Psimet2001 

This seems as good as any of a place to share a new happening or a first.

I got to work World Cup pits at both Jingle Cross and Trek CXC. I've done about 20+ normal UCI pro C1 and C2 pits for both Men and Women as well as National Championships, etc. Up until last weekend I hadn't done a World Cup.

US Team had 19 riders at Jingle. Each rider gets 2 mechanics and a Soigneur. Luckily most soigneurs stayed at the finish lines with water as technically the US only has like 2 bays to work out of. We waited a few laps then spread out waiting for a Nat Com or UCI official to drop the hammer on us but they didn't GAF.

I love bikes.

BTW - helluva lot easier than getting there through racing ability.

Doge

Cool. Junior has got a cross frenzy now and I'm now watching this stuff. Pits look cool.
Looks like you have some neat wide rims.

mattm

I just a roadie so don't really understand anything in this thread; but I did just watch the cx race in Waterloo - same race I guess?

Damn that one guy just dropped everyone!

rankin116

My team held our first cross race this past Sunday. We got amazing turnout, with the highest reg numbers so far in the local series. We had 36 juniors, 30 W4/5, and 37 40+ 4/5s. Awesome to see the high reg numbers in the beginner categories for a local race.

This was also our first time using the park and my first time designing a course, and we got great comments about the park and the course.

I'm really pleased and proud of the event we put on.

Porkchopwi

@rankin116:
What methods did you use to to attract that number of women and jrs?

Psimet2001 

Cross is 70% of my business. It is by far the future of all cycling disciplines in the US in terms of long term growth and popularity.

Psimet2001 

Road license has 3 disciplines on it: Track, Road, and Cross. It's a roadie sport.

Yup - Waterloo was one of the two world cups I worked. I worked the elite women's field. Yes he dropped everyone like a rock. I was about 1/4 of the way into the course. He had 5 seconds on the field at that point on the first lap. 20 seconds by the time he passed us again - about 3/4 of the first lap.

Doge

It is kinda weird on the upgrade process. A road Cat1 is a Cat 5 on track, Cat 4 cx. Even on track there is a world of difference from a sprinter to...the rest. A Cat 1 in any of road disciplines should not really be competing with the 3/4 s in another.

Is cx planned to be an Olympic sport?

rankin116

We didn't do anything special. I give credit to the series promoter and the local community. The series has a separate W4/5 race, the people around here are incredibly welcoming and encouraging to new racers. We also have a thriving junior field, and when they race everyone is cheering for them.

Also, there is little to no heckling around here, which I think is fantastic. People are nothing but encouraging to racers as they pass.

I'm a C4 for cx, and I got beat this weekend by a Cat 1 roadie doing his first cx race. He should not have been in my race, but I also didn't care to much about it; we all start somewhere.

topflightpro

Doge, IIRC, a Cat 1 can apply for upgrade to Cat 3 in Cross or Cat 2 on the track without ever doing a single race.

Ttoc6

I shudder at the though of a fresh roadie upgrading to race in the bigger 1/2 fields on the track. Just very different racing and you'll probably get a good talking to for violating a lot of the code of track racing. Not saying stick them in the 4s, but make them learn somewhere safe. In Seattle they would never approve that upgrade. Go do the class and earn your right to race with the big boys on track merit.

Now cross is different. Race where you belong. #usackillscross

topflightpro

I was mistaken.

A Pro/Cat 1 on the road or Pro mountain biker can request a Cat 1 upgrade in CX. (Cyclo-cross Category Upgrade Guidelines - USA Cycling)

For Track, I was correct, a Pro/Cat 1 on the road can request a Cat 2 upgrade. (Track Category Upgrade Guidelines - USA Cycling)


Many tracks have more strict standards and require newer racers to participate in lower level events regardless of their USAC Category.

dz_nuzz

My guess is that most of the Cat 1 roadies would probably not upgrade just because they can in another discipline. They probably understand that being the equivalent of a Cat 5 walking into an elite race is probably not a good idea.

That being said, I have debated requesting my Cat 1 in CX just to make all my CX friends salty because I "cheated". Granted if I did that I would then be committing myself to never racing. I still wonder if cross is going through a bubble or not. Anecdotally I have seen a number of "CROSS SEASON IS THE ONLY SEASON" people decide they want to focus on road again.

Doge

I care. I mean, I'm not mad, but it is less fun / less purpose seeing miss-matches. We are seeing if USAC will give an upgrade by request. I tend to think they are pretty reasonable that way.
If not the time it takes to get the upgrade to compete - particularly collegiate, if my kid went the full route through all the upgrades and disciplines he'd be a senior before he could do all collegiate nationals (because you have to be an A in each).

Everyone needs to learn the basic skill/trade/etiquette but similar to what is done on a velodrome cert class could be done in other sports. Once you learn the basics all the cycling disciplines are more about fitness. Sure there are sprints, and hill climbs etc. in all the disciplines.

EDIT Add: This post is mostly moot thanks to the input above.

Doge

On the track sprinting vs other is very different.

LA you have to be track certified. It is not category based.

Doge

Thank you! That makes sense.

Psimet2001 

A lot of roadies are going back to road but the numbers for cross aren't going down per se. There was a small dip last year. This season looks more crowded so far. I remember talking to Joan Hanscom after she put on worlds in 2013. She predicted a sharp decline in cross in the year or two following worlds in the US followed by a resurgence in 4-5 years. It never really dipped.

I have seen riders leave cross like they naturally leave road but a lot of those riders having taken a couple of years off are also coming back to cross in the same way a lot of people come back to road.

The atmosphere has changed a bit as well. We heckle the hell out of everyone. We are pretty known for it in Chicago but even that tone has gone almost 100% to "positive" heckling. "I love how you chose that line when everyone else was going on that other one. Kudos for the effort!"

As for the upgrading.....

I have 2 thoughts: the roadies that sit and bash cross because it draws away racers in the fall when the racing can sometimes be the best of the year on the road are the ones that usually hate cross because they are so good at road and have found out first hand it isn't directly translatable.

Favorite heckle for an area top roadie (cat 1) the season he stumbled through cross was, "STOP TURNING LIKE A ROADIE!!". He laughed everytime.

As we all know there are a lot of riders that can become proficient to excellent in both and an engine is an engine. I enjoyed it when roadies could come into cross at 1 category lower than their road designation. Then again I had some cat 2 and 1 roadies that hated that because they knew they sucked at cross and wanted to race in the 4/5's and have fun.

Regardless - let's not forget we can always request upgrades and or downgrades as desired. While you can't downgrade to a 5 technically you can with an LA's approval. I found this out when joking in our annual promoter's meeting to our upgrade official how I should really be downgraded to a 5 at this point when he looked at the LA and yelled, "Hey Larry, can I downgrade Rob to a 5?" to which he replied, "Absolutely".

Psimet2001 

This is one of the major reasons cross long ago eclipsed road. It is way more welcoming to all racers. Our women's and juniors participation numbers directly demonstrate that as fact. Our first Chicago Cross Cup race this year had a field of women's 5 and junior 9-14 that total sized was something like 120 racers. Out of that roughly 60-80 of them were the 9-14 juniors.

Here we also have a women's 1/2 field and a women's 3/4 race. These are all fairly well represented as well when on the road - the last major road crit we had that was local we had 7 women toe the line in the women's P1-4 field. My team had 4 of those women in that race as well.

This is also why my podcast's name is "Road is Dead".

Yes - road is coming back but it won't be like cross is .....like....ever again...

topflightpro

Doge, as a Cat 1 on the Road, Daniel qualifies to race Collegiate A in Road, Cross or Track: Collegiate Categories and Upgrade Requirements - USA Cycling

Doge

Isn't that the same if you were a pursuit guy that wanted to become a sprinter? I good rider is a good rider. There are rules, and safety things but that is different than category. I think you want a rider that is safe (take a class/get certified) and can control their bike (test them) and is competitive. It would be weird for a roadie to want to do big guy match sprints. But to want to jump on and compete in pursuit, omnium, something that they have the skill, speed and know the rules for should not require a whole bunch of hoops to jump through.

Doge

Thanks to you I saw that above and jumped on it.
It is the way it should be, but each upgrade needs to be submitted and then the license shows pending, so it is not computer automatic.

A few months ago COS track required Cat 4 to do training. So he requested an upgrade and went from a 5 to a 4. Should have requested a 2 I guess.

Ttoc6

I don't think so because neither of those things offer upgrade points or areass start for that matter. It's the same way that the best time trialist all start in cat 5 like the rest of us.

Regarding your category problem for collegiate, I disagree. The cat system and season layout for collegiate encourages riders to move up quickly and race in their local usac races. It is significantly easier to get out of cat 5 in collegiate on the road than any other way. One collegiate season and you're easily a 4 with maybe a point or two. Race over the summer locally, figure it out. Submit to b category half way through season. Do well enough (or don't like I did and take an extra season). Then go collect your cat upgrade points the next summer and you're in the as (3s)by your 3rd year.

I saw a number of riders follow this methodology in the northwest and I enjoyed racing against them fondly. Too many racers, however, don't so the summer racing part and that's when it gets tough to upgrade quickly.

Ttoc6

I've noticed this in both parts of the country try I've lived in. A lot more people. Same number of serious people. Seattle would pull >1000 people for in city races a few times.

Also, just wanted to say I've got two (women) racer friends that are sponsored by your company and your wheels look great in their pics on insta.

globecanvas

Those cross-grade rules changed and are a little odd. Road 2s have to be cross 4s but road 1s are cross 1s? Whatever, it doesn't matter much as people will find their right categories quickly enough.

I wish I was better at cross. The only two things I'm good at, conserving energy and knowing when not to, are both useless in a cross race.

Ttoc6

Ah you'd be great. Here's how to utilize your two skills.
Conserving energy: conserve for the hole shot.
Knowing when not to conserve: the rest of the race.