lajt

My first step in this frame buildup was to have the headset installed. I came really close to taking a crack at it myself after watching YouTube vids using homemade tools, but figured I didn't want to ruin the beautiful chrome fork so I took it to a bike shop. The mechanic was extremely nice, but also very young and didn't seem that familiar with vintage frames (warning sign!). He got it installed, but there are just a few threads left for the top locknut. It does grab on, so I guess it's okay, it's just a little worrying. Should he have cut this off flush with that top locknut?
I never measured the fork height prior to him cutting it, but I'm guessing he took at least an inch or two off based on the "before" pic I took. Is that possible? It looks like the fork had been used on there, so I'm guessing it had been used on there with the previous uncut length. Does that mean the previous headset had a very tall stack height? What would've been the alternative to cutting it--I guess use a bunch of spacers with this headset, or find a taller stack headset?
This headset is a 1" FSA Duron I got from Rivendell, which has a 40.6mm stack height.
In the future, if the bearings go bad and I need a new headset and this one isn't available, would my best move be to find another headset with an equal or lesser stack height?

Russ Roth

I'm not always good with pictures but it looks like there might be enough threads engaged, usually the top cap is threaded almost all the way to the end. If that's a spacer in there you can remove it and stick in a thinner one. I suspect its probably fine but it should have been a touch longer.

Peter Polack

Ideally, the top of the steerer would be 1mm from the inside lip of the locknut. Looks like you still have enough purchase.
If the headset has a washer between the locknut and the top, threaded cup, you could try to find a thinner washer. It also looks like your locknut is taller than usual. You could try to find a thinner locknut.
Lastly, not all headsets have the same stack height. You could install a headset with a lower stack height, which is the sum of all the lower headset parts, and the upper headset parts.

lajt

Thanks for the feedback. It seems to hold and the threads aren't thrashed because I was able to unscrew it okay, so it's not ruined or anything. Could have turned out much worse all things considered!

AJI125 

I rode one like this for 1,000 miles or so without it coming loose or spontaneously combusting. Might tighten up a tad depending on preload when you reassemble. Maybe get in the habit of tightening the locknut after each ride - then you’ll notice if it’s loosening at all. I also rode a different headset that had worked loose, and it was noticeable and bouncing while braking. I stopped and hand tightened the upper threaded race and locknut, held together just fine until I got home. So if you notice anything on a ride all is not lost.
And lastly, there are a bunch of headsets out there that are shorter so no issue if you decide to find a replacement.

P!N20

Looks similar to a frame I bought a year or two back that had about the same gap between the top of the steerer and the lock nut tab. I replaced it with a lower stack headset, but the previous owner rode it for years without any problems. YMMV.

Here's a chart of low stack height headsets - I'm sure it's not exhaustive: https://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/stack-height-1.jpg

dedhed

I'd be pissed if someone cut my fork down without first asking me. How do they know what your intentions are?

lajt

That's a good question. I kind of wondered the same thing too, why they didn't call and tell me the situation and ask if I was okay with it being cut. I'm so inexperienced with all this that I didn't even realize it would've extended beyond the headset. I wish I'd held all the pieces up next to it before taking it there--then I would've realized the difference and done some research to educate myself.

SurferRosa

I will assume that's not a spacer, but the lower part of the lock nut, which is unthreaded. Two ideas: remove that lower part of the lock nut (via machining/filing) or use a different lock nut that has more threads at its bottom. That might give you just enough threads to use this headset and avoid any issues with the steerer.

There may be enough threads without doing any of that. Maybe post a pic without the lock nut.

tiger1964 

Really interested in seeing the info, but my computer gave a warning on clicking the link ('not secure", etc.)... anyone else have positive/negative on that link?

Spaghetti Legs 

I got the message on the link too. That’s piss poor LBS work right there (did they put the scratches on the headset too?) but that being said, should be OK. I just built up a frame with a parts bin fork that ended up similar to that and so far so good.

Shimano 600 has always been my go to for a lower stack height on my older Campy equipped bikes. I forget the exact measurement, but somewhere in the 30’s I believe. Stronglight A9, a very good headset (the 600 is good too) I believe also has a lower stack height.

JohnDThompson 

That's my site. It uses a self-signed SSL certificate, which some browsers are fussy about. You're not giving me any credit card or personal identification by downloading that scan image, so there's little to actually worry about. You can also use a non-encrypted connection by substituting "http" for "https" in the URL. Or, you can download the scan image from my album here on bikeforums:

https://www.bikeforums.net/g/album/20856994

lajt

@SurferRosa, it's hard to tell in the pic, but there are some threads available on the top of the fork, so the locknut is able to grab thankfully. It's about half what it should be, but it's enough to screw on. Hopefully it doesn't come loose as AJI125 noted. I guess if it does I can use some threadlocker.
JohnDThompson , that list of headsets and their heights is extremely useful! Thanks for posting that. I got the certificate warning too, but using http instead of https like you said eliminated it (pretty cool, just learned something).

tiger1964 

Thanks. My Mac REALLY does not like that link; I went through repeated "do you really want to do this" messages, then the system told me I'd have to change my settings. I gave up. The downloaded image is great however. I presume that once a model of headset is selected, it does not matter in terms of stack height if the bike and headset were, for instance, French?

JohnDThompson 

As far as stack height, there should be no difference in stack between French and English thread versions of the same make/model headset. Pressed cup dimensions should also be the same, but some French crown races use a race seat other than 26.4mm

velomateo

I had a similar issue on one of my bikes. I used a Tange Levin alloy headset, not to expensive and has a very Campy-esque look to it. Stack height is 37.5 mm.

noglider 

I would change headset or cut down the head tube a bit. I don't like how few threads you have. Cutting down the head tube requires facing it with a professional tool.

pcb 

Because this is no longer The Before Times, I'm not sure how to approach this. So please take this all with a grain of salt.

1. Not really acceptable that they cut the steer tube too short, or scratched up the headset parts (if they did the scratching, not you...). Normally I'd think they should be told this because:
a. They should make it right
b. Their mechanic should learn how to do this procedure correctly

2. Hard to tell from your photo, but it looks like maybe there's no spacer/washer between the cup and the locknut? If so, that's maybe a sign they knew they cut it way too short, and with the spacer correctly installed there'd barely be any threads? For proper adjustment, the keyed spacer should be there.

3. Easiest fix, esp if there's no keyed spacer, is to install a lower-stack headset. The usual go-to low-stack threaded headset is the Tange Passage, which isn't sealed or as light/cool as the Duron. The Duron is 40.6mm, which is fairly tall; the Passage is 30.2mm. So headset downgrade, but like I said, easiest fix, and you get a whopping 10mm back. There may be some nicer headsets in-between, how much more thread you need depends on whether that keyed washer is there or not.

4. Better fix, if there's enough room on the top headset lug, and if you don't mind having the frame slightly modified, is to take some metal off the top of the lug. Maybe a combination of a few mm of the lug with a nice-as-Duron but lower stack headset would do the trick.

You certainly can ride it as is, and just keep an eye on it and make sure it stays tight. The nicer/smoother the roads you ride on, the less likely it will rattle loose.

lajt

pcb , you're right, no washer in between, and I remember now there were two in the bag I provided them. He said, "Not sure what these are for, but I can figure it out once I get into it."
I think your assessment is spot on that they knew they goofed. When I picked it up and asked how it went, he said, "Well, we had a hard time with it. These old frames are extremely hard metal and difficult to cut." These guys were very young so maybe this is the first time they've even touched or seen an 80s frame.
Interesting idea about taking some metal off the top headset lug, but given my luck thus far and lack of knowing any good mechanics in LA (I'm sure we have them, I just don't have any good leads), I'm pretty reluctant to take it to a shop again.
Thanks for the tip on the Tange Passage. I will probably try riding it once the bike is built up and see how it goes, and it it keeps coming loose, maybe swap for the lower-stack headset. If I did that and found it needed a spacer just to raise it a hair, where do you find keyed spacers? The only one I found was at Rene Herse:
https://www.renehersecycles.com/shop...adset-spacers/

Doug Fattic 

If there are any bicycle frame builders in your area, they will have the tools and knowledge to know how to cut and install headsets properly. The fact that he didn't know what the spacers were for was a good indication he knew nothing about how to install the threaded headset you gave him. The fact that he scratched the adjustable nut showed he didn't know what tool to use. When you spin the fork in the frame, it should move freely but not have any play. Can you check that and get back to us and let us know that it does rotate smoothly without any tightness but at the same time when you hold the fork and try to move it back and forth, is there any movement or play? I will be surprised an inexperienced mechanic knows how to get that right. Again you might take it to a framebuilder to get his impression if the headset was installed correctly. He could at least make sure the top 2 nuts were correctly adjusted. I'm suspicious they were not.

Johno59

Remember it is a lock nut i.e. it does not carry any load. After few miles the bearings may need re-tightening and you'll hopefully get more purchase for the lock. nut. If it strips there is no danger but keep an eye on the bearing race rotating making the forks rock back and forth as everything comes loose.

sovende

That chrome fork looks really nice and I’d certainly want to use it! If the frame is special enough (size-wise, sentimental, pristine, etc.), I’d be giving serious thought to shortening the head tube a few millimeters . Removing metal from the bottom of the head tube does ever so slightly make the top tube pitch down but most would never notice it. Removing metal from the top of the head tube only might create some asymmetry but again would only be noticed by total nit pickers . IMHO, a job for a professional with the proper tools. I’d definitely be speaking with the management of the LBS where the steerer tube was cut and be asking them to make things right i.e. shortening and facing the head tube.

Johno59

If t does keep coming loose (it shouldn't) get a 1 1/8 adapter post for a one inch steerer. and then you can stack it as high as you want and the bars you put on it are limitless.

noglider 

I don't follow. Doesn't the adapter fit inside the steerer tube? If so, it doesn't do anything as a locknut.

lajt

Doug Fattic Hi Doug, thanks for weighing in. Pretty neat to get the perspective of an actual frame builder! Gosh, I wouldn't have any idea how find a frame builder in Los Angeles or actually get a few minutes with them. It does feel pretty free of any play/wobble, and seems to pivot okay. It's not ready for riding yet so I haven't taken it out, of course. I guess that will be the key test, to see if the locknut stays tight without vibrating loose after a few miles.