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Garmin vector on the track?

Old 03-08-16, 02:03 PM
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DMC707
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Garmin vector on the track?

Just curious as i am looking at power meter options

The first thing i thought was the little power pods that dangle under the pedal sure would not stand up to any slides down the banking, - but Garmin says the pedal will hit first, saving the pods in most cases
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Old 03-08-16, 02:54 PM
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I'd be more concerned if they produce reliable data when used on a fixed gear, which I've read comments from coach Alex Simmons that the data is variable. From discussions I've seen online from others with the P1 pedals, from initial usage the seem to handle negative torque better... Though take a long time to wake up on standing starts. I will try and find those comments again if interested.
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Old 03-08-16, 08:29 PM
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I've been running a Vector S (the cheaper left side only option) for about a year now. My main reason for getting it was of course cost, and my next reason was that I could swap between my road bike and track bike easily. I could do a long road ride one day, and then install it on the track bike for racing.

My home track is Kissena, and I visit T-Town a few times a year, so pedal strike isn't really a concern for me. That being said, I'm fairly certain the pedal pod can be in any position without it really affecting things. I don't know if that's the case for the Vector 2/2S. One thing I've noticed about the Vector on Kissena is that the power data will sometimes cut out for a second or less. My hypothesis is that the track is so bumpy that I'm being bounced around so much that I'm not straining the PM. At T-Town, it works fine.

Given that they are road-specific, they aren't great for measuring peak power for standing starts. This doesn't bother me too much as I'm an enduro and it isn't so much about peak power for me, just how long I can hold it. Additionally, when backpedaling, it doesn't measure anything. When I'm on my track bike on the road to do sprint intervals and I'm backpedaling to slow down, the power reading just drops to 0.

Ultimately, I'm happy with them, but that's coming from a broke enduro. Any PM is better than none, and these are great because they are cheap, easy to swap between road and track bikes, and accurate. Garmin Support has also always been very helpful which is a lot more than can be said for some companies' support.
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Old 03-08-16, 11:45 PM
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Thank you, both

This seems to confim what i was thinking - that the Garmin system may not be absolutely perfect for a trackie, but i live 200 miles from the nearest track

That means i do a ton of training away from the track too ---- i'm checking out the Powertap pedals too as they are reportedly even cheaper --- i just need consistently accurate readings
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Old 03-09-16, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by TrackMonkey7
Ultimately, I'm happy with them, but that's coming from a broke enduro. Any PM is better than none, and these are great because they are cheap, easy to swap between road and track bikes, and accurate.
I'd debate accuracy. Accurate enough depending on what you want to use it for... Data logging fine, aero testing not!

My biggest concern with one leg PM's is just doubling left leg power. Due to pedalling asymmetry and how it varies depending on the level of effort with individuals, if the imbalance ends up being greater at harder efforts, then the degree of variance from actual power will be greater. Now if pedaling asymmetry was consistent for a given level of effort, then you could suggest it is repeatable. Unfortunately this isn't the case as pedaling asymmetry at a certain effort can vary depending on fatigue and other factors.
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Old 03-09-16, 06:45 AM
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Comment from the Track Sprinting FB page in regards to the P1 pedals used on the track.

"They are very slow to wake up 3-8sec, so not suitable for short efforts from dead stop (starts). Otherwise very easy to install and consistent. Cadence measuring with hall effect instead of acceleration sensors is the key to it => accurate cadence'
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Old 03-09-16, 06:47 AM
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I use Vector S but haven't yet used them on my track bike.

Shouldn't have any problem with the pedal pods on a track bike, as the bars would probably hit the deck first, then the pedals.

Make sure you retourqe and calibrate before every ride, and set the correct bike profile on the Garmin Head Unit showing crank length mainly.

Also need to think about how you are going to use the data. If you're training for a pursuit, its great as you can ride the right wattage for x amount of laps. This could also be used when attacking in a scratch race. How would you use this in a points or elimination race though where you are sprinting and recovering time after time, especially as most velodromes (here in the UK anyway) don't allow any head unit attached to the bike

Climatic conditions can also effect power where you can't see the output. In a headwind, you will be putting out more watts per given km/h than you would in a tail wind.

Another useful tool is measuring cadence
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Old 03-09-16, 11:06 AM
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I use power2max on all my bikes (including road) but you lose some options for cranksets. I didn't care for how finicky the Garmin pods were, I used to calibrate and repair avionics equipment so I'm not unused to touchy equipment (I just don't want it on my bike).

Edit: The power2max is a 144bcd for the track though it's the Rotor3d track spider on the road arms so the Q is different than you might suspect - this surprised me when I got the set and think it's worth mentioning.
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Old 03-09-16, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Dalai
I'd debate accuracy. Accurate enough depending on what you want to use it for... Data logging fine, aero testing not!

My biggest concern with one leg PM's is just doubling left leg power. Due to pedalling asymmetry and how it varies depending on the level of effort with individuals, if the imbalance ends up being greater at harder efforts, then the degree of variance from actual power will be greater. Now if pedaling asymmetry was consistent for a given level of effort, then you could suggest it is repeatable. Unfortunately this isn't the case as pedaling asymmetry at a certain effort can vary depending on fatigue and other factors.
+1

I pretty much use them for data logging. I'll never extol them as being great track PMs, they're not at all. But for an enduro nerd with limited funds, they check all the boxes I need them to. While I'm certain I have noticeable asymmetries (I can't lift as much with my left leg as my right), when I do start efforts, I'm merely wanting to record that I did a big effort a bunch of times. I'm not too interested in how much power I generate in the first 5 seconds of my effort because that's not too important to me, but I am interested in how long I can maintain the rest of the effort and my average power during it.
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Old 03-09-16, 06:21 PM
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Nice. Sounds like it is accurate enough for your purpose. Just wanted to clarify for others that there are different levels to accuracy and be aware of this when deciding on a PM. As there is so much more possible with a PM than just data logging, but for these greater accuracy may be required.
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Old 03-09-16, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by TrackMonkey7
+1

I'm not too interested in how much power I generate in the first 5 seconds of my effort because that's not too important to me, but I am interested in how long I can maintain the rest of the effort and my average power during it.
bummer- the first 5 seconds was a parameter i am hugely interested in
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Old 03-10-16, 11:30 AM
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It isn't an irrelevant number if you're a person that can't burn a match and still go hard afterwards.
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Old 03-10-16, 04:38 PM
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Having read DMC707's intro in the Masters section, pretty sure his match only has to be lit once and stay alight for 30 something seconds... Hence the first 5 seconds are important.
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Old 03-10-16, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Dalai
Having read DMC707's intro in the Masters section, pretty sure his match only has to be lit once and stay alight for 30 something seconds... Hence the first 5 seconds are important.
Agreed.

Losing data for the first 5 seconds is bad for both Enduros and Sprinters. The answer for Sprinters is obvious, that's where a lot of the energy of the effort is spent. But, remember the first 3 rules of pursuiting:

1: Don't go out too hard.
2: Don't go out too hard.
3: Don't go out too hard.

Countless pursuit efforts have been ruined in the first 5 seconds
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Old 03-11-16, 12:17 PM
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I should have put this in the power meter thread that is already going --- i spaced out and didnt see it ---

--- I didnt think about the thing being on ALL the time -- like rolling around in the infield --- or if on a roadbike, - the 10 miles of warm up noodling around until you start your interval workout

The latest Garmin "super computer" (the 1000 - not brand new but has only been out about a year) has little remote attachments available so you can pause, start or stop your ride , or shift the head unit to different screens without taking your hand off the hoods though if you are doing road training ---- i am going to investigate whether this will pause the power meter signal too without stopping it completely

I was not aware Powertap was making a competing product -- i generally like almost everything Garmin does, but i think the P'Tap pedals have 'em beat in a couple different areas


It promises to be a long rainy weekend in my AO --- i will likely be spending a fair bit of time reading up on DC Rainmaker's stuff -- He's a triathlon enthusiast, but he puts together mountains of info about bike electronics
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Old 03-11-16, 01:48 PM
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DC Rainmaker is a nice guy. He's very thorough, tough, and fair with his reviews. That's why his blog is so highly regarded.

He also has the ear of the manufacturers. When he speaks, they listen.
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Old 03-11-16, 05:34 PM
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You will want all the data. Easy to mark intervals manually in the software to view key efforts after downloading the data.

Why wouldn't you want to be able to review warm up data? Maybe you strayed a little from your regular warm up protocol and had a blinder of a race. You can check the file and see what was different and can try it again next time. You can also use all your ride data to track TSS...

Although key efforts are the most important, ideally capturing all your rides will give you a better idea of the impact of your time in the saddle.
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Old 03-13-16, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Dalai
Having read DMC707's intro in the Masters section, pretty sure his match only has to be lit once and stay alight for 30 something seconds... Hence the first 5 seconds are important.
That's what I'm saying in a long winded way.
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Old 03-13-16, 12:03 PM
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