Braze-on vs bolt-on pannier rack mounts dilemma.
07-27-23, 04:35 AM
#51
Junior Member
Thread Starter
You say you have a bike co-op nearby? Go pick up rear rack for $10 or under, I'm sure no hourly bench charges if you take it with you. Ask for P clamps which they should have or stop by the hardware store to find some. Then go home and install your rack, take as long as you like without time constraints.
You can use either a piece of bicycle tire tube or leather as a gasket between the bike and the c clamp, it will keep everything tighter and from rattling. For cheap leather swing by the nearest thrift store and find a raged leather bag for cheap, cut the leather out.
If you plan on doing long unsupported tours you really need to become a bike mechanic or resign yourself to pay a ton of money when (not if, when) something fails.
You can use either a piece of bicycle tire tube or leather as a gasket between the bike and the c clamp, it will keep everything tighter and from rattling. For cheap leather swing by the nearest thrift store and find a raged leather bag for cheap, cut the leather out.
If you plan on doing long unsupported tours you really need to become a bike mechanic or resign yourself to pay a ton of money when (not if, when) something fails.
Do you think this rack is better than the 2 strut Blackburn? I'll check the coop too but I think I will not be able to get one as strong as this particular Blackburn rack. I don't know why it has such a long URL.
Top of the Day!
Winfred
https://www.ebay.com/itm/28515665128...Bk9SR6Cpue6yYg
07-27-23, 05:01 AM
#52
Senior Member
That is the same Blackburn rack I use and have been using since 1986. If you keep the weight low it will serve well, however if you are packing 50-60 pounds on it, don't expect a long service life from it as it is a lightweight rack. I usually do not exceed 40 pounds and most often the heaviest load I carry on it is 20-25 pounds.
07-27-23, 05:02 AM
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
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M6 is shorthand for a 6mm bolt, almost all bikes use M5 or 5mm bolts on racks.
If you are going to have 75 pounds on a rack, you might want to use high strength bolts, which can rust but are less likely to fail by shearing. And if you sheared off a bolt, it may be difficult to extract. And if you are going to have that kind of weight on a rack, you really do not want some clips strapped around the seatstays holding your rack, your rack needs to be firmly mounted on the bike frame at the lower rack bolts.
Some people will insert the rack bolts from the wheel side of the dropouts using panhead type allen wrench type bolts. The rack is then mounted on the bolt with a Nylock nut from the outside. That way if you shear off a bolt, the bolt can be extracted from the dropout with an allen wrench to replace it, but it might take some filing first. On a derailleur bike, to do that on the drive side your rack mounting point has to be high enough above the axle that the chain will not snag on the bolt when shifting to or from the smallest sprocket. Thus, that does not work on some bikes.
I ran the bolts from the wheel side of the dropout on my light touring bike, but I did it that way because I mounted my fender stays on the wheel side of the dropouts, not from the outside. And then the rack is mounted on the outside of the dropouts with Nylock nuts. But I do not exceed about 50 pounds on the rack on that bike, so I did not do that for fear of shearing off a bolt.
A lot of bikes with 75 pounds on back would feel like a wet noodle when you ride it. I am quite sure that my bike did not have that much weight on the rear rack in the photo below, but it might have been close, I had over two and a half weeks of food on the bike at the time of the photo. This bike uses M6 bolts for racks, not M5 for the extra strength. Rear rack was the Tubus Logo EVO that I mentioned before. This is my heavy touring bike, it was built for that kind of load and it handled it very well.
07-27-23, 05:32 AM
#54
Junior Member
Thread Starter
That is the same Blackburn rack I use and have been using since 1986. If you keep the weight low it will serve well, however if you are packing 50-60 pounds on it, don't expect a long service life from it as it is a lightweight rack. I usually do not exceed 40 pounds and most often the heaviest load I carry on it is 20-25 pounds.
Thanks very much for your first hand experience with the Blackburn rear rack. I thought the 3 strut version was quite strong, but I guess not. I guess there are no in-betweens. I would like to go on short trips first, like 40 miles round trip, then one at sixty or seventy, then the 1,500 to 2,000 mile trip. I'm going to visit relatives so it won't be where I'll be going every day. Maybe this means the Tubus racks from the start. Also do you mean the same for the Blackburn front rack that is for sale on ebay? https://www.ebay.com/itm/285366324902#shpCntId
Top of the Day!
Winfred
07-27-23, 05:48 AM
#55
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I am clueless on weight capacity for Blackburn racks.
M6 is shorthand for a 6mm bolt, almost all bikes use M5 or 5mm bolts on racks.
If you are going to have 75 pounds on a rack, you might want to use high strength bolts, which can rust but are less likely to fail by shearing. And if you sheared off a bolt, it may be difficult to extract. And if you are going to have that kind of weight on a rack, you really do not want some clips strapped around the seatstays holding your rack, your rack needs to be firmly mounted on the bike frame at the lower rack bolts.
Some people will insert the rack bolts from the wheel side of the dropouts using panhead type allen wrench type bolts. The rack is then mounted on the bolt with a Nylock nut from the outside. That way if you shear off a bolt, the bolt can be extracted from the dropout with an allen wrench to replace it, but it might take some filing first. On a derailleur bike, to do that on the drive side your rack mounting point has to be high enough above the axle that the chain will not snag on the bolt when shifting to or from the smallest sprocket. Thus, that does not work on some bikes.
I ran the bolts from the wheel side of the dropout on my light touring bike, but I did it that way because I mounted my fender stays on the wheel side of the dropouts, not from the outside. And then the rack is mounted on the outside of the dropouts with Nylock nuts. But I do not exceed about 50 pounds on the rack on that bike, so I did not do that for fear of shearing off a bolt.
A lot of bikes with 75 pounds on back would feel like a wet noodle when you ride it. I am quite sure that my bike did not have that much weight on the rear rack in the photo below, but it might have been close, I had over two and a half weeks of food on the bike at the time of the photo. This bike uses M6 bolts for racks, not M5 for the extra strength. Rear rack was the Tubus Logo EVO that I mentioned before. This is my heavy touring bike, it was built for that kind of load and it handled it very well.
M6 is shorthand for a 6mm bolt, almost all bikes use M5 or 5mm bolts on racks.
If you are going to have 75 pounds on a rack, you might want to use high strength bolts, which can rust but are less likely to fail by shearing. And if you sheared off a bolt, it may be difficult to extract. And if you are going to have that kind of weight on a rack, you really do not want some clips strapped around the seatstays holding your rack, your rack needs to be firmly mounted on the bike frame at the lower rack bolts.
Some people will insert the rack bolts from the wheel side of the dropouts using panhead type allen wrench type bolts. The rack is then mounted on the bolt with a Nylock nut from the outside. That way if you shear off a bolt, the bolt can be extracted from the dropout with an allen wrench to replace it, but it might take some filing first. On a derailleur bike, to do that on the drive side your rack mounting point has to be high enough above the axle that the chain will not snag on the bolt when shifting to or from the smallest sprocket. Thus, that does not work on some bikes.
I ran the bolts from the wheel side of the dropout on my light touring bike, but I did it that way because I mounted my fender stays on the wheel side of the dropouts, not from the outside. And then the rack is mounted on the outside of the dropouts with Nylock nuts. But I do not exceed about 50 pounds on the rack on that bike, so I did not do that for fear of shearing off a bolt.
A lot of bikes with 75 pounds on back would feel like a wet noodle when you ride it. I am quite sure that my bike did not have that much weight on the rear rack in the photo below, but it might have been close, I had over two and a half weeks of food on the bike at the time of the photo. This bike uses M6 bolts for racks, not M5 for the extra strength. Rear rack was the Tubus Logo EVO that I mentioned before. This is my heavy touring bike, it was built for that kind of load and it handled it very well.
So nice of you to take the time with me! A very nice set-up you have! It looks like the Gotlieb panniers in the rear like I have. What is the "V" black strap for on the pannier at the bottom? I didn't know Gotlieb makes an over the top kind of bag and I should eventually try to get one of those. Did you mount your racks all with P-clamps or straps? You didn't have braze-ons? More later as I have been up all night and haven't gone to bed yet ha! It's a bad habit of mine when my mind really is active. Thinking too of the geopolitical scene and world travel, but try to stay optimistic. I wish there was a way I could better ease into this and already saving a lot going the P-clamp route but debating spending $95 on that Blackburn front rack as a trial rack... but still might. Have you heard about that front rack. The date is 1983 for when it was popular. So your load was less than 50lbs on rear rack with the bike you have in the picture?
Carpe Diem!
Mike
07-27-23, 08:11 AM
#56
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The panniers are Ortlieb, not sure why you call them Gotlieb.
Look at the photo. There is a hook at the bottom. There is a shoulder strap (I never use it as a shoulder strap but they call it that) that after you roll the top closed, the strap holds the top down that way.
https://www.ortliebusa.com/product/b...-classic-pair/
I have never used clips to mount the lower parts of a rack on a frame. Only once have I used clips on the upper part of a rack on the seatstays, and that was my road bike for light pannier use, for groceries or my gym bag, etc. The bike in the photo uses M6 bolts on the rack for heavy duty use, no straps. That bike frame was rated to carry up to 60 kg of gear, not counting the weight of the rider.
When you say:
So your load was less than 50lbs on rear rack with the bike you have in the picture?
I have no idea where you came up with that when I said:
A lot of bikes with 75 pounds on back would feel like a wet noodle when you ride it. I am quite sure that my bike did not have that much weight on the rear rack in the photo below, but it might have been close, I had over two and a half weeks of food on the bike at the time of the photo.
My reference to less than 50 pounds was for my light touring bike, the one in the photo is my heavy touring bike.
I am out of here.
Look at the photo. There is a hook at the bottom. There is a shoulder strap (I never use it as a shoulder strap but they call it that) that after you roll the top closed, the strap holds the top down that way.
https://www.ortliebusa.com/product/b...-classic-pair/
I have never used clips to mount the lower parts of a rack on a frame. Only once have I used clips on the upper part of a rack on the seatstays, and that was my road bike for light pannier use, for groceries or my gym bag, etc. The bike in the photo uses M6 bolts on the rack for heavy duty use, no straps. That bike frame was rated to carry up to 60 kg of gear, not counting the weight of the rider.
When you say:
So your load was less than 50lbs on rear rack with the bike you have in the picture?
I have no idea where you came up with that when I said:
A lot of bikes with 75 pounds on back would feel like a wet noodle when you ride it. I am quite sure that my bike did not have that much weight on the rear rack in the photo below, but it might have been close, I had over two and a half weeks of food on the bike at the time of the photo.
My reference to less than 50 pounds was for my light touring bike, the one in the photo is my heavy touring bike.
I am out of here.
07-27-23, 09:21 AM
#57
Senior Member
That is a very specific requirement for an extremely limited number of tourers. 16 gallons of water would still be excessive for that desert crossing and most likely than not kill you by itself from water toxemia.
07-27-23, 09:37 AM
#58
Junior Member
Thread Starter
The panniers are Ortlieb, not sure why you call them Gotlieb.
Look at the photo. There is a hook at the bottom. There is a shoulder strap (I never use it as a shoulder strap but they call it that) that after you roll the top closed, the strap holds the top down that way.
https://www.ortliebusa.com/product/b...-classic-pair/
I have never used clips to mount the lower parts of a rack on a frame. Only once have I used clips on the upper part of a rack on the seatstays, and that was my road bike for light pannier use, for groceries or my gym bag, etc. The bike in the photo uses M6 bolts on the rack for heavy duty use, no straps. That bike frame was rated to carry up to 60 kg of gear, not counting the weight of the rider.
When you say:
So your load was less than 50lbs on rear rack with the bike you have in the picture?
I have no idea where you came up with that when I said:
A lot of bikes with 75 pounds on back would feel like a wet noodle when you ride it. I am quite sure that my bike did not have that much weight on the rear rack in the photo below, but it might have been close, I had over two and a half weeks of food on the bike at the time of the photo.
My reference to less than 50 pounds was for my light touring bike, the one in the photo is my heavy touring bike.
I am out of here.
Look at the photo. There is a hook at the bottom. There is a shoulder strap (I never use it as a shoulder strap but they call it that) that after you roll the top closed, the strap holds the top down that way.
https://www.ortliebusa.com/product/b...-classic-pair/
I have never used clips to mount the lower parts of a rack on a frame. Only once have I used clips on the upper part of a rack on the seatstays, and that was my road bike for light pannier use, for groceries or my gym bag, etc. The bike in the photo uses M6 bolts on the rack for heavy duty use, no straps. That bike frame was rated to carry up to 60 kg of gear, not counting the weight of the rider.
When you say:
So your load was less than 50lbs on rear rack with the bike you have in the picture?
I have no idea where you came up with that when I said:
A lot of bikes with 75 pounds on back would feel like a wet noodle when you ride it. I am quite sure that my bike did not have that much weight on the rear rack in the photo below, but it might have been close, I had over two and a half weeks of food on the bike at the time of the photo.
My reference to less than 50 pounds was for my light touring bike, the one in the photo is my heavy touring bike.
I am out of here.
Top of the Day!
Winfred
07-27-23, 09:46 AM
#59
Senior Member
16 gallons = 134 pounds
10 2-liter pop bottles of water = 20 liters = 5.3 gallons = 44 pounds.
excessive? should have carried a couple more bottles.
fully laden -- bike + 4 bags + BOB trailer with 20 liters water
Last edited by saddlesores; 07-27-23 at 09:49 AM.
07-27-23, 10:00 AM
#60
Senior Member
Hi Thabanero!
Thanks for taking the time to give input! Very wise advice. I carry tools with me for flat tire and I spent $35 for a combination tool, a nice one... Cable cutters are expensive but I better have one of those nice Park Tool cable cutters ... use my Park chain cleaning tool
Thanks for taking the time to give input! Very wise advice. I carry tools with me for flat tire and I spent $35 for a combination tool, a nice one... Cable cutters are expensive but I better have one of those nice Park Tool cable cutters ... use my Park chain cleaning tool
By the way Amazon has a very nice bicycle cable cutter for $10. It may not feed the urge for brand names but it will cut cables for the rest of your life.
You want the rack mounted to the frame first, the light stuff can be mounted to the rack itself with P clamps if need be.
Ignore load numbers, you need real life experience as cheaply as possible because A: limited funds, and B: most of us end up trying different hardware until we hit what works best, and C: no plan ever survives contact with the enemy.
On the last bit: I used to carry 43.4 pounds in my rear racks on a regular basis. The number is that specific because that's what two cases of soda weights; I used to do soda runs for the snack cabinet at work. On my trek 720, that weight actually made the bike ride better. On my Schwinn Paramount that I loved for long distance rides the same weight made the bike ride like ****. On either bike it would have been insane to load that weight on the front. Things get dialed in as you put them through the motions.
Go cheap, try and see what works, change and adjust as needed. Repeating on the first point I made I see similar front racks on eBay going for a third of the cost of those Blackburns. You keep saying you are on limited means but you sure don't behave like it.
07-27-23, 10:25 AM
#61
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cape Vincent, NY
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Bikes: Specialized Tarmac Expert, 2002 TREK 520, Schwinn Mesa WINTER BIKE, Huffy Rock Creek 29er, 1970s-era Ross ten speed. All my bikes are highly modified(except the Tarmac) yet functional, and generally look beat to ****. .
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Fun to dream.
07-27-23, 11:19 AM
#62
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I'm going to mention this just in case you don't realize it: for somebody in limited means you really like to spend money on things you don't really need. A generic bike multi tool, generic chain cleaning tool, and generic cable cutters would be a tiny fraction of the amount spent on these. Yes, it is good to buy better tools _if_you_can_afford_them _. I have lusted all my life for snap-on tools. I could buy an entire set of snap-on tools today, I cannot justify in good conscience that expense.
By the way Amazon has a very nice bicycle cable cutter for $10. It may not feed the urge for brand names but it will cut cables for the rest of your life.
You want the rack mounted to the frame first, the light stuff can be mounted to the rack itself with P clamps if need be.
Ignore load numbers, you need real life experience as cheaply as possible because A: limited funds, and B: most of us end up trying different hardware until we hit what works best, and C: no plan ever survives contact with the enemy.
On the last bit: I used to carry 43.4 pounds in my rear racks on a regular basis. The number is that specific because that's what two cases of soda weights; I used to do soda runs for the snack cabinet at work. On my trek 720, that weight actually made the bike ride better. On my Schwinn Paramount that I loved for long distance rides the same weight made the bike ride like ****. On either bike it would have been insane to load that weight on the front. Things get dialed in as you put them through the motions.
Go cheap, try and see what works, change and adjust as needed. Repeating on the first point I made I see similar front racks on eBay going for a third of the cost of those Blackburns. You keep saying you are on limited means but you sure don't behave like it.
By the way Amazon has a very nice bicycle cable cutter for $10. It may not feed the urge for brand names but it will cut cables for the rest of your life.
You want the rack mounted to the frame first, the light stuff can be mounted to the rack itself with P clamps if need be.
Ignore load numbers, you need real life experience as cheaply as possible because A: limited funds, and B: most of us end up trying different hardware until we hit what works best, and C: no plan ever survives contact with the enemy.
On the last bit: I used to carry 43.4 pounds in my rear racks on a regular basis. The number is that specific because that's what two cases of soda weights; I used to do soda runs for the snack cabinet at work. On my trek 720, that weight actually made the bike ride better. On my Schwinn Paramount that I loved for long distance rides the same weight made the bike ride like ****. On either bike it would have been insane to load that weight on the front. Things get dialed in as you put them through the motions.
Go cheap, try and see what works, change and adjust as needed. Repeating on the first point I made I see similar front racks on eBay going for a third of the cost of those Blackburns. You keep saying you are on limited means but you sure don't behave like it.
I have a lot to be thankful for from all here including you. You are one who is very practical and rational and I imagine a high achiever, and you have crossed all your "t's", dotted all your "i's" so to speak. The Park Tool chain cleaner I paid a lot for but had the mind-set it was "best" and would last the longest. I also got the lever and chain style Park tool one uses when removing my seven speed cassette but it was from an outdoor goods coop I'm a member. As a member I get a dividend return at the end of the year, or a percent store credit, but still I'm sure it was more than a generic. I tend to make impractical decisions that follows me. I didn't want to get a cheaper tent as I'm afraid of high winds and tent failure and getting hypothermia plus at times I might live for long periods out of my tent while on my Bucket List world journey.
I see in your great photo you have in addition to 4 panniers a one-wheeled trailer that looks like the Burley CoHo I've eyed for several years. I bought Ortlieb expensive rear panniers on my stimulus money we in USA got during CoVid. Oh, I love Austrailia and have only seen it in documentaries and photos but on my budget I bet the customs there wouldn't let me in the country. I also have to get a lot of vaccines that in the USA actually cost several thousand dollars. For my 54 countries I went through the Center For Disease Control world map and list of vaccines required and came up with a composite list of I think it was 11 vaccines! An example is Japanese encephalitis is $1,200, and for rabies it's about the same!! They say wait and get them in a different country, so maybe in Mexico, but some vaccines are not just one injection. For some you have to wait 2 months then get the second one, so maybe have to stay in Mexico for 2 months.
Those Orliebs I got through the coop and got a dividend return, so a little, not a lot, less. To match I want the front panniers that will cost $140. It's not a lesser expense and so maybe buy used for my first trial journey like you so wisely advise. I have to admit to myself I might get out there and realize I can't do my world journey with such a load. Plus I have to try to do it on a carnivore diet. Freeze dried food is not cheap. I plan to make some of my own "pemican" out of meat and tallow that they say can keep up to 50 years.
I'll look at those used racks on ebay, but maybe for the front I'll get that $95 one as I'm worried about hidden fatigue cracks etc and at least with new old stock there won't be any. Let me know what you think of the "Fig B" that is in the photo of the install instructions the seller included. A lot bolts on at the one threaded fork islet I have that already has my Portland Design Works brand fender (got it on sale from that coop but paid $139 for them fenders a couple of years ago but wanted good metal fenders and glad I did) At Fig B they show the front rack, and the narrow Blackburn platform type rack I also want to find, and my fender will all attach at the same bolt. Is that bad, too much? How much would you carry with that Blackburn front rack? Is there a trick where I could attach one of those three to a different point via maybe a P-clamp? I'll include the link below.
At the Blackburn ebay ad click the down arrow on the tiny list of photos to the far left and the illustration Fig B is the first photo below the photo of the bag of hardware you get. It's strange as the hardware doesn't have the nylon type nuts that don't go loose with vibration they are just regular nuts which makes me wonder what Blackburn designers were thinking when they created the rack. What would be the strongest brand of bolt to use? I'll see how I do as relatives are about 160 miles away, and that park in canada is 582 miles one way but along the same route to my relatives. Having touring capacity I'll be finally be going out of the "city" first time since just before my brother transcended in 2019, and before that it was just before my brother-in-law transcended in 2015, so this capacity to "tour" is opening a big door for me and exciting to finally leave once all of my ducks are in a row as they say. Time is wasting too as I wonder about my older sister's health and another brother-in-law transcended about 3 weeks ago so going to see that sister too. Just making the pemican is going to be a big challenge. Buying freeze dried meat is so expensive it's prohibitive on my budget. The temp is climbing and I have to get groceries and a high of 96 F today! I'm very grateful to you and others here. I'm going to hold my breath and go to ebay to decide later today... but there's that adage "opportunity only knocks once" and I've made that mistake in life too... I hope my experience and data here helps a lot of others like me in the future. This is great! So much to be thankful for!
Top of the Day!
Winfred
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285366324902
Last edited by winfred0000; 07-27-23 at 11:27 AM.
07-27-23, 11:30 AM
#63
Senior Member
Racks don't just fatigue crack on you. ****** racks can have weld points fail, so what you do is buy high quality _used_racks_ that can be had for pretty much free.
You will not know what issues you will have installing a rack until you try to install said rack. They can be finicky because they are made to fit as many bikes as possible. So head out to the bike co-op, get a $10 rack, and install it already. that one experience is worth 50 pages of talking about it here.
You will not know what issues you will have installing a rack until you try to install said rack. They can be finicky because they are made to fit as many bikes as possible. So head out to the bike co-op, get a $10 rack, and install it already. that one experience is worth 50 pages of talking about it here.
07-27-23, 11:34 AM
#64
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Racks don't just fatigue crack on you. ****** racks can have weld points fail, so what you do is buy high quality _used_racks_ that can be had for pretty much free.
You will not know what issues you will have installing a rack until you try to install said rack. They can be finicky because they are made to fit as many bikes as possible. So head out to the bike co-op, get a $10 rack, and install it already. that one experience is worth 50 pages of talking about it here.
You will not know what issues you will have installing a rack until you try to install said rack. They can be finicky because they are made to fit as many bikes as possible. So head out to the bike co-op, get a $10 rack, and install it already. that one experience is worth 50 pages of talking about it here.
Great advice again! I asked them all about front racks and none are used and one coop has $35 aluminum front rack new but just looking at it, it looks like it will soon break. So I have to look online for front rack but will try for a rear rack. Maybe I'll go to one coop that has a lot of parts then get groceries, a lot though in 96 degree heat, but the sooner the better so I can finally get on the road.
Thanks!
Winfred
07-27-23, 08:08 PM
#65
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Hi!
Will these front pannier bags and their racks work on my 1998 Diamondback 26 inch rigid frame Cro-Mo 4130 steel bike? https://madison.craigslist.org/bop/d...640159795.html If the racks are not compatible is there a way to clamp them to my fork? I only have the typical threaded islets down by where the front wheel clamps in.
Thanks!
Winfred
PS I'm asking because it's the bags plus the racks and need to be sure as I remember talking to 4 shops in-person and one over the phone that front racks used they rarely get so I found this online. Also there is one shop I can't recall if I asked about front racks and will go to them. I had to cancel today because of thunderstorms about the time I would finally make it to my destination.
Will these front pannier bags and their racks work on my 1998 Diamondback 26 inch rigid frame Cro-Mo 4130 steel bike? https://madison.craigslist.org/bop/d...640159795.html If the racks are not compatible is there a way to clamp them to my fork? I only have the typical threaded islets down by where the front wheel clamps in.
Thanks!
Winfred
PS I'm asking because it's the bags plus the racks and need to be sure as I remember talking to 4 shops in-person and one over the phone that front racks used they rarely get so I found this online. Also there is one shop I can't recall if I asked about front racks and will go to them. I had to cancel today because of thunderstorms about the time I would finally make it to my destination.
Last edited by winfred0000; 07-27-23 at 08:18 PM.
07-27-23, 09:30 PM
#67
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for looking! I know all the existing holes in the rack are in a straight line and my fork is curved but still asked because there's a lot I don't know and would feel more confident if an experience person took a look who probably knows ways to jerry-rig things effectively. They are very nice bags I'd never heard of and went to the link the seller provided and they are amazing and like too how they are waterproof and nice access with unique zippers etc. Maybe when something seems too good to be true there are hidden problems. I just didn't want to pass them up as they are so unusual from what I'd seen and amazing quality etc and wanted to be sure by asking more experienced bikers.
Top of the Evening!
Winfred
07-30-23, 02:19 AM
#68
Junior Member
Thread Starter
New challenge with my racks
Hi!
I tried to save for now and with my first trials before my big Bucket List venture I bought a Blackburn front rack as NOS from 1983 off EBay costing $101 with tax but there are no returns. The rack is in the mail. It suddenly dawned on me... as usual too late... the particular fork I had to buy used for $15 that I had installed last fall because my threaded original fork was stripped is what I'm concerned about. I took photos of my fork and the threaded islet area right by where my wheel clamps in so you can see what I mean. Presently my fender is attached there.
Also I provided a link to the eBay ad of the rack I purchased, and did so to save and have a cheaper set-up at least for now as I might discover I don't have the stamina for such a major venture and will make several shorter trips, and one not so minor possible for several weeks that could be 1,500 to 2,000 miles. With the eBay ad in the far left is a vertical row of about 10 photos. At the bottom of the row click the down arrow and more photos appear. If you scroll to the photo just below the one of the hardware that comes with the rack the seller took a photo of a page from how to install the rack. There is a general overall drawing where you'll see what I mean and also a "Fig B" that is a close up. If you move the mouse arrow over the photo it will zoom for a better view. Also, with the NOS hardware could the what I think is non-skid coating have hardened over the years and no longer grip well, or is that not a problem.
As you see it, will I have a major problem trying to bolt the rack to my particular design of a fork? Are there other problems I might have as I am going to mainly attach my NOS front rack via the instructions and possibly if needed any additional P-clamps. It's not the original Diamondback fork and I think maybe I'd seen a similar fork on an old Trek.
Can I have in a special way bend the rack custom bent to fit... or will there even be a problem in the first place? I see a problem because my particular fork has an odd very thick diameter fork tong. How much do you think it would cost to jerry rig it? I'll hold on buying some used front panniers on eBay until you can see what I mean.
Thanks!
Mike
This is the ad for the rack: https://www.ebay.com/itm/285366324902
I tried to save for now and with my first trials before my big Bucket List venture I bought a Blackburn front rack as NOS from 1983 off EBay costing $101 with tax but there are no returns. The rack is in the mail. It suddenly dawned on me... as usual too late... the particular fork I had to buy used for $15 that I had installed last fall because my threaded original fork was stripped is what I'm concerned about. I took photos of my fork and the threaded islet area right by where my wheel clamps in so you can see what I mean. Presently my fender is attached there.
Also I provided a link to the eBay ad of the rack I purchased, and did so to save and have a cheaper set-up at least for now as I might discover I don't have the stamina for such a major venture and will make several shorter trips, and one not so minor possible for several weeks that could be 1,500 to 2,000 miles. With the eBay ad in the far left is a vertical row of about 10 photos. At the bottom of the row click the down arrow and more photos appear. If you scroll to the photo just below the one of the hardware that comes with the rack the seller took a photo of a page from how to install the rack. There is a general overall drawing where you'll see what I mean and also a "Fig B" that is a close up. If you move the mouse arrow over the photo it will zoom for a better view. Also, with the NOS hardware could the what I think is non-skid coating have hardened over the years and no longer grip well, or is that not a problem.
As you see it, will I have a major problem trying to bolt the rack to my particular design of a fork? Are there other problems I might have as I am going to mainly attach my NOS front rack via the instructions and possibly if needed any additional P-clamps. It's not the original Diamondback fork and I think maybe I'd seen a similar fork on an old Trek.
Can I have in a special way bend the rack custom bent to fit... or will there even be a problem in the first place? I see a problem because my particular fork has an odd very thick diameter fork tong. How much do you think it would cost to jerry rig it? I'll hold on buying some used front panniers on eBay until you can see what I mean.
Thanks!
Mike
This is the ad for the rack: https://www.ebay.com/itm/285366324902
Last edited by winfred0000; 07-30-23 at 02:36 AM. Reason: Clarified my wording
07-30-23, 09:05 AM
#69
buy my bikes
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,803
Bikes: my very own customized GUNNAR CrossHairs
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AIChatBot
I have not been able to read this entire thread yet, but have done a bit more than skim.
Am I the only one thinking the OP is a chatbot or something? …not that there’s anything wrong with being a chatbot….
cheers and top of everything!
Am I the only one thinking the OP is a chatbot or something? …not that there’s anything wrong with being a chatbot….
cheers and top of everything!
Likes For mrv:
07-30-23, 10:34 AM
#70
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Very nice of you to take the time with my thread! What is a "chatbot" and an "OP"? Do you mean some automated form of response that is not a person where "bot" means robot? I am a real person and living in Minnesota. I've received invaluable help here about getting my old 1998 Diamondback up to par so I can go camping/biking with it. I learned I can do well by instead of having a frame builder do "braze-ons" for support of my baggage racks that I can do it myself using P-clamps, a huge savings as my original quote was $790 including Surly front and rear racks and not including sales tax. I also received very wise advice to at first do the very lowest cost attempt and see if I have the stamina at being 69 years young to embark on a world bucket list journey. I'm wondering with my most recent hurdle in ordering a nice Blackburn front rack if with my particular fork if I might run into problems so I included photos. I'm curios if advice might lead to needing two braze-ons because my fork has an unusual diameter in the tong arms that alter access to the threaded islets where my fenders attach, but not sure. Maybe too there is an extra large style of a P-clamp that works or possibly a lot more advice from people with remarkable expertise here. I hope too that others like me planning to "tour" extensively or even in short term can glean something from my experience with this thread from all the phenomenal people and their input. I hope they/I helped you too.
Buona Giornata!
Winfred
07-30-23, 11:13 AM
#71
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Racks don't just fatigue crack on you. ****** racks can have weld points fail, so what you do is buy high quality _used_racks_ that can be had for pretty much free.
You will not know what issues you will have installing a rack until you try to install said rack. They can be finicky because they are made to fit as many bikes as possible. So head out to the bike co-op, get a $10 rack, and install it already. that one experience is worth 50 pages of talking about it here.
You will not know what issues you will have installing a rack until you try to install said rack. They can be finicky because they are made to fit as many bikes as possible. So head out to the bike co-op, get a $10 rack, and install it already. that one experience is worth 50 pages of talking about it here.
I went to two shops that sell used parts and they had rear racks, but two mechanics in both shops said the rear rack I have is very strong. I said when I carry about 60lbs of groceries I feel a kind of sway. It happens when I'm pedaling as I hold onto the handlebars. It happens with the kind of lateral motion the rider causes when pedaling that I'll notice the sway. One mechanic pointed at the P-clamps that hold my rack under the seat on those diagonal supports that I maybe need to tighten those nuts. So I never realized my Axion rack is very strong. One mechanic said it's got the extra kind of hoop support that makes it stronger somehow. I remembered long ago I said to a mechanic my rack is rated to carry 100lbs. He said never carry that much with my rack, like it is a flimsy rack. I'm going to go as it is, that my rack is good enough. From the photos I provide, how do you or anyone here see it? Is it good enough? Also, do you think the rack support being on the outside of the lower bolt and the fender support being to the inside will cantilever or put more pressure on the bolt than if rack weight was put to the inside and the fender support to the outside?
Thanks!
Winfred
PS All I need is another problem. If it wasn't your communication and my taking photos that I just discovered a worse case scenario with my fairly new Cliffhanger wheel I bought 2 yrs ago and had custom built for $240. In the photo I took of where my rack attaches to the frame in the background you'll notice the crack. I only saw it in the photo, so I rubbed away the dust and it was the dust that revealed the crack. Can I do okay with that crack or can the spoke pop through the rim? Does it mean I need another wheel? I have 36 double butted spokes per wheel. I try to be careful but Minnesota has so many bad pot holes. The alignment is okay. I went flying headfirst over the handlebars and knocked the rear alignment out with a rare recent accident about a month ago. I had a very good wheel man who works for a company that builds wheels for shops only who works part time for a regular bike shop I go to true it. It wasn't very far out of true, just some. I felt kind of bad as he trued it not with a truing stand but just as it was on my bike. He did it in minutes while I waited and he didn't even charge me for it. Truing without a stand I just relied on the fact he is about as expert as they come for wheels. What do you or anyone think of that emergent rim crack problem? Does it mean I need a new wheel? Thanks!
Last edited by winfred0000; 07-30-23 at 11:33 AM. Reason: my message was split before and after photos and I rejoined it into one whole message followed by the photos
07-30-23, 12:01 PM
#72
Senior Member
There is nothing wrong with that rack. How long are your chainstays? Most of the issues with rear rack panniers is that your heel ends up hitting the rack. That could be addressed with a bar mounted lower and towards the back so you achieve a lower center of gravity and more clearance. Still, don't fix it if you don't have a problem. I would prefer a rack that puts the weight on a straight line down instead of an angle but no biggie.
That crack is not good. I would have no issues riding the bike around town but that tire is on its last leg. That crack is not going to get better, it can lead the tire to get out of round, and you can't tighten it because you risk pulling the spoke through. You keep saying that you are in a budget so start hunting for a replacement rim and make it a winter project to re-lace that wheel, I would reuse the spokes. Then take it to the bike co-op to get it right on their truing stand and some guidance.
That crack is not good. I would have no issues riding the bike around town but that tire is on its last leg. That crack is not going to get better, it can lead the tire to get out of round, and you can't tighten it because you risk pulling the spoke through. You keep saying that you are in a budget so start hunting for a replacement rim and make it a winter project to re-lace that wheel, I would reuse the spokes. Then take it to the bike co-op to get it right on their truing stand and some guidance.
07-30-23, 12:52 PM
#74
Junior Member
Thread Starter
There is nothing wrong with that rack. How long are your chainstays? Most of the issues with rear rack panniers is that your heel ends up hitting the rack. That could be addressed with a bar mounted lower and towards the back so you achieve a lower center of gravity and more clearance. Still, don't fix it if you don't have a problem. I would prefer a rack that puts the weight on a straight line down instead of an angle but no biggie.
That crack is not good. I would have no issues riding the bike around town but that tire is on its last leg. That crack is not going to get better, it can lead the tire to get out of round, and you can't tighten it because you risk pulling the spoke through. You keep saying that you are in a budget so start hunting for a replacement rim and make it a winter project to re-lace that wheel, I would reuse the spokes. Then take it to the bike co-op to get it right on their truing stand and some guidance.
That crack is not good. I would have no issues riding the bike around town but that tire is on its last leg. That crack is not going to get better, it can lead the tire to get out of round, and you can't tighten it because you risk pulling the spoke through. You keep saying that you are in a budget so start hunting for a replacement rim and make it a winter project to re-lace that wheel, I would reuse the spokes. Then take it to the bike co-op to get it right on their truing stand and some guidance.
Hi Abdon and All!
Sorry I get so verbose and trying to shorten this. I value your advice and that of others here too. I'm in a challenging situation with this crack in my Cliffhanger rear wheel rim. See it at Post #71 just above this in the third photo. I felt it and sure enough it is a crack. The Velocity wheel company said they are no longer making that 26 inch rim. Does anyone have any advice? I checked and no other cracks than that one. I’ll only use it commuting locally until I gather more information like you advise Abdon.Are there any brands of 26 inch rims that are highly respected that you might suggest? Also I have 36 double butted spokes in the wheel and would 40 spokes be that much stronger and costing more would it be worth it to get a 40 spoke rim?
A very experienced wheel person trued my wheel without a truing stand after it was knocked slightly off true in an accident a month ago. I won't blame him for anything, but just for my own education... is it common for a very experienced wheel person to true a wheel without using a truing stand? I wonder if that is what led to my cracked rim. Does anyone think that’s what maybe caused the crack? I thought my wheel was very strong and why just one spoke hole with a crack? Minnesota does have very bad potholes that are hard to avoid, especially when commuting at night, and even when using my headlight. Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Winfred
Last edited by winfred0000; 07-31-23 at 12:41 PM. Reason: needed to rewrite more concisely
08-05-23, 02:40 AM
#75
Senior Member
Head to your local co-op, see what they have for $10 bucks... My co-op currently has a brand spanking new Velocity Dyad 40 whole rim for said $10 bucks. People donate the darnest things, including a $106 dollar rim that is there for $10 bucks.
And yes, it is perfectly reasonable to true an existing wheel while on the bike. Correcting a small wobble is not the same as all the steps it takes to correctly build a wheel.
Last edited by abdon; 08-08-23 at 02:21 AM.