George Mann

I have long pondered over which type of gearset would work best for me given my riding style.

I am a casual rider/commuter these days as I am old, and have issues with my head and groin. I am currently riding a batteryless Raleigh 7-speed (derailer) ebike as a regular bicycle (which it is without e-assist).

I am a fan of the 3-speed Sturmey Archer IGH as fitted to vintage Raleighs, but also have my eye on a Shimano 8-speed version which would be easier on my groin.

I greatly prefer an IGH (nostalgia?), but do I have a compelling reason to stay with a cassette/derailer setup?

What do you'all prefer and why?

Broctoon

I think for your riding style, an IGH is ideal. The 8 speed will give you both a wider overall range and smaller steps between gears (compared to the 3 speed). An advantage of derailleurs is that they tend to be lighter, but it doesn't sound like that's a big concern for you. (Is the Raleigh not really heavy, even without its battery?)

I have a bike with a SA 3 speed IGH, and I've previously owned an Shimano Nexus 8 speed. I like these systems for bikes that are ridden casually. Not that you can't take them on longer rides, and even up steep hills, just that their character seems better suited to relaxed as opposed to performance oriented rides. Shimano's Alfine line is a little nicer, but Nexus is not bad. Cost of retrofitting can be an obstacle. I built a rear wheel myself, with a bare SA hub and rim of my choice, then bought the shifter and figured out how to route the cable, set up the hub in the frame, etc. With the SA, you use special washers to keep the axle from rotating, and this requires a frame with slotted dropouts--not round ones. Come to think of it, Shimano is probably the same way. A through-axle frame will not work. You also have to pay attention to the dropout spacing, sometimes called OLD. One thing I would NOT recommend is the roller brake that Shimano offers as one option on some of their Nexus hubs. I do not like it, because it is very heavy, it does not give great braking performance, and it adds extra complexity to the system.

Read up on IGHs at Sheldon Brown's website. He gives lots of great info.

Iride01 

IGH will probably be the most trouble free. The only cons might be a little more weight and that they don't have the range of high to low ratios that a derailleur system has. Though it's been a while since I've looked. Maybe they've solved that.

If you are in a hilly area, get more than just a 3 speed. Even though that might be enough, you'll likely be glad to have more choice of gearing to keep your cadence steady.

If instead of casual or steady and short commuter rides you find yourself becoming a adrenaline junky and imagining yourself a world tour rider in the TdF, then you might want to get a derailleur equipped bike like the rest of us have. But you can do that later. Nothing wrong with having two or more bikes that serve different purpose or even the same purpose.

George Mann

50lbs without the battery, which is in line with the vintage Raleighs that this bike is a tribute to.




I have been, thanks.

George Mann

There are few grades in the Denver neighborhood (Baker) that I currently live and ride in.

Iride01 

I've ridden the bike path on the south side of Denver around Centennial and the other cities nearby. Really nice riding there. If you get a bike with a IGH and you can't get a low enough gear ratio as it came from the store, then you can always put a smaller chain ring on it and get up most any grade. Only downside is that on the downside of that hill, you might spin out sooner and just have to coast down the hill. But many do that anyway since they spent all their energy trying to climb the grade and didn't save any energy for the other side.

Though wait till some of the IGH experts and users chime in. I haven't had a IGH since the 70's. But I've always seen them as less trouble over all. Especially for someone that isn't a avid DIYer with experience on bike mechanics. Though if you have the budget to go up to the prices of bikes with electronic shifting for the derailleurs, they are pretty maintenance free. I've done almost nothing to mine for the last three years.

And if you are considering e-bikes, then hills probably won't be an issue. But don't cheap out on the e-bike. The added power/torque of the motor has caused some issues of wear and tear on drive train parts that weren't made expressly with the intention of being used on a e-bike. Even though that electric motor might seem to do fine in a high gear going up the steep grades, do it a favor and shift to a lower gear ratio and keep a more normal cadence of 65 - 85 RPM.

Broctoon

That looks like a comfortable bike.

Does the derailleur system not work to your liking? On paper, switching out the drivetrain is probably a losing proposition. You'll spend considerable money, perhaps add weight to the bike, and likely end up with less overall gear range. Maybe not the case if you get an 8 speed, since you already have a 1x system. If you just like IGHs (as I do), that's valid.

I can't tell if your right brake lever is integrated with the shifter. If so, I would remove the old levers and switch to some stand-alones. This is not hard to do nor very expensive, but every little bit counts. Figure at least $120 or so for a hub and shifter if you get a SA 3 speed. 8 speed is more. Probably 40 bucks for spokes, unless you get lucky and the new hub's flanges are the same size as your old one (very unlikely). If you're not up to the task of rebuilding the wheel yourself, you'll have to pay for some skilled labor. Really soon, the total comes to as much as the bike itself is worth (except in your case, as an ebike is obviously more expensive).

They can be very nice, reliable systems, as I'm sure you know from memories of the old ones. For decades, there were many millions of 3 speed IGH bikes sold all over the world, to people who generally did not know much about machines or have any interest in doing maintenance on them. You'll read about the modern SA hubs having some quality control issues and not being manufactured to the same standards as the original English company. The one I got has been just fine; I have no complaints.

I'll try to remember to take a picture of it tonight and post it for you.

Joe Bikerider

I have been derailleur free for my last two bikes both with Shimano 8 speed hubs. and I think they are great. I first started with a Biria Easy Boarding model that I got along with well. The aluminum frame made it lighter than others but eventually the chain cut through the aluminum down tube and the frame just fell apart. The low step over height was great while it lasted. My current Linus is all steel and also runs well but is quite a bit heavier and more difficult to mount/dismount. I have a couple derailleur bikes parked in the garage but doubt they will get used again. The IGH hub feels fast and smooth so why would I get rid of it?

rudypyatt

Both my bikes (a single speed drop bar conversion and a Linus Gaston 3) have modern Sturmey-Archer SRF-3 three speed hubs. Absolutely reliable, and (with their aluminum hub shells) no heavier than a derailleur setup.

I find the stock gearing to be fine. It’s the traditional 46x18 yielding roughly 52/69/93 gear inches low to high. This is fine even for short, sharp hills, but getting lower overall gearing is as easy as changing the rear cog to something larger, say 20 or 22 teeth.

You will hear some talk of an IGH being “inefficient “ compared to a derailleur. Frankly that’s overstated. In use, the difference is essentially nonexistent. Even under laboratory conditions, the basic Sturmey three speed is one of the most efficient drivetrains there is.

For what it’s worth, some of the IGH experts on this board speak highly of the current Sturmey 8 speed. It steps up from first gear direct drive and gives you a wide range of gearing. Since it’s a step up hub, it takes a smaller chainring, 34 teeth or less, with something like a 22 tooth cog. This hub is highly rated for its efficient, low drag operation, and it offers range comparable to derailleur setups.

Unless you absolutely need granular control over your cadence, derailleur drive trains offer no advantage for the use you have stated. You’re not racing, and you’re not climbing alpine peaks. An IGH, even a classic three speed, will serve you well.

George Mann

It works fine, even though it needs a bit of adjustment. I keep it in the 4th gear most of the time.

George Mann

I am craving a vintage Raleigh.

adlai

So i thought for a long while that igh was interesting. I am less interested in them now.

the ability to shift at a stop isn’t a big deal. More of a problem is being unable to shift under load.

the big issue for me is cable alignment. As in if the cable is not aligned correctly, then you can actually damage the igh hub and even fall through a pedal stroke.

with derailleur if the cable isn’t aligned correctly at worst you get skipping between gears. The igh hubs that I like inherently don’t have this problem. They would be the nuvinci cvt and the sram automatix hubs. But for like an 8 speed igh hub I do worry about that.

Broctoon

This is my 3 speed. It came from Japan in about the early 80s with a 2x6 drivetrain. I bought it five years ago for the frame, for $25. I’ve replaced almost everything on it. The only original parts remaining are the frame and fork, headset, stem, and seat post. I got rid of the steel 27” wheels in favor of 700c alloy, for better braking and tire selection. This necessitated getting some long reach calipers, and as an added benefit I got enough space for 32mm tires and fenders.




Here is the hub, shift cable, and the tiny chain going to the indicator rod, shown with the plastic cover removed. Some of the modern Sturmey Archers use a rotary shifter (as Shimano does), and I think they’re better. The indicator rod setup is kind of fussy. It’s one thing that I don’t love about the system.




You can’t really see it here, but the shifter has two thumb levers both under the bar (for up shifts and down shifts). It is very reliable.

tFUnK

I considered an IGH commuter some years ago but decided against it due to lack of knowledge and experience in changing a rear flat. Something about removing a heavier wheel and then making sure the shift cable mechanism is reconnected properly.

I'm sure it's not an issue in real life, and something one easily learns through repetition, but that thought, along with the heavier weight, got my finger off the trigger on that purchase. Would be open to trying an IGH bike at some point, though.

Broctoon

This absolutely can be an issue. On my bike pictured above, removing the rear wheel is a chore. This is partly because of the hub and its shift cable, and partly because of the fender. I would not recommend a system like this for someone who is a beginner at bike maintenance and intends to do his or her own repairs. Fortunately, with the tires and tubes I have on it now, flats are almost unheard of. Now that everything is set up and adjusted correctly, it requires very little attention. If I were to lend the bike to a friend or son-in-law, I would instruct: "In the unlikely event you get a flat rear tire, please call me. I'll come and pick you up and then fix it. You don't want to tackle it yourself."

With ​​​​​​my Trek Soho Deluxe, rear wheel removal/installation was kind of a nightmare. It had a Nexus 8 speed hub, roller brake, Gates belt drive, rack, and fender. All these features are pretty nice in use (except the brake; it was horrible), but from a maintenance standpoint, you could not design a worse system if you tried.

George Mann

I have modified the bike by removing the battery carrier and upper rack.




I will continue to use it as a conventional bike for the foreseeable future.

rudypyatt

I highly recommend popping over to the Classic & Vintage sub forum and checking out the long running thread on English three speeds; a wealth of information, inspiration, and encouragement there.

GamblerGORD53

Totally useless trying to change that bike.
I ride my finicky SA XL-RD5w a 100/ 120 miles anytime I feel like it. Same with my 3 speed. Both are 40+ lbs unloaded.

George Mann

Well, the built-in motor makes it a hybrid bike regardless of what I wish it could be, so I can only take it so far.

Modifying things is a twisted hobby of mine.