clengman

I've started thinking about this after reading the thread in the general forum: https://www.bikeforums.net/general-c...azy-folks.html

I've been using Shimano SIS 7 speed shifters on the down tube, using them in friction mode. I have no problem with non-indexed shifting. The only thing I don't like is the ghost shifting. I'm going to be making some changes to my commuter (and hopefully some day loaded touring) bike the next time I get a chunk of change to play with and I'm starting to window shop and think about what parts I want to buy.

I'd like to switch from my downtube shifters to bar-ends. I'm intrigued by the Sun Tour ratcheting shifters that were mentioned several times in the thread linked to above. Are there different types of Sun Tour bar end shifters? Would any pair of Sun Tours I find have the ratcheting mechanism, or are there specific models to look for? If there are specific models, how can they be identified? Are there any currently-manufactured shifters available new that have a similar mechanism? Thanks!

Bike Gremlin

Changing shifters won't solve ghost shifting all of itself. Unless the shifters can't resist derailleur spring force and start moving all on their own. Some insigth by Sheldon Brown:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/autoshift.html

clengman

I came across that article shortly after I first bought the bike and had this issue. I do have a very flexy, very old steel touring bike, and I'm on the cusp of clyde territory, so I'm sure Sheldon's description of what's happening is accurate. I have tried cleaning and lubing the cable guide and it maybe helps a little bit for a couple weeks after I do it, but it never goes away entirely. I forgot the part about installing a pulley in place of the cable guide. Maybe that's worth trying.

From what I've read the ratcheting mechanism in the Sun Tour Bar Cons helps quite a bit. Not having tried them myself I can't say whether or not it would be a solution in my particular situation.

oldtrekguy

I would check the adjustment on shifter to make sure you have it tight enough. It is easy to get ghost shifts if it is set too loose.

I think Suntour has been out of business for many years, so you would be looking for used or NOS.

I have a set of Shimano Dura Ace nine-speed bar-end shifters that are beautifully made. I believe the ten-speed version is index-only.

desconhecido 

The Sun Tour bar end shifters are pretty distinctive. Just go to Ebay and search for them and you'll see. It's my belief that the bar end shifters were Sun Tour Power Shifters adapted to the bar end housing. Work very well, just like the ubiquitious Sun Tour stem shifters, only better.

Dia Compe bar end shifters with similar function (so they say) are available new. The Sun Tour levers may be more compact, don't know as I've never actually touched one of the new Dia Compe. You can find these at Velo Orange for $85 and thy are happy to tell you how great they are.

Shimano SL-BS64 8 speed shifters are readily available for $50 or so. They will also function in friction mode. I have a couple sets of these and I like them though I've not tried friction. My experience with Shimano indexed shifting used in friction mode (and I have a bike setup that way) is pretty good, so I expect the bar end shifters would work pretty well in frictiion, too.

If you are having ghost shift issues, have you tried tightening the right side M5 bolt just a tad? I've not had issues with my 6 speed SIS shifting a 7 speed FW in friction mode, maybe I'm just lucky.

I have test fit other Shimano DT shifters to the SL-BS64 pods and they seem to work though I've not actually put them on a bike that way. There may be issues with the size of the cable drum, don't know.

There are some bar end pods for sale on Ebay that would allow you, I believe, to mount your Shimano DT shifters. Have never actually seen one of these.

Rivendell sells some sort of Shimano pods that you might be able to mount your DT shifters to. Never actually seen these either.

Note on the new Shimano bar ends: some ads for these say Dura Ace, others Ultegra for the same model number. The ones I have have little labels on them that say they won't work indexed with Dura Ace so I think BS64 shifters advertised for DA are probably not for DA at all.

clengman

Thanks for the tips.

I'm going round and round now between getting the mounting pods from Rivendell and using the shifters I already have (I have a 7 speed cassette now so if I get a new rear derailleur I could use it indexed), the Dia Compe Shifters from Velo-Orange, and a pair of used Sun Tours if I can find them for a decent price. Seems like I'd have to be a little lucky to get good, used, Sun Tours for less than the price of the new Dia Compes so I'm thinking the used Sun Tours are lowest on the list.

The friction screw was already pretty tight, but I just cranked it down as much as seemed reasonable. I'll see how it goes on my ride home.

desconhecido 

Probably, you won't need a new derailleur to go from Shimano 6-speed to 7-speed, unless it's a Dura Ace derailleur. It may not be true with the latest, but older Shimano derailleurs (except DA) all shifted with the same cable pull to lateral distance function. All the difference in 6,7, and 8 speed, and maybe 9 and 10 too, was in the shifters.

clengman

I still have the Crane GS RD that came on the bike. I don't think it'll index.

rosefarts

I've had Shimano 8 speed bar end shifter and microshift 10sp. Both shift fine. I've only used them in index mode.

Sometimes the screw loosens and you need to tighten it up. Blue loctite helps.

Microshift come in 10sp for road or mountain derailleur so no need for funny stuff. Buy the one that suits your set up. They have a friction mode. I think you'd need a 4mm allen to switch modes. I carry the most minimal tool kit and even I have that.

clengman

For the SIS 7 speed all you need is the tools God gave ya. There's a d ring built in so you can turn it with your little fingies.

rosefarts

Explain, in vivid detail, how to turn a D-ring with your trouser snake. Go slowly.






Sorry, couldn't resist.

clengman

I think that's the key.

JohnDThompson 

SunTour made two distinct Bar-con models: the original, ratcheted "Power Shift" model, and the later, indexed "Accu-shift" model. The Accu-shift model did offer a friction mode, but it was not ratcheted:

HTupolev

Yes, but the ones that people are usually referring to when they talk about SunTour bar-end shifters are the classic LD-1400 barcon, manufactured from the early 1970s to the mid 1980s. ​​​​​​


You need to be careful with Accushift shifters. The alternate setting is frequently not a real friction mode at all, but instead a horrible "soft index" mode that just applies a friction plate to the indexed shifting.

Accushift front shifters are always friction, of course.

clengman

John and Tupolev - Thanks. That helps a lot!

fietsbob

I have been using the same sun tour friction-ratchet shifters, ever since the 80's..