polyester can handle significantly more direct sunlight than nylon. Though the waterproof coatings used in nylon tents usually have uv-protection built in the solution is not 100% effective kinda like sunscreen only extends the time one can stay in sunlight before burning. Whether uv-resistance is an issue largely depends on how and where the tent is used and also for how long and how much. If the tent is only rolled out at sundown and then packed at sunup, it's a complete nonissue. But if the tent stays put for days in the sun (like we tend to do on tours sometimes) then polyester may be a better option.
Coatings:
The reason polyester is used in many cheaper tents is not necessarily because it's cheaper per se, but because it's cheaper to make into a serviceable tent. This is due to coatings. More expensive tents use silicon coating for waterproofing and also for uv-protection with nylon tents. Silicon is superior as a coating as it does not degrade the fabrics durability (it might even make the fabric more durable), it allows the fabric to flow freely and it can be refreshed. The downside to silicon coating is that it usually needs to be double sided and it's more expensive than polyurethane coating.
A polyurethane coating is cheaper as it's typically one sided only and it's usually more waterproof. It however binds the strands in the fabric making the fabric stiff and less durable. This means that a PU-coated fabric needs to be thicker and heavier than silicon coated to reach the same durability. The other downside of PU-coating is that it degrades over time and when leaks start to appear it cannot be refreshed.
As mentioned above, nylon is UV-sensitive. This means that a nylon tent with a one sided PU-coating (as the coating is on the inside) will degrade quickly. Also the inside coating combined with the sagging tendencies of wet nylon might mean that the fabric or coating won't last long when properly tensioned in rain.
Summary:
A silicon coated polyester tent can be superior to a nylon tent depending on usage. However as polyester is more weather resistant, it can be PU-coated and is used in most lower end tents as a result. Resulting from that, the lower end tents are typically pretty heavy. As nylon can only really be silicon coated it's used in higher end tents which use more expensive materials. And nylon is initially more durable so there's that too.
TLR
I'm going on a limb and guessing that the tent OP is questioning about is a lower end PU-coated polyester tent (as that's what jack wolfskin tends to have on hand).
If the polyurethane coating has not degraded and the tent is still waterproof it should be more than good enough for a cross country ride. It usually takes much longer for the PU-coating to degrade than 5-6 years but apparently storage conditions do play a role there. Cool and dry is best.
I'd check the poles for cracks or deformations and replace when necessary.
It's likely pretty heavy but that's something the OP will have to weigh against other factors (budget, overall gear weight, etc).
A quick reference on weights.
Our first tent was an affordable small 2-person polyester dome tent. Weight was over 3kg.
Our current tent is a huge 3-person silicon coated polyester tunnel tent with a massive vestibule that could probably take even our bikes if we wanted to store them there. Weight is around 3kg.
Both nylon and polyester can be ripstop.
With that out of the way the answer is: It depends on a lot of factors, but it's likely going to be just fine.
There are quite a few differences between polyester and nylon the latter of which is usually used in more high end tents and the former is commonly used in lower end tents. However this is not to say that polyester cannot be used in high end tents as it has some significant advantages to nylon. Also vice versa.
Durability:
Nylon is more durable. Kinda. When dry nylon has significantly more tensile strength than polyester. However when wet nylon's tensile strength drops below polyester's. Polyester however is not affected by humidity or wetness in any way. The other downside nylon has when wet is that it tends to sag. This means that a taut tent in the day can become saggy when it's raining, which may require correcting. The getting wet thing apparently cannot be completely remedied with waterproof coatings.
Resistance to elements:
This is where polyester shines. It is not sensitive to UV and is more resistant to chemicals than nylon. Thus polyester can handle significantly more direct sunlight than nylon. Though the waterproof coatings used in nylon tents usually have uv-protection built in the solution is not 100% effective kinda like sunscreen only extends the time one can stay in sunlight before burning. Whether uv-resistance is an issue largely depends on how and where the tent is used and also for how long and how much. If the tent is only rolled out at sundown and then packed at sunup, it's a complete nonissue. But if the tent stays put for days in the sun (like we tend to do on tours sometimes) then polyester may be a better option.
Coatings:
The reason polyester is used in many cheaper tents is not necessarily because it's cheaper per se, but because it's cheaper to make into a serviceable tent. This is due to coatings. More expensive tents use silicon coating for waterproofing and also for uv-protection with nylon tents. Silicon is superior as a coating as it does not degrade the fabrics durability (it might even make the fabric more durable), it allows the fabric to flow freely and it can be refreshed. The downside to silicon coating is that it usually needs to be double sided and it's more expensive than polyurethane coating.
A polyurethane coating is cheaper as it's typically one sided only and it's usually more waterproof. It however binds the strands in the fabric making the fabric stiff and less durable. This means that a PU-coated fabric needs to be thicker and heavier than silicon coated to reach the same durability. The other downside of PU-coating is that it degrades over time and when leaks start to appear it cannot be refreshed.
As mentioned above, nylon is UV-sensitive. This means that a nylon tent with a one sided PU-coating (as the coating is on the inside) will degrade quickly. Also the inside coating combined with the sagging tendencies of wet nylon might mean that the fabric or coating won't last long when properly tensioned in rain.
Summary:
A silicon coated polyester tent can be superior to a nylon tent depending on usage. However as polyester is more weather resistant, it can be PU-coated and is used in most lower end tents as a result. Resulting from that, the lower end tents are typically pretty heavy. As nylon can only really be silicon coated it's used in higher end tents which use more expensive materials. And nylon is initially more durable so there's that too.
TLR
I'm going on a limb and guessing that the tent OP is questioning about is a lower end PU-coated polyester tent (as that's what jack wolfskin tends to have on hand).
If the polyurethane coating has not degraded and the tent is still waterproof it should be more than good enough for a cross country ride. It usually takes much longer for the PU-coating to degrade than 5-6 years but apparently storage conditions do play a role there. Cool and dry is best.
I'd check the poles for cracks or deformations and replace when necessary.
It's likely pretty heavy but that's something the OP will have to weigh against other factors (budget, overall gear weight, etc).
A quick reference on weights.
Our first tent was an affordable small 2-person polyester dome tent. Weight was over 3kg.
Our current tent is a huge 3-person silicon coated polyester tunnel tent with a massive vestibule that could probably take even our bikes if we wanted to store them there. Weight is around 3kg.
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#4
Full Member
Check reviews on the net. But I would not try to save money on a tent. A good tent will keep you safe and dry even in wild storms and will last for years. Also a good tent is probably the price of 7 nights in a hotel and you can use it for 100s of nights.
#5
Senior Member
I'll just add that I used what I am pretty sure was a low end UE coated polyester tent early in my touring career. Mine was a crazy heavy dome tent. Three of us were sharing it for 73 days on the Trans America and it saw lots of use car camping for years after. It got loaned out a lot to other people and is still fine now that it is a decade and a half old.
So yeah, no reason the polyester is likely to suddenly self destruct on your trip.
So yeah, no reason the polyester is likely to suddenly self destruct on your trip.
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
elcruxio, your information is excellent and more definitive than what I found in my web search. You must write texts for a living, or perhaps an engineer. I put the tent up yesterday and it goes together nicely. Will require a ground cloth as the bottom is thin. Doors are big, very nice. Weight is 5.5 lbs, about the same as previous tents I have used. I pack light so extra weight in the tent is not an issue. I am fairly sure I will buy it. Next up is an air pad for sleeping. Certainly not going super light as I don't want punctures!
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I’ve been using the Sea to Summit Comfort Lite Insulated mattress for at least four years. Favorite mattress ever. Not self-inflating, but empties quickly and is easy to roll up. 2.5” thick but not super heavy.
#8
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For a week long tour, I think you can use any tent. For a coast to coast tour where you are in your tent for two to three months, get a good tent.
Nylon will stretch much more than polyester. About a half century ago I spent six weeks in the rockies during one summer, my nylon tent was permanently stretched out of shape, the periodic snow falls put a lot of extra stress on the nylon. A polyester tent is less likely to stretch like that. Exception, some of the new silicone treated nylon tents appear to hold their shape quite well too.
The tent in the photo is a silicone treated nylon tent, at the time of the photo it had about seven weeks of use and was as good as new. I would take this coast to coast.
If you were going to sleep in your tent for 70 nights and paid $5 per night for a good tent, that is pretty cheap and it helps justify a more expensive tent.
The tent in the photo replaced one that was about two decades old, the newer one was about 3 or 4 pounds lighter too. I really liked the old tent that it replaced, but with the newer light weight tents I could no longer justify carrying that older heavy tent.
Nylon will stretch much more than polyester. About a half century ago I spent six weeks in the rockies during one summer, my nylon tent was permanently stretched out of shape, the periodic snow falls put a lot of extra stress on the nylon. A polyester tent is less likely to stretch like that. Exception, some of the new silicone treated nylon tents appear to hold their shape quite well too.
The tent in the photo is a silicone treated nylon tent, at the time of the photo it had about seven weeks of use and was as good as new. I would take this coast to coast.
If you were going to sleep in your tent for 70 nights and paid $5 per night for a good tent, that is pretty cheap and it helps justify a more expensive tent.
The tent in the photo replaced one that was about two decades old, the newer one was about 3 or 4 pounds lighter too. I really liked the old tent that it replaced, but with the newer light weight tents I could no longer justify carrying that older heavy tent.
#9
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A gal I used to work with was telling me that her boyfriend got a puncture, bought a second new air mattress and punctured that in exactly the same spot. They found a thorn in the tent floor.
I discovered part way through my last tour that self adhesive inner tube patches work well on air mattresses.
#10
Junior Member
I bought a big agnes fly creek ul hv 2 person new on sale for $195. It weighs about 2.5 lbs and is considered to be high end
it would be interesting to hear what elcruxio has to say about this tent
it would be interesting to hear what elcruxio has to say about this tent
Last edited by mark d; 03-29-21 at 06:04 AM. Reason: M
#11
Senior Member
Tihab, I'm another person with the view that given the length of the trip, it's worth spending the extra money on a very good quality new tent that has a known track record.
the other major factor is all the day to day practical stuff, ease of putting up, taking down, space inside, door placement, shape etc for strong winds..... but if you've never camped much, it may be hard to evaluate these things.
all I can say is that with day after day camping, you appreciate a well designed, well working tent, and totally worth the extra money compared to a "deal" on a used tent.
so many good new options, and by simply not staying in a motel a few times or not buying stuff you don't need, the saved money would cover the cost of a well chosen new tent.
also, a good tent will get used for years if using common sense with taking care of it.... again, no idea how much camping experience you have.
oh, and for a long trip, 2 person tents are ideal for person just because of the space for your stuff inside, for days off etc, worth the extra bit of weight imo.
the other major factor is all the day to day practical stuff, ease of putting up, taking down, space inside, door placement, shape etc for strong winds..... but if you've never camped much, it may be hard to evaluate these things.
all I can say is that with day after day camping, you appreciate a well designed, well working tent, and totally worth the extra money compared to a "deal" on a used tent.
so many good new options, and by simply not staying in a motel a few times or not buying stuff you don't need, the saved money would cover the cost of a well chosen new tent.
also, a good tent will get used for years if using common sense with taking care of it.... again, no idea how much camping experience you have.
oh, and for a long trip, 2 person tents are ideal for person just because of the space for your stuff inside, for days off etc, worth the extra bit of weight imo.
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#12
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elcruxio, your information is excellent and more definitive than what I found in my web search. You must write texts for a living, or perhaps an engineer. I put the tent up yesterday and it goes together nicely. Will require a ground cloth as the bottom is thin. Doors are big, very nice. Weight is 5.5 lbs, about the same as previous tents I have used. I pack light so extra weight in the tent is not an issue. I am fairly sure I will buy it. Next up is an air pad for sleeping. Certainly not going super light as I don't want punctures!
I'd advice on making the groundcloth yourself as it's really not difficult, it'll be cheaper that way and you can make it the right size. The groundsheet needs to absolutely be smaller than the outer tent and it's better if it's just large enough to fit under the inner tent. Otherwise there's a risk that rainwater will flow between the groundsheet and tent bottom, which can then push inside the tent. The exception is vestibule areas, which are properly covered by the outer tent. Covering the vestibule can reduce moisture accumulation inside the tent by blocking to a certain degree the moisture rising up from the ground.
Sleeping pads are a divisive topic. Some like a 3/4 size with the legs hanging out. Some like me prefer a full length pad (I'm 6'5" so I always need the heavier large-version pad). I'd pay some attention to the R-number of an inflatable pad as that gives some indication on how warm the pad will be. If you're summer touring in typical warm climates then even a pool float will work (I've actually seen people use pool floats as sleeping pads on tour). If you expect low temperatures then a pad with some insulation may be necessary. Though I fared quite nicely in sub freezing conditions with my Neoair Venture, which is not the warmest of pads.
In any case as mentioned in another post, a textile patch kit aimed towards tents and pads is something you should consider taking with you. You can extend the life of both tent and pad with one if you encounter punctures in either. My wife's exped ultralight has been in service for years now. One puncture that was easily fixed.
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#13
Senior Member
All good advice senor crux,
re groundsheets, I tend to use plastic cut to the tent floor shape, and as said, if it extends far past your tent floor, it will collect rain, but also can easily be folded under, downward toward ground a bit to not stick out. I have a plastic ground sheet from an older tent that i use with my 2p tent the few times I use it, and just fold the little bit extra under with no problem.
never get around to cutting it down in case I lend the old tent to someone.
re groundsheets, I tend to use plastic cut to the tent floor shape, and as said, if it extends far past your tent floor, it will collect rain, but also can easily be folded under, downward toward ground a bit to not stick out. I have a plastic ground sheet from an older tent that i use with my 2p tent the few times I use it, and just fold the little bit extra under with no problem.
never get around to cutting it down in case I lend the old tent to someone.
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#14
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I fully agree on wanting a two person tent. The morning when you have to travel and there is a constant rain, you will be happy that you can pack up all your gear in your panniers while you and your gear are still within the tent. Then once it is all packed, and it is still raining outside, that is when you pack up your tent.
There is a store near my home that has some giant shopping bags that are a very heavy duty plastic. I often use the plastic from their shopping bags as a ground sheet instead of buying one that is made for the tent. Some people have used Tyvek. The ground sheet is to protect the tent, if the ground is soft grass, I do not bother to unfold the ground sheet and just put the tent up.
There was a comment about ground sheet in vestibule. I have no complaints about the ground as long as it is in a grassy area. But my last tour, one campsite (the most costly one of the whole trip) was a tiny little site with no grass, mostly mud. There was a used newspaper in a recycle bin that I used to keep my stuff out of the mud, photo taken from inside the tent looking towards vestibule.
There is a store near my home that has some giant shopping bags that are a very heavy duty plastic. I often use the plastic from their shopping bags as a ground sheet instead of buying one that is made for the tent. Some people have used Tyvek. The ground sheet is to protect the tent, if the ground is soft grass, I do not bother to unfold the ground sheet and just put the tent up.
There was a comment about ground sheet in vestibule. I have no complaints about the ground as long as it is in a grassy area. But my last tour, one campsite (the most costly one of the whole trip) was a tiny little site with no grass, mostly mud. There was a used newspaper in a recycle bin that I used to keep my stuff out of the mud, photo taken from inside the tent looking towards vestibule.
#15
Senior Member
One night in bad weather, in a good tent, will convince you that every cent you spent on it was well spent.
I don't use a ground cloth, but carry a foam pad and a Sea to Summit inflatable mattress. I concur with Indyfab that it is terrific. My hope is that the foam pad will reduce wear on the tent bottom. I have a NEMO Hornet which is nominally two person, but I like the room, and being able to get everything in out of the rain.
I don't use a ground cloth, but carry a foam pad and a Sea to Summit inflatable mattress. I concur with Indyfab that it is terrific. My hope is that the foam pad will reduce wear on the tent bottom. I have a NEMO Hornet which is nominally two person, but I like the room, and being able to get everything in out of the rain.
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks to all for their input. The ride will consist oTf two parts. Part one is a ride from the Midwest where I live to the east coast and back. Part two the following year is a ride from the Midwest to the west coast and back. I will use this tent on part one and if it is determined ineffective, it will be replaced. I suspect my standards of performance are quite a bit lower than most here, so I am not concerned with the tent collapsing or blowing away in high winds as I have ridden out storms in an Eureka Timberline tent which is an A-frame design and not exactly great in high winds, but doable as long as it is pitched correctly.
With the information culminated from the answers above, I have determined that the material of the tent should do fine. Again, I thank all of you for the constructive input.
With the information culminated from the answers above, I have determined that the material of the tent should do fine. Again, I thank all of you for the constructive input.
#17
Senior Member
I will use this tent on part one and if it is determined ineffective, it will be replaced. I suspect my standards of performance are quite a bit lower than most here, so I am not concerned with the tent collapsing or blowing away in high winds as I have ridden out storms in an Eureka Timberline tent which is an A-frame design and not exactly great in high winds, but doable as long as it is pitched correctly.
There may be a time where site selection may be critical. We had a cheap tent and generally picked a site where there was some shelter from the wind, but never the used extra guy lines, only perimeter stake. At one campground during our Trans America the tents all looked like a homeless encampment. Expanses of blue tarps and duct tape were everywhere patching up broken tents. We didn't give it much thought until the sun dipped below the horizon and the air immediately started flowing down the canyon. The clothes all blew off our clothes line. We barely managed to get the tent down flat and laid on it to protect it. We decided to try to move to a better site. All of the sheltered sites were taken, but we managed to get behind a low rise that directed the wind just enough after the worst of it had died down a little. We managed to find most of our stuff that was scattered pretty widely. The wind went from zero to crazy in seconds.
I bet a 2 man timberline properly pitched would have handled the wind where our 4 man dome tent failed miserably. There is a reason it is still being made and sold after what must be half a century.
#18
Senior Member
Hope it works out well, given that you have tenting experience re choosing a proper setup location. I expect you have seamsealed before, totally worth doing with this tent to be all set.
happy and safe riding on the trip
happy and safe riding on the trip
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#20
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unless the tent has been sitting in the bag for those 6 yrs or you could get it for very cheap, i'd pass. Wolfskin is a good brand when it comes to outdoor stuff. Maybe it's just me, but no matter how good the tent has been I seem to destroy it within 1-2 yrs. poles break, fabric rubs out, looses water resistance, layers start to separate, etc.
#21
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Thread Starter
An update on this sorry tent saga. I had to wait a week due to work before connecting with the guy that had the tent. Operative word here, "had". He figured I was not interested and sold it to someone else. No big deal as there are others out there.
#22
Senior Member
Too bad. What are you thinking now? FWIW, I have not found there is always a close correlation between price and how well I have liked a tent. Some of my favorites over the years have been fairly inexpensive. Others not so much. Often pricier ones have been over built for my purposes. Good luck in finding something that suits you for a price you can manage.
BTW, I generally am happy enough with a one man tent when I use a tent. Some folks require more sprawling room. It depends on whether you spend much time in the tent doing more than sleeping or reading, I typically don't. It also depends on whether you bring in much gear, again I don't.
I have actually made the switch to a hoop-less bivy or a bug bivy depending on the weather and a light tarp. So I have been forgoing the tent on recent trips.
BTW, I generally am happy enough with a one man tent when I use a tent. Some folks require more sprawling room. It depends on whether you spend much time in the tent doing more than sleeping or reading, I typically don't. It also depends on whether you bring in much gear, again I don't.
I have actually made the switch to a hoop-less bivy or a bug bivy depending on the weather and a light tarp. So I have been forgoing the tent on recent trips.