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Disc brake feel

Old 07-27-19, 11:00 PM
  #26  
GamblerGORD53
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Koolstops didn't do squat with my caliper brakes. All they do is glaze over and grip nothing. That is on a clean dry rim. With mud??? Pffft
My Spyres on a Rohloff 203 disc will skid the tire in half a sec if I pull them hard enough.

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Old 07-28-19, 08:24 AM
  #27  
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There are many reasons I, as a recreational cyclist who avoids riding in the rain has 0 intest in disc brakes, especially hydraulic ones. But the feel of the Brake leavers is not one of them.

And I'm confident a decent bike with disc brakes from a reputable manufacturer like Giant or Trek will do a fine job. I just don't want to deal with hydraulic fluid and the Leaks, Bleeding the lines, Siezed pistons, Aligning the calipers to keep them from squeeking, etc.

Bottom line is the Tektro linear pull rim brakes with the stock pads on my 2018 Giant Sedona work so well with the machined alluminum rims, even when wet with a bit more pressure, Disc brakes wouldn't be worth the effort.

The only reason I would go disc is if I had no choice because the bike I wanted had them, And even then, I would not go with hydraulic ones.

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Old 07-28-19, 08:47 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by xroadcharlie
There are many reasons I, as a recreational cyclist who avoids riding in the rain has 0 intest in disc brakes, especially hydraulic ones. But the feel of the Brake leavers is not one of them.

And I'm confident a decent bike with disc brakes from a reputable manufacturer like Giant or Trek will do a fine job. I just don't want to deal with hydraulic fluid and the Leaks, Bleeding the lines, Siezed pistons, Aligning the calipers to keep them from squeeking, etc.

Bottom line is the Tektro linear pull rim brakes with the stock pads on my 2018 Giant Sedona work so well with the machined alluminum rims, even when wet with a bit more pressure, Disc brakes wouldn't be worth the effort.

The only reason I would go disc is if I had no choice because the bike I wanted had them, And even then, I would not go with hydraulic ones.
I have a MTB and cross bike with hydraulic discs. I’ve never had a leak and never bled any lines although I have the tools to do it if necessary. One advantage of hydros is there is no adjustment required as pads wear. Because of this feature hydro brakes can easily be designed with more mechanical leverage between the lever and caliper providing more stopping power for a given lever force.

That said, I wouldn’t bother with discs if you don’t ride in the rain.
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Old 07-28-19, 03:46 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by xroadcharlie
There are many reasons I, as a recreational cyclist who avoids riding in the rain has 0 intest in disc brakes, especially hydraulic ones. But the feel of the Brake leavers is not one of them.

And I'm confident a decent bike with disc brakes from a reputable manufacturer like Giant or Trek will do a fine job. I just don't want to deal with hydraulic fluid and the Leaks, Bleeding the lines, Siezed pistons, Aligning the calipers to keep them from squeeking, etc.

Bottom line is the Tektro linear pull rim brakes with the stock pads on my 2018 Giant Sedona work so well with the machined alluminum rims, even when wet with a bit more pressure, Disc brakes wouldn't be worth the effort.

The only reason I would go disc is if I had no choice because the bike I wanted had them, And even then, I would not go with hydraulic ones.
I ditto the above comments. I picked up my first bike with disc brakes (cable). Norco Indie 3. I went with the lower grade components because I did not want to mess with brake fluid, maintenance, etc. My opinion may change with more experience but so for the Tektro cable disc brakes are working fine......
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Old 07-28-19, 08:37 PM
  #30  
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The hydraulic aspect is in another league from cable, so smooth until the pad bites. I didn't have a clue but mastered it with the first bleed, the kit makes it easy and somewhat interesting to do. Working with frayed cables is no fun.

The only thing really to note with hydro is you may need to pump the levers after you've had the bike upside down. The last couple of times this has been the case with the rear lever, so it seems i have some air in the reservoir. But it only takes a few seconds.



Originally Posted by jade408
I can definitely see where the discs would be necessary for this bike. I think there are plenty of other bikes where the increased power wouldn’t be utilized.
I think you touch on something here which goes some way to explaining the use of cable side-pull brakes on $10,000 carbon road bikes, and most bikes in the same genre; In fast road competitions, there's little braking. Weight and aerodynamics are more important than the ability to stop quickly when you're doing 65mph down a sweeping Alpine road in the Tour De France - cue riders all piling into each other when one goes down...

Perhaps some specification tinkering is required when buying a bike for your commute through suburbia, past schools and amongst SUVs, but i guess that's down to the rider.
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Old 08-04-19, 09:49 AM
  #31  
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Couple things:
1-disc brakes are better in the wet than rim brakes. You can't argue otherwise.
2-disc brakes modulate better than MOST rim brakes. The only exception is when your brakes are weak (think stiff single pivot brakes).
3-quality disc brakes (both hydro and mech) can be set up to bite very early in the lever travel just like rim brakes. Just keep the system maintained.
4-ride whatever brake system you like the most. If you enjoy steel rims on wet, steep mountain roads, have at it. The most we can do is recommend elsewise.
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Old 08-04-19, 10:19 AM
  #32  
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I would never go back to rim brakes.;
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Old 08-04-19, 10:50 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Elvo
Typically rim brakes have an "on/off" feeling while disk brakes have varying levels of pressure feedback due to their ability to modulate better.
Your definition of “on/off” and “modulation” are very different from mine. I find hydraulic brakes to be an on and off affair. Being able to apply “just a little brake” using hydraulics is next to impossible in my experience. I’ve never experienced an inability to add just a little friction using rim brakes (or mechanical discs for that matter). Hydraulics I’ve used are always grabby and I have use much more care when applying them.
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Old 08-04-19, 10:59 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by hybridbkrdr
I only tried disc brakes in stores by pushing the bikes forward (road & mtn) while pressing on the brake levers. I find the first second seems a little "spongy" and "remote" before the brakes actually starts gripping the disc. While I find when I pull on the brake levers on a rim brake bike, I really like the immediate "clamping" feel.

Has anyone here ever regretted going disc and decided to go back to rim brakes? (And were they mechanical or hydraulic?)
That could be set up. Traditionally, bike shops have set up brakes so that they don’t engage instantly. They want them to engage at about half lever travel and to bottom out just before the lever reaches the handlebar. You can get away with this using rim brakes but if you set up a disc for that kind of travel, the brakes are really spongy and mushy. This is usually done so that they don’t have liability problems.

If the disc are set up properly...with minimal lever travel...disc brakes feel much better. Cheap disc brakes are more difficult to set up properly, have less ability to adjust properly and, generally, perform worse. Higher quality brakes have more adjustments and function better.

Frankly, I’ve never liked the half lever travel on rim brakes and set mine some that they engage with minimal travel. I set up my discs the same way and can’t really tell a difference between the different brake systems. Hydraulics, on the other hand, are very different in my opinion.
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Old 08-04-19, 11:27 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Your definition of “on/off” and “modulation” are very different from mine. I find hydraulic brakes to be an on and off affair. Being able to apply “just a little brake” using hydraulics is next to impossible in my experience. I’ve never experienced an inability to add just a little friction using rim brakes (or mechanical discs for that matter). Hydraulics I’ve used are always grabby and I have use much more care when applying them.
It's hard to judge the ability of a disc brake system just by pulling the level while completely stopped. I have several bikes with hydraulic disc brakes and since I weigh over 200lbs I am sensitive to the braking ability needed to slow my fat ass down. They all work pretty well but have different abilities to modulate the brake effort. I certainly won't be going back to rim brakes unless I build up a retro MTB frame I have.

I have some cheap Tektro 285s on a hybrid, they definitely have more of an on/off feel to them. The Sram Force with Hope RX4 4 piston calipers have a fair amount of modulation but have a firm feel to the levers and as such require more effort to stop quickly. My Ultegra/Dura Ace brakes are pretty darn good at modulating the brake force and have a very linear feel to them while stopping. And finally I have a set of Shimano Zee 4 piston brakes on my MTB. These are by far the best brakes I have used. The power and modulation of these brakes are phenomenal even using just 1 finger. YMMV.

If you are coming from a well sorted rim brake set up you may need to look around and try some different brands to see what you like. I much prefer the Shimano brakes with resin pads over any of the other brakes I use. Higher end brakes will have some ability to adjust the bite point of the brakes as well.

Last edited by Bryan C.; 08-04-19 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 08-04-19, 06:58 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Bryan C.
It's hard to judge the ability of a disc brake system just by pulling the level while completely stopped. I have several bikes with hydraulic disc brakes and since I weigh over 200lbs I am sensitive to the braking ability needed to slow my fat ass down. They all work pretty well but have different abilities to modulate the brake effort. I certainly won't be going back to rim brakes unless I build up a retro MTB frame I have.
It may be hard to judge the ability brakes when not riding but it isn’t impossible. It helps to have lots and lots and lots of experience with brake systems. After 40+ years of riding and being a mechanic, I happen to have that experience. I can tell from the brake lever feel if the brake is going to be good or bad.

I also happen to have several bikes with both rim, disc and, in one instance, disc front/rim rear. Frankly all of them perform well and will stop me in every situation I’ve encountered from downhills with a loaded touring bike in a downpour to steep off-road riding with the added weight for bikepacking.

I have some cheap Tektro 285s on a hybrid, they definitely have more of an on/off feel to them. The Sram Force with Hope RX4 4 piston calipers have a fair amount of modulation but have a firm feel to the levers and as such require more effort to stop quickly. My Ultegra/Dura Ace brakes are pretty darn good at modulating the brake force and have a very linear feel to them while stopping. And finally I have a set of Shimano Zee 4 piston brakes on my MTB. These are by far the best brakes I have used. The power and modulation of these brakes are phenomenal even using just 1 finger. YMMV.
Cheap brakes don’t have an “on/off” feel in my experience. Cheap brakes have more of a “is this damned thing going to stop!” feel. Good mechanical disc and good rim brakes work well in my experience and have good modulation. I’ve not had the same experience with hydraulic.

If you are coming from a well sorted rim brake set up you may need to look around and try some different brands to see what you like. I much prefer the Shimano brakes with resin pads over any of the other brakes I use. Higher end brakes will have some ability to adjust the bite point of the brakes as well.
I have good brakes of all the kinds I use. I’ve had what were considered to be good hydraulics and never found them to be all that good. Certainly not worth the hassles that come along with them.
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Old 08-05-19, 04:28 PM
  #37  
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I like them.

I have discs. Over the weekend I was riding in large groups, and was in those large groups descending at high (nearly 40MPH) speeds. I had to carefully modulate my brakes to ensure that I did not make any sudden moves, including while cornering. The disc brakes were smooth, powerful, easy to modulate, did not overheat, and made those descents easy.

I won't buy another bike without them.

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Old 09-09-19, 06:09 PM
  #38  
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I think this also might be something that cyclists that are also motorcyclists have a different opinion on. I just got 105 hydraulics on my gravel bike when I switched from Tektro & a flat bar to drop bar and Shimano. The Tektro's were okay. Good lever travel and I could modulate the brakes really well with them not going back more than say 2/3 of the way to the bar. The Shimanos as setup "by the book" are complete crap. They don't even give any lever feel until the are all the way to the bar. I don't know that I could even lock them up if I tried.

I'm used to hydraulic brakes feeling a certain way, but that's because I road motorcycles and road raced them for about 30 years. It's north of 15x weight wise of my bicycle, but with bigger calipers, discs, pistons, pad area, etc. That is the feel I want from my discs on my bicycle, obviously within reason based on the platform.
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Old 09-09-19, 09:08 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope
I live life at two opposite ends of the spectrum: one bike has 4-piston hydraulic calipers with IceTech rotors, while the other has traditional rim brakes... on carbon wheels. They both stop the bike. The discs just do it a lot more comfortably and effectively.
My sentiments, exactly.
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Old 09-10-19, 05:55 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
It may be hard to judge the ability brakes when not riding but it isn’t impossible. It helps to have lots and lots and lots of experience with brake systems. After 40+ years of riding and being a mechanic, I happen to have that experience. I can tell from the brake lever feel if the brake is going to be good or bad.

I also happen to have several bikes with both rim, disc and, in one instance, disc front/rim rear. Frankly all of them perform well and will stop me in every situation I’ve encountered from downhills with a loaded touring bike in a downpour to steep off-road riding with the added weight for bikepacking.



Cheap brakes don’t have an “on/off” feel in my experience. Cheap brakes have more of a “is this damned thing going to stop!” feel. Good mechanical disc and good rim brakes work well in my experience and have good modulation. I’ve not had the same experience with hydraulic.



I have good brakes of all the kinds I use. I’ve had what were considered to be good hydraulics and never found them to be all that good. Certainly not worth the hassles that come along with them.
For a long time I had reservations about hydraulic disc brakes since my experiences were pretty mixed. My first hydro brake was a Magura Julie, which was ok. Not great and not really an improvement to the Hayes mechanicals I had. The second one was Magura gustaf, which was pretty incredible in terms of everything. However both brakes had leaks (I bought the bike used) so there was some hassle and loss of braking power. With my mechanical aptitude at the time I moved on to an XC bike which had Avid Elixir 1's. Still good but nothing to write home about. I swapped them for Shimano Deore brakes with the servo wave tech and those were pretty darn good for a while. However they could not cope with the cold of Finnish Lapland and thus were pretty much obliterated and started leaking.

So I went with mechanical disc brakes for a long time. Avid BB7's with compressionless housings in both my touring bike and mountain bikes. Simple and with oodles of power when using the correct rotor size (my tourer has had a 203mm rotor up front and that was pretty nifty).

And now, just recently I got my first fat bike, the Surly ICT. It was a custom build and the shop put in Sram Guide RE's. The difference to anything I've ever used was to put it mildly, absolutely and completely mind blowing. The funny thing with fat bike tires is that you won't exceed the grip they have in almost any summer condition. This in turn means that if you have the power, you can literally stop on a dime. Well the Guide RE's had the power and more. Haven't gone over the bars yet but if I was stupid enough to use two finger braking that'd be a real danger.
Yet I have perfect control. The calipers have four pistons, which alters the brake feel a bit towards the Shimano Servo Wave -feel. They don't bite immediately, yet it's easy to ramp up the braking with very little effort while still maintaining perfect control, and all this with just one finger. Yet these have a lot more power than the Shimano Deore's ever had. These are verifiably in the magura gustaf region of braking power.
I mentioned that there are almost no conditions where the fat tires lose grip, but one place even they trule struggle is a light dusting of gravel over asphalt. But even there I can maintain ABS-esque control with both tires with very little effort as the fine control I get. It really is truly amazing.

It's hard to describe this in such a way that it's understadable so I'll try to go with an analogy. If one has ever tried driving certain US-made sports cars like say, an 80's Chevy Camaro, one knows what bad braking is. Like sure, you can lock up, but it requires your whole leg and then some to do so and you'll really feel the seat springs at your back whilst doing it. Then compare it to a car that has some seriously good braking with ease of use and safety in mind like say, a recent model of a Volvo XC90. The Volvo needs some care with braking as you can stop very quickly with just your big toe, yet it's easy enough to control. That's the difference I get, when I compare the Guide RE's to any type of rim brake and even some discs I've used.

My point is, there are certainly differences in brakes in every category. There are bad disc brakes in both mechanical and hydraulic sides and the bad hydraulic brakes lose to good mechanicals. However IMO all disc brakes beat all rim brakes in terms of, if not everything then at least accuracy and safety. Certain rim brakes have more power but are quite grabby, (V-brakes with really long arms come to mind). And at the end of the day really good hydraulic brakes wipe the floor with any rim brake. Ironically the Guide RE isn't that good a brake. It's middle priced. There are much better offerings available.
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