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Discomfort on 1st longer Drop bar bike ride

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Discomfort on 1st longer Drop bar bike ride

Old 03-18-18, 02:32 PM
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Derekve
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Discomfort on 1st longer Drop bar bike ride

I recently got a 2018 Jamis Renegade Expat and had a professional fitting done. Stem & seat adjusted, etc. I just got back from a 12 mile ride (only had a few 2-3 mile rides prior with no discomfort) and noticed during the last few miles that I had significant discomfort in my upper/ mid trap area along with my wrists. My triceps were working harder than normal too. Good news was all discomfort was gone right when I got off my bike.

With all that said this is my 1st drop bar bike and longer ride on one. I've only owned/rode flat bar bikes prior. I plan on going on similar rides again each weekend. Is my discomfort mostly due to not being on a drop bar bike before? Does my body need to adjust and get conditioned to riding drop bar? Has anyone experienced this on their 1st ride?

I suppose I will also get a better idea (with more rides) if I need to adjust or if my bike needs more adjusting.

Would appreciate any input!
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Old 03-18-18, 02:37 PM
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remote blind guessing, a forum specialty ...

if you have isolated it to a trapezius muscle group , you can have the gym workout program strengthen it,
ask the folks at the club, training staff..
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Old 03-18-18, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
remote blind guessing, a forum specialty ...

if you have isolated it to a trapezius muscle group , you can have the gym workout program strengthen it,
ask the folks at the club, training staff..
Yea, my best guess right now is that I need to strengthen those muscles.
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Old 03-18-18, 03:12 PM
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'Professional Fitting Sessions' may be more Racer performance focused , than for JRA enjoying the ride cyclists..
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Old 03-19-18, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Derekve
Yea, my best guess right now is that I need to strengthen those muscles.
That is my guess too. I used to get some neck discomfort during early season. After doing a series of neck strengthening exercises every morning for a while, the neck problem disappeared. I also have some knee discomfort from time to time and when I do, knee exercises are stepped up and that goes away also.
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Old 03-19-18, 05:11 PM
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And ride more, gradually. Keep track of your weekly miles and increase them by 10%/week until you run out of time of get too tired, then back it off a little.
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Old 03-20-18, 06:32 PM
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Thank you everyone above with your input. I plan on working out more, especially my upper body. I will slowly increase my ride distance too. I spoke with my bike fitter and she thinks I should try a 100mm 25 degree stem instead of a 90mm 6 degree one as well.
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Old 03-20-18, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Derekve
Thank you everyone above with your input. I plan on working out more, especially my upper body. I will slowly increase my ride distance too. I spoke with my bike fitter and she thinks I should try a 100mm 25 degree stem instead of a 90mm 6 degree one as well.
That is pretty meaningless without photos of the actual bike.

Are you angling the stem up or down?

The longer stem, but greater angle will likely put the distance to the steering axis similar, but raise the bars somewhat.

I wouldn't make any significant changes after your first ride. What is a long ride anyway? 100 miles in an afternoon? Oh... 12 miles??? Well, plan to do a few 100 mile rides before switching up the bike too much.

It sounds like some of your pain is simply muscular pain, and you'll get used to the new bike. Also practice holding onto the bars in a few different ways.
  • Hoods.
  • Tops of bars
  • Bottom of drops.
  • Forward on drops.
  • Hanging onto the tops of the hoods with forearms across the tops of the bars.
  • Standing, and holding wherever.
You may choose different positions depending on wind, speed, or fatigue. However, it isn't a bad idea to just move the hands around a bit.
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Old 03-20-18, 07:53 PM
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After my first couple of rides with drop bars, my whole upper body felt like someone went after me with a sock with an orange in the end of it. My neck was sore for the first couple of months, almost every day. It takes the body time to adapt.
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Old 03-20-18, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
That is pretty meaningless without photos of the actual bike.

Are you angling the stem up or down?

The longer stem, but greater angle will likely put the distance to the steering axis similar, but raise the bars somewhat.

I wouldn't make any significant changes after your first ride. What is a long ride anyway? 100 miles in an afternoon? Oh... 12 miles??? Well, plan to do a few 100 mile rides before switching up the bike too much.

It sounds like some of your pain is simply muscular pain, and you'll get used to the new bike. Also practice holding onto the bars in a few different ways.
  • Hoods.
  • Tops of bars
  • Bottom of drops.
  • Forward on drops.
  • Hanging onto the tops of the hoods with forearms across the tops of the bars.
  • Standing, and holding wherever.
You may choose different positions depending on wind, speed, or fatigue. However, it isn't a bad idea to just move the hands around a bit.
I've ridden my new bike every day since my initial post, adding miles to each ride. 12, 16, 20 miles might not be long to you, but for me, with work and family, I don't have the time right now to ride 50 or 100 mile rides, so I hope that wasn't a snide remark...

I still have similar discomfort. I place my hands in different positions while riding and shake arms regularly. I know I need to strengthen my muscles as stated above and just simply get use to this new position. I'm in physically very good shape. I'm 6'3" 195#. I already work out regularly, but need to focus more on upper traps and triceps.

My stem will be angled up and I did use a stem tool calculator to measure the differences. It will move the height up 32mm and back 9mm. I will keep my other stem in case I want to change back. My bike fitter believes we can slowly work my way back down. I actually plan on gravel riding & bikepacking in the future, not racing, therefore I don't need a aggressive riding position though. I appreciate your input.

Last edited by Derekve; 03-20-18 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 03-20-18, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope
After my first couple of rides with drop bars, my whole upper body felt like someone went after me with a sock with an orange in the end of it. My neck was sore for the first couple of months, almost every day. It takes the body time to adapt.
Yea, I completely understand the feeling. Other than the one stem change I plan on doing here soon, I just need to strengthen and adapt.
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Old 03-22-18, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Derekve
I've ridden my new bike every day since my initial post, adding miles to each ride. 12, 16, 20 miles might not be long to you, but for me, with work and family, I don't have the time right now to ride 50 or 100 mile rides, so I hope that wasn't a snide remark...
Both serious, and realizing that everyone is different.

I believe there is an amount of "breaking in" to get comfortable with a new ride position. And one way to do so is to get a few good hours on the bike, and push yourself well outside of your comfort zone.

Of course, push yourself, but don't injure yourself.

After 30 years of riding the same bike, with the handlebars set at about seat level (as was common for bikes a couple of decades past), I decided to shake it up a couple of years ago. I set up a bike with about 6" of saddle to bar drop. WHEW!!! However, after a couple of pretty sore rides, the old back started getting better, now to the point where I can jump between bikes just fine.

Each of my primary bikes are different, with different configurations, drop, etc.

And, at least 5 different bikes have done century rides in recent years, under my power.

Your idea of incremental changes is reasonable, but may not be necessary.

Last edited by CliffordK; 03-22-18 at 01:13 AM.
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Old 03-22-18, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Derekve
I still have similar discomfort. I place my hands in different positions while riding and shake arms regularly. I know I need to strengthen my muscles as stated above and just simply get use to this new position. I'm in physically very good shape. I'm 6'3" 195#. I already work out regularly, but need to focus more on upper traps and triceps.

My stem will be angled up and I did use a stem tool calculator to measure the differences. It will move the height up 32mm and back 9mm. I will keep my other stem in case I want to change back. My bike fitter believes we can slowly work my way back down. I actually plan on gravel riding & bikepacking in the future, not racing, therefore I don't need a aggressive riding position though. I appreciate your input.
EDIT: since you are of a normal weight and work out regularly, I trust that you know how to draw the line between exertion and discomfort, which is a blurry line that only you can draw. So I'm going to assume that the discomfort you feel is something you have deemed "not normal", especially considering the relatively short amount of time you spend in the drops.

I think your bike fitter is going in a good direction. There is no such thing as a "best" position, only optimal for certain situations subject to constraints. Conventional bike wisdom states that while mashing hard in the drops, you should barely need to support any weight with your arms. Inversely, if you are *not* mashing hard in the drops (ie you are a beginner), your arms would have to support more weight. This weight has to go *somewhere*. Saddle fore-aft position allows you to determine what the distribution of your upper body weight is between your arms and your butt. The further forward you are, the more weight you have on your arms (think TT or tri bikes, which have elbow pads). The further back you are, the more weight you have on your seat (think MTB riders, who sometimes need to take all weight off their front wheel). You can also dynamically adjust this weight distribution by bending (getting into the drops vs hoods or tops). Using a combination of these, you need to figure out a saddle position and bar position that works best given the distance, terrain, and speed you are riding. Since you are riding small distances, I will assume you are a beginner who doesn't put down monster torque. This would mean you should set the saddle back (*very* slightly) more than you would if you were super strong. Your dynamic range of weighting should also not be between "aggressive" on the hoods and "really freaking aggressive" in the drops like you see for pros. Instead, you should be more like "chill" on the hoods and "kinda aggressive" in the drops.

One benchmark you can use to see if you are in a relatively aggressive position is the Knee Over Pedal Spindle (KOPS) method. It is by no means a hard and fast rule, but try and see (perhaps using a weight on a string) where the bottom of your kneecap lies relative to your pedal spindle when in the "power" 3 o clock position. Depending on your proportions, road bikers like to keep it behind the pedal spindle by about 1 or 2 cm. If you're climbing a lot you may want to be *slightly* forward so that your relative position to the bottom bracket is efficient when climbing, though this would put more weight on your arms when riding flat roads. If you as a beginner are exactly at KOPS or even in front, I would be suspicious of the fit. You may feel that your quads have to do much more work than your hamstrings or glutes.

As you get stronger, you will put down more torque and need more weight on the pedals to counter that torque. This is where a more aggressive position comes in handy. This isn't any information that is specific to you, but it's information that I've personally found useful in my journey as a beginner.

Last edited by smashndash; 03-22-18 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 03-22-18, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
Both serious, and realizing that everyone is different.

I believe there is an amount of "breaking in" to get comfortable with a new ride position. And one way to do so is to get a few good hours on the bike, and push yourself well outside of your comfort zone.

Of course, push yourself, but don't injure yourself.

After 30 years of riding the same bike, with the handlebars set at about seat level (as was common for bikes a couple of decades past), I decided to shake it up a couple of years ago. I set up a bike with about 6" of saddle to bar drop. WHEW!!! However, after a couple of pretty sore rides, the old back started getting better, now to the point where I can jump between bikes just fine.

Each of my primary bikes are different, with different configurations, drop, etc.

And, at least 5 different bikes have done century rides in recent years, under my power.

Your idea of incremental changes is reasonable, but may not be necessary.
Originally Posted by smashndash
EDIT: since you are of a normal weight and work out regularly, I trust that you know how to draw the line between exertion and discomfort, which is a blurry line that only you can draw. So I'm going to assume that the discomfort you feel is something you have deemed "not normal", especially considering the relatively short amount of time you spend in the drops.

I think your bike fitter is going in a good direction. There is no such thing as a "best" position, only optimal for certain situations subject to constraints. Conventional bike wisdom states that while mashing hard in the drops, you should barely need to support any weight with your arms. Inversely, if you are *not* mashing hard in the drops (ie you are a beginner), your arms would have to support more weight. This weight has to go *somewhere*. Saddle fore-aft position allows you to determine what the distribution of your upper body weight is between your arms and your butt. The further forward you are, the more weight you have on your arms (think TT or tri bikes, which have elbow pads). The further back you are, the more weight you have on your seat (think MTB riders, who sometimes need to take all weight off their front wheel). You can also dynamically adjust this weight distribution by bending (getting into the drops vs hoods or tops). Using a combination of these, you need to figure out a saddle position and bar position that works best given the distance, terrain, and speed you are riding. Since you are riding small distances, I will assume you are a beginner who doesn't put down monster torque. This would mean you should set the saddle back (*very* slightly) more than you would if you were super strong. Your dynamic range of weighting should also not be between "aggressive" on the hoods and "really freaking aggressive" in the drops like you see for pros. Instead, you should be more like "chill" on the hoods and "kinda aggressive" in the drops.

One benchmark you can use to see if you are in a relatively aggressive position is the Knee Over Pedal Spindle (KOPS) method. It is by no means a hard and fast rule, but try and see (perhaps using a weight on a string) where the bottom of your kneecap lies relative to your pedal spindle when in the "power" 3 o clock position. Depending on your proportions, road bikers like to keep it behind the pedal spindle by about 1 or 2 cm. If you're climbing a lot you may want to be *slightly* forward so that your relative position to the bottom bracket is efficient when climbing, though this would put more weight on your arms when riding flat roads. If you as a beginner are exactly at KOPS or even in front, I would be suspicious of the fit. You may feel that your quads have to do much more work than your hamstrings or glutes.

As you get stronger, you will put down more torque and need more weight on the pedals to counter that torque. This is where a more aggressive position comes in handy. This isn't any information that is specific to you, but it's information that I've personally found useful in my journey as a beginner.

Thank you both for your input, I appreciate it! I do realize there will be discomfort I will need to get use to, but now I know I was fit "too aggressively" from the get go. The discomfort or pain I've been experiencing is far beyond just "getting use to". Yes, I am a beginner to drop bars but not biking riding. I am 34 years old and haven't stopped riding since I was a kid haha. If I had to classify what type of rider I am, it would be a Mountain biker I suppose. I grew up around dirt roads, fire roads, and trails so I've mainly been on a hardtail MTB. I've ridden those bikes on so many 50-80 mile rides in my time, so I am not new to long rides. My Sirrus is the first hybrid and non MTB I've owned. Not a hard adjustment. Taken it on a few 30 mile rides last year along with a 60 mile one last fall. I bought the Expat with the intent to ride gravel, dirt, and bikepack. I also wanted something of an endurance road bike with drop bars. I like versatility.


Here is a stem sizing question. My current stem is a 90mm 6+degree. As mentioned in a post above, a 100mm +25 degree would raise the height 31mm and bring the lessen the reach by 9mm. Would a smaller jump to a 90mm +15 degree stem (7mm back, 12mm higher) make more sense? Is 31mm considered a "big" adjustment in the bike geometry world? I am new when it comes to understanding bike geometry
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Old 03-22-18, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Derekve
Here is a stem sizing question. My current stem is a 90mm 6+degree. As mentioned in a post above, a 100mm +25 degree would raise the height 31mm and bring the lessen the reach by 9mm. Would a smaller jump to a 90mm +15 degree stem (7mm back, 12mm higher) make more sense? Is 31mm considered a "big" adjustment in the bike geometry world? I am new when it comes to understanding bike geometry
A 31mm increase in height is more than what my bike would allow for purely using spacers in total (25mm in spacer stack height). I dropped my stem 5mm to get more aggressive and it made a pretty noticeable difference across the board (in terms of arm stress, back stress but thankfully torque as well). It's really difficult to make this call from the internet, but I would personally go with the less drastic change. Assuming that you're in good shape, and this bike is the right size for you, it shouldn't take a crazy adjustment to go from "pretty uncomfortable" to "I can manage this for now". You're bound to get stronger if you keep ramping up your rides.

I'd take a hard look at saddle position before making an adjustment as drastic as a 31mm increase in height, if for no other reason than the fact that you're deviating significantly from the position the manufacturer intended. Since you're a pretty strong rider already, I'm inclined to believe the stem may not be the issue. But I'm also a noob to biking, so I'd still err towards what the fitter says.
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