Cycle Tourist

I tried to resist. I really did but when the seller agreed to $100 for this completely original (tires don't count) ST-500 I was unable to hold out. This was my hands down, most desired bike when I decided to give up racing and start touring. I naturally couldn't afford it and rebuilt a early Univega sport touring bike to cart my butt and belongings up the Pacific Coast. S





now can I get used to half step plus gearing and dt shifters or do I go with barends and more modern gearing. What do you think?

Hobbiano 

That's pretty nice. Sugino AT, Wolber 58's.

shelbyfv

Great find, even has the nice metal cable guides. I'd do modern drive train, 700c conversion with some Tektro long reach brakes.

steelbikeguy

are the rear dropouts 126mm apart? That would seem to limit what rear hub could be used, and therefore the gearing available.
As such, half-step-plus-granny might still be a good choice.

I use a Sugino AT with 26-46-49 chainrings and a 13-30 seven speed cassette, and that gives a great range of gears! The shift from the 26 to the 46 does require some attention, though. My bike has SunTour Cyclone derailleurs, so I certainly endorse what is one your C'dale!



Steve in Peoria

shelbyfv

130mm wheels fit easily, no problems.

Roger M

Apologies for derailing the thread, but:

As I have zero experience with a half step/granny setup, what is the benefit of this? I have a Sugino AT on my Expedition, and it's being run as a compact double. I have the rings(& bottom bracket)to make a standard triple, or a half step/granny.

Hobbiano 

I believe a shift between the two big rings on the front results in a change of gear ratios about half as much as a shift of one cog in the rear. So you get the in between gears ratios with a shift in front and more useful gears. It does result in a lot of double shifting if you want to go sequentially though the gears though. I think it is most useful if you have a five or six speed freewheel to allow for a wide range freewheel without huge differences between the gears than, say, an eight or more speed freehub, which has enough gears that they can be close enough to each other without needing to double shift up front to get the next gear.

francophile 

This is one of those bikes I've coveted for 20+ years now, but it's extremely rare to find one of the ST frames in my size (60). I'll never understand why that is....

But more than that, those Wolber/SC Modele 58 - as I've said a number of times on BF - are some of my all-time favorite rims to build up for touring and trail riding. Super flexible options, strong, smooth, and hold true.

That one needs a focused bath and it'll look good as new!

steelbikeguy

the late, great, Sheldon Brown has an explanation of gearing in general, and he does go over half-step-plus-granny a bit.... https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-theory.html

The main advantage is that it can provide the smallest changes in gear size when using a cassette/freewheel with a modest number of cogs. For a 7 speed cassette, it works great on my bike. If I was using 8 speeds or more, it would end up with the two big chainrings being only 2 teeth apart, which is just about pointless. In fact, I sometimes set up this bike with a 13-26 eight speed cassette and 26-39-49 chainrings. The gear steps are slightly bigger and the low gear isn't as low, but it doesn't really require much thought. Also, the shift from the 26 to the 39 chainring is trivial, which matters if the terrain requires me to make this shift frequently.

For a bike restricted to using a 126mm OLD hub, half-step-plus-granny is a useful concept. If the bike can handle a 9 speed cassette, then more conventional gearing schemes are probably best.
Oh... almost forgot... the bikes under discussion have all used friction shifting for the chainrings. If the front shifting is indexed, then you probably have to use whatever Shimano/SRAM/etc recommends, which isn't going to be half-step-plus-granny!

Steve in Peoria

Roger M

Thanks both of you for the education. I may have to give that half step a shot...

bikemig 

I have a 1985 Cannondale ST 400 that I picked up a few years back that was all original also with half step gearing. It's a great bike. I'm running it with 700c wheels and 3 x 7 indexed gearing. Concur with the others about superchampion 58 rims. They build up true and last.

OutnBack

Congrats. That Cannondale will be a sweet ride. Here is an 86 ST 400 I picked it up 2 weeks ago.

Prowler 

I have half step plus granny on my 87 Voyegeur and had it on my Fuji TS III. I suspect the half step if good for loaded touring - used the Schwinn for my "forced march" on the GAP a couple of years ago. 70lbs rig for 300 miles in 4 days. The half step work fine though I did not really take advantage of the half step features.

I've not heavy toured on the Fuji and will only light tour at most. I've swapped out the 42 middle for a 40 and really like my triple now for just riding around and long day trips. 50/40/26 So I'm not sold on half step but it don't make me mad. The Voyegeur is also a Biopace half step. I'm not discerning enough to appreciate that either.

BTW: OP, I may have an Avocet Touring II in much better shape than yours. Let me know via PM if your looking.

mkeller234

Nice bike! You did a good job capturing the color, which I have always found to be difficult. Small detail, but I like the Cannondale spoke protector. I’d personally leave the gear as is, that is a nicely equipped bike!

I have an early ST in the same color. This decal set is great too, very minimalist.

bikemig 

To my mind, half step can make sense if running 5 or 6 on the back. If properly designed, you will have more usable gears to work with. If running 7 though I don't mind overlap and I appreciate the ease of cross over gearing. I went with cross over gearing when I rebuilt my '85 Cannondale ST 400. I'm running 48/36/24 rings up front and a 13-28 7 speed freewheel in the rear.

rccardr 

An excellent bike as is, as well as an awesome foundation for virtually unlimited modification/modernization according to your preference.
I’ve owned and built up maybe 15 ST’s over the years, and my yellow powdercoated 88 with compact crank, 700 conversion and 10 speed indexed downtube shifters with Tektro braking system still gets more miles (and smiles) per year than any other bike in my collection.

Cycle Tourist

That's a perfect explanation. The ST went back to a five speed freewheel in '85. The wider spacing allowed more room for error but bigger jumps in gearing. Most times bigger jumps are fine as a loaded bike changes speed quickly as the terrain changes but if the road is pretty consistent finding the perfect gear by double shifting is very helpful. I'm partial to a seven speed but trying to stuff a seven speed in the spacing means offsetting the rear wheel quite a bit. At least initially, rebuilding as is with new tape, saddle, grease and removing all reflectors to see how it fits and feels is my inclination.

Cycle Tourist

How did you set up the seven speed freewheel? Did you just push a 130mm axle in with a bigger offset? I like the super champion wheels and having no offset is a very attractive inducement to staying with the current setup.

bikemig 

No 7 will fit into 126 OLD. There are plenty of folks here who have spread these frames to deal with a 130 OLD but I'd rather not. Seven will fit fine. You may have to run a 1 mm spacer if your chain rubs.

Cycle Tourist

Your right the 126mm spacing will accommodate a 6 or 7 speed freewheel. Cannondale went back to 5 speeds and pushed the chain to the far extreme. They were then able to build a rear wheel with no offset. While nice from a strength standpoint, it makes changing it a bit problematic. I'd have to swap a significant number of washers to give me room for the seven I also prefer. I believe the rims would be "gentlemanly" enough to allow the wheel rebuild to the necessary offset. Since I've got a nice pair of Matrix rims laying around is this the time to go all out and make the change to 700c wheels? I think I'll install a set of barcons with the existing gearing and see how it feels. The Huret rd looks salvageable so I'll probably stay with it too. The saddle will be a Brooks Pro or a b17. The frame is free of any dents or defects and corrosion hasn't set in anywhere. I'm waiting for a 8 prong bb removal tool but there's plenty to do. The wheels are cleaning up nicely and the rest is boxed and bagged. The red paint doesn't look very hard to match and this is getting to be a kick a$$ project.🤓

blamester

That's a good project. All there and cheap.
Plenty of ways to change it. Good luck

Cycle Tourist

The paint match came out good. I tried a set of Matrix Titan rims I had on an old 610 and they fit perfectly. It has a 13/34 7 speed freewheel already mounted and I know I've got Shimano 8 speed barends that should work. . I might as well go with 48/40/24 chain wheels in that case. Maybe 24 is a mite too low. Any thoughts?? The dawg gone stem had a reach that was just too short and this combo works but it just doesn't look right. Maybe I should check ebay for a more traditional look.

ZudeJammer

Agree about the stem. What's wrong with the Sachs shifters? I'd keep the vintage drivetrain because you have every gear you need with the granny plus the sachs mech has a lot of coolness factor. I had a white 87 ST400 but it was too big.

Cycle Tourist

My original thought was staying original but the lure of a seven speed clicker is strong and I dislike dt shifters on a touring bike so that was changing anyway. By the end of the day double shifting to find the right gear is just too much effort. I've gotten lazy over the years. I also prefer a lower gearing than the 28 granny 30t freewheel gave me so I needed to make some other changes anyway.
I checked out some stems and don't see any that give me the height and reach I need that look "right". Since functionality is more important on a touring bike I'm willing to give the conversion stem a try. The look is starting to grow on me. Not so sure on the saddle either. I'll have to ride it for awhile but a b17 is my go to and the old 610 might have to make another donation.

shelbyfv

Yeah, that stem is pretty bad. The bike in post #3 has a Nitto Technomic, IIRC. It will allow you to set the bars higher than normal if you need to w/o looking quite so strange. Hang a bag from the bars and the extra height almost disappears.