Cyclebum

Nothing more than an old inner tube, cheap, and simple. Remove valve, stuff into the tire as flat as possible, install the good tube, inflate.

The thread on the tire, rear, is getting a bit thin. Trying to milk all the life out of the tire. Lining it with the inner tube seems like a bit of insurance.

But does it offer any puncture value? Or any value at all?

IDK. What do you think?

fietsbob

Just buy Thorn Resistant tubes , they are molded thicker around the outside , than the inside.

they also retain air better..

and probably should not try to get the tread down to show casing fabric, before you replace it.

tourist came thru here the blue puncture-resistant band of their Marathon Plus was showing thru.
they bought a new tire..

gerv 

I recall using a pair of Nashbar tire liners a few years ago and finding it actually caused more flats. Need to be careful where the liner over-laps... pinch flats. Not sure that would happen with a tube. But for myself I just buy the best tires I can.... a little more expensive, but cheapest solution in the long run.

staehpj1

I go the opposite way. I buy lightweight tubes often in a smaller than recommended size. They are lighter and easier to install. The weight savings is actually pretty substantial if you are touring and carrying spare tube as well. I run these thin tubes even in goat head territory. I have never found that thin tubes shortened the life of a well worn tire.

The one disadvantage to the thinner tubes is that they lose air a bit faster.

I like latex tubes even better, but am too cheap to buy them.

I have never used tire liners. I count on the tire itself for flat protection. I just buy a tire that has the minimal amount of protection I find acceptable for the roads I'll be riding (and therefore the highest performance tire). For me that will usually be gatorskins, but if I toured somewhere with no thorns and not too many other puncture hazards I'd go with a more race oriented tire.

In making tire and tube choices, I don't shoot for zero flats. I shoot for the highest performance tire that yields an acceptable number of flats.

seeker333

The consensus over on mtbr.com used to be that Mr. Tuffy tire liners actually caused more flats than they prevented. They were considered advantageous if your cycling was limited to goat-head-thorn-rich area in S CO, and NM. Otherwise leave them alone.

I think a single thick tube, thorn-resistant as fietsbob suggested, would be a better choice, if for no other reason than that it would be less difficult to mount than a tube+liner.

nubcake

I also have had tire liners cause a couple flats right where it over lapped, I would just replace the tire, you are going to have to do it anyways.

On my commuter I do run very thick tubes mostly because I am lazy when it comes to maintaining my commuter and they do not need inflated as often (2.3in volume helps there too) I run Big Apples and even with thin tubes a flat is extremely rare, the last one came from when my toddler managed to rip the valve stem out...

staehpj1

Thorn proof tubes are really heavy though. A regular tube in 700c32 might weigh 61g, a regular weight Mr Tuffy the same size 128g, and a thornproof tube that size 300g. So they are a pretty big weight penalty. For each wheel they weigh 239 grams more than a regular tube and 111 grams more than a regular tube and regular weight Mr Tuffy. Multiply that times 4 if you carry two spare tubes, so compared to regular tubes, 4 Thornproof tubes add 956g (over two pounds).

I have not used either because the weight and fuss has never seemed worth it. I can well imagine that there may be conditions where it would be, but I suspect that I'd be using tubless mountain bike tires if I lived and rode in those conditions regularly.

EDIT: Note that these weights are in error. Please see my correction below.

sstorkel

I think you're mistaken about the weight of a regular 700x32 tube. I buy tubes from Performance Bike, among others. They claim their ultra-light 700x19-26 tubes weigh in around 70g. Their standard 700x28-32mm tubes weigh 139g and 700x35-42 are 142g.

staehpj1

I had the Mr Tuffy and the tube weights switched. Sorry for the confusion. The Mr Tuffy is 61g and the regular tube 128g according to https://www.biketiresdirect.com/produ...ight-700c-tube

So to correct my error, 4 Thornproof 700x32 tubes weigh about 1200g. 4 regular tubes that size weigh about 512g. The difference is 688g or a bit over a 1.5 pounds. If you wanted to add the Mr Tuffys into the calculation they would only add 122g or about 4 ounces since you would only have two of them.

Of course they vary a good bit by brand and model.

Bottom line... My numbers were wrong, but there is still a real weight penalty for thorn proof tubes.

Tourist in MSN

I had some tire liners that I could not get to stay in the center of the 2.0 wide tire when I installed them, the wheels rolled a bit odd with the liners because the tires did not take their normal shape when aired up. Without the liners the wheels rolled just fine.

Then I had a slow leak, changed the tube and 100 miles later, another slow leak. I was unable to find the source of the problem, I think it must be a tiny thorn or something like that. I used one of the punctured tubes as a liner but I slit it down the middle so that the good tube essentially went inside the bad tube. That was last year, no problems since. I pulled that tire off and used a new tire on a 500 mile tour which I just got home from, I will be putting that tire with inner tube liner back on the bike in the near future.

But, I would not propose this as a solution if your tire is worn down to the cord, such a tire should have been replaced yesterday.

lancele

I'm a big advocate of tire liners. After a while though, the thick tire liners like Slime and Mr. Tuffy normally cuts into the tire along the liner's edges. Adjusting the liner occasionally helps alleviate the problem. My experience with tire liners protecting super-duper thin tires (e.g. Forte Lunar Light) have not been very good because the liners cut the tires fairly quickly. The super thin tires fared a bit better, but my suggestion is to use normal weight tubes with these liner types.

With that said, I no longer employ commercial tire liners, but instead utilize a double layer of Tyvek (from mailing envelopes). I really like this method because of good results, can use almost any tire, and doesn't affect tire handling much. I've used electric tape to align the liner before, but the electric tape's edge eventually cuts into super duper thin tires, but the super thin tires were fine for unloaded riding. For loaded touring, I'd probably use normal weight tubes. Now I just sit the Tyvek inside the tire without any tape or maybe just a piece of clear tape to connect each strap.

-Lance

dengidog

I´ve had just the opposite results with tire liners. I´ve put Mr. Tuffy Ultralites on two separate bikes (over 1000+ miles on each) with no problems. The roads here can be loaded with glass, thorns and all sorts of bits of metal, but not one single flat or slow leak.

Cyclebum

Thanks for the interest and answers to this tread. Been on a mini-tour since Monday, riding 150 miles with the inner tube liner, passing through several wire fields. No punctures and no tire distortion. Weight penalty noted. We'll see.

Will be on a 1000 mile tour in Sept. Will report on my puncture luck. I've done this distance and more before with no puncture and no liner, so it's not a huge issue, just a nagging one. I will have lost enough weight by then to more than off set the liner penalty.

djb

Pete, this has pretty much been my take on tubes and tires as well, but do readily admit to never haven ridden in thorn country.
I've used 70 g light tubes as well that fit perfectly well in my 28s , partly for weight saving but also for the reduction in physical size. I did this first when I toured in the Pyrénées and was really attentive to my total load weight and volume. The 70g ones cost more, but two of them take up the same space as one regular 28-32 tube at 130ish grams.

Your opinion on all this doesn't surprise me at all with your many posts of how you have been bringing your kit weight down over the years. I also agree with you on choosing tires et al with the view of being lightest for a given riding condition. In general I get very few flats per year, combination of me being light, where and how I ride, and keeping load weight down (although never to your levels)

staehpj1

On the thorn country thing... I have found that for the places I have toured, and a lot of them were in thorn country, that care with where you ride and even more where you pull off the road is a way bigger factor. Knowing what the plants look like and checking for thorns before riding off if you do pull off the pavement is key.

Some of this depends on how you value the various factors, like flat tolerance, weight tolerance, and the desire for a lively feeling ride. Me I'll take a flat here and there in exchange for a lighter livelier feeling ride. Fixing a flat once in a while on tour just isn't a huge deal. I could see worrying more about flats for a commuter bike, but on tour a 5 or 10 minute stop to fix a flat just isn't a big concern unless it happens pretty often.

djb

I would certainly need education on knowing what they look like, as I have no clue. I can see your point, relating it to how I ride scanning the road surface for glass as much as I can. Avoiding glass and stopping immediately to check my tires to brush off or pick out small bits of glass goes a long way in avoiding flats.
In all my years biking, my number of flats per year have stayed pretty much the same, so I have no urge to try liners etc as I too am ok with a flat or two per year.
David

staehpj1

It is pretty unremarkable looking and can be super small and close to the ground. Often there are just little bits of plants poking out of cracks in the pavement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribulus_terrestris

Cyclebum

A reasonable philosophy.

I seem to flat about once every 500 miles on average, nearly always from wires. Half of that distance is in NE Texas where I live, the other half on tour. I've had one flat from a thorn, one from a nail in my 7 year riding career. None from glass.

Adding 2 additional layers of rubber between the road and the tube does, I think, offer a practical benefit, aside from puncture resistance. Being able to ride the tire down to the nub with confidence will be cost effective, thump, thump, thumping to the nearest Walmart or home for a replacement when the casing finally gives way. With the used tires hanging in my garage, including two XR's, it'll be years before I'll need to buy another. Or experience another wire flat??? We'll see.

djb

Pete, unobstrusive looking plant isnt it, but then I guess you can say the same thing about Poison Ivy....
looked at some photos of the actual thorn, geez louise Im glad we dont have those around here.

cyclebum, funny but we dont seem to have car tire wire issues around here, or at least Ive never had a flat from a tiny piece of wire, only from bits of glass. I wonder if "tire wires" occur when people run their tires right down to completely worn out? As I said, Ive actually never even noticed bits of wire on the roads here in town, maybe Ive just not seen them, and been lucky, but I dont think there must be much of them given how I ride fairly regularly and have for years.
Good old "shark tooth" shaped small bits of glass aimed right at my tire tend to be it for me. Cant remember if I wrote this last summer when I bought a brand new set of regular Marathons, 2nd or 3rd day riding on them, must have ridden over a good 2 inch nail with the front tire and flipped it up into the air for it to perfectly skewer my new rear tire, like it was driven in with a hammer. Had to laugh, new tire and never had had that happen before. Made a neat hole and not a rip though, so didnt ruin the tire.

Cyclebum

Wires come from delaminated 18 wheeler tires that have been retreaded. You don't 'see' them. Too small. What you see is the hunks of wire ladden rubber shed from the tire. Pervasive on Texas highway shoulders.

I don't know what happens to the shed rubber. I've never seen it being picked up, yet it doesn't seem to pile up in the grass along the shoulder.

As irritating to ride on as Texas chip seal is, the rocky surface does keep the tiny wires from imbedding in your tire. Smooth surfaces are where you gotta be careful.

BTW, the inner tube liner will not stop a wire. I manually inserted one yesterday with ease, right thru the kevlar and the double rubber liner.

djb

Cyclebum, tks. Guess I don't ride on roads with lots of trucks or maybe retreads aren't used here as much...

Peruano

Back to the original query about using an old tube as a tire liner. I have a friend who ran a bare bones bike repair facility for folks who didn't have a lot of cash to keep up their bikes in goathead (thorn) country. He would cut out the valve stem, slit the tube down the middle to allow it to flatten out, and line the tire with the old tube as he inserted the new one. It was free, good protection, and always available.
+1 on avoiding goat heads as opposed to armoring your tubes and tires. Once you are in goat head country, pay close attention to all vegetation in the cracks of the road, and when you pull your bike off the road. When in doubt carry your bike across that median strip.
There used to be a web site for a bike shop in Socorro, NM that zoomed in from outer space to eventually focus on a goat head. Pretty neat - I'll see if I can find the link. Cheers, Tom

Peruano

Back to the original query about using an old tube as a tire liner. I have a friend who ran a bare bones bike repair facility for folks who didn't have a lot of cash to keep up their bikes in goathead (thorn) country. He would cut out the valve stem, slit the tube down the middle to allow it to flatten out, and line the tire with the old tube as he inserted the new one. It was free, good protection, and always available. And yes using a self sealing tube was recommended on top of that.
+1 on avoiding goat heads as opposed to armoring your tubes and tires. Once you are in goat head country, pay close attention to all vegetation in the cracks of the road, and when you pull your bike off the road. When in doubt carry your bike across that median strip.
There used to be a web site for a bike shop in Socorro, NM that zoomed in from outer space to eventually focus on a goat head. Pretty neat - I'll see if I can find the link.
https://www.sdc.org/fattire/goatheads.html
The site has changed a bit but the info is similar for those who need to know more about goatheads (scientific name of Tribulus). Cheers, Tom

djb

Tom, thanks, that was an interesting article and geez Louise they look persnickety, sure as heck glad we don't have em around here.

nashcommguy

My own answer to this particular issue is to use Schwalbe Marathon Plus 28mm tires coupled w/Forte Puncture Resistant tubes. 23-26mm. My emergency road tubes are 18-23mm for ease of inserting them. Then, when opportunity arises patch the original tube. It should be noted that puncture resistant tubes don't easily accept standard butyl patches. I light the patch glue on fire and smother the flame w/t patch until it adheres to the tube surface. Have only had to do it once, but it worked as the tube is still in my rear tire and still holding air.

Yes, there is a weight penalty for this combo, but one can always set up one's gearing to compensate for any addtional rolling resistance. I like to set out for a 55-60 mile leg w/full confidence I'm going to make the entire leg w/no tire issues, but that's just me.

Btw, when I first started cycle-commuting adding an old tube was one of the first 'tricks' a more experienced cyclist told me about. And yes, it will add more mileage to your tire.