mams99

I use the modern version of that, but yes. I use a Gibby bag from Swift Industries on one bike and the Po Campo Willis Stem bag on another.

Brett A

It so depends on what you're doing. I've spent a few months riding around the U.S. desert southwest in 100+ degree temps and it would be difficult to carry enough water with a bike packing setup. Some days, I set out with 12-14 liters of water. A four-pannier setup allows plenty of room for water as well as easy access to gear thought the day. I never have a stack across the back, just four bags and handlebar bag.

This was during a stop in the shade of the Amargosa Opera house in Death Valley Junction Sept 2019.

roadfix

Standover height for short people.

schnee

If you're tall enough, you can have both!
I dig this setup, because there's a bunch of stuff - mainly bike tools, spare parts / tubes, pump, first aid kit, etc. - that I can just leave on the bike.
It makes unpacking & packing significantly easier, and puts a bunch of the heaviest stuff right between the wheels, so it's stable.

This picture's old, so since it was taken (7 years ago) I've gotten a custom fork with anything cage mounts so I can throw two more water bottles on the fork if I want.

roadfix

Hmm…I personally find it a bit easier to access fork mounted water bottles compared to down tube or seat tube mounted bottles. Almost as easy as bar mounted water bottles. If you think about it, you’re extending your arm as much as trying to reach your down tube mounted bottle.
Btw, your fingers will come nowhere near the spokes so there’s no danger there.

scher

With a frame bag you have versatility to carry anything you like - including bottles. Look at all the wasted space around the bottles and cages. You could stuff clothing and snacks and other stuff in there if you needed to. With the cages you don't have that option.

dualresponse

Buy a sewing machine. Do both!

dualresponse

Cardboard mockup-

Throwing stuff in mockup to get an idea of what could fit:


S


Sewing things up
I did this as a joke, since there wasn't a lot of space in the frame. It was a project "just to see if I could do it" Ended up working- and a super cool place to store extras! I can still get to the water bottles easy and if gives a lot of flexibility to the setup. All bike tools go in the frame bag, so the seatpost mast bag is total clothes/ etc. I thought it would but a dud, but, I love it!

PromptCritical 

Camelbak makes a frame bag that holds 2L of water, which I find very convenient for longer training rides.

https://www.camelbak.com/shop/packs/...or=Wolf%20Grey

Russ Roth

For me this was a big part of it. My frame bag holds my tent, air mattress, sleeping bag, and bag liner, that's a lot of bulk in an out of the way place. With clothing in the seat pack and cooking in the handlebar bag it makes for a good layout and easy to find things.

PromptCritical 

That’s very cool!

Duragrouch

For water bottles, I have the worst of both worlds: A monobeam frame where the bottle cage bolts are only slightly above horizontal, so the bottle may leak, and got hit often getting on and off the bike so bent, so I took it off, and got a drink bottle for already-mounted clip-on aero bars. But neither can I mount a frame bag.

Earlier comments on bikepacking vs panniers: I knew bikepacking cut a narrower profile off-road. Bicycling quarterly, even on-road, is very much into the handlebar bag only for randonneuring, and if needed, front panniers, they say this is more aerodynamic than rear panniers. But others have noted above that bikepacking setup results in a much higher center of gravity. My bike not only has front and rear panniers with inherently lower CG, but especially so on 20" wheels, I have fantastic lateral leverage on that weight, can carry heavy loads with plenty of stability, even on slow climbs while standing, and no heavy steering.

Duragrouch

I'm astonished you can fit all that in just a frame bag, even on a big frame, without it bulging sideways enough to hit your knees.

skye

I am old, and I confess I just don't get it. Panniers are so easy to use, and my loaded up bike isn't top heavy and doesn't handle all squirelly. What's the advantage?

Tourist in MSN

Not sure why you would have trouble with a bottle cage above the main tube. That low, it should be completely out of the way at all times. But if it was getting bent, you could use a more robust plastic cage.

On my folder I used one of the Two Fish brand bottle cages that is attached with velcro to wrap around my seat tube extension. I think they call it a quick cage. Velcro so it can be removed quickly for folding. Thus, using one liter sized bottles, I had two liters on the frame.

These are the one liter sized Smart Water bottles, they are the correct diameter for a bottle cage. Life WTR (or in Canada, Life Water) is another brand that makes one liter size bottles that fit in cages well. These bottles do not leak.



On the upright bottle, have an elastic hair band attached to the seat tube extension with velcro to hold the top of the bottle in place so it does not get knocked out of the cage, since the cage is not as firmly attached as the bolted on cages. I also had a bit of adhesive backed weather stripping on the frame tube below the cage and bottle. I tried another bottle behind the seat tube extension, but decided instead to store my spare tube in a small bag there as a third bottle was not really needed when I had a large saddle bag.

Duragrouch

(above) I never remembered hitting the bottle cage with my feet when mounting or dismounting, but I noticed the rack bent and cracked one day, so I must have. I'm currently biking in heavy hiking boots as my feet got too big for my sneakers, so that also contributes to not feeling if I hit the bottle. Better location for the cage bosses would be on the underside of the monobeam, but perhaps they didn't put there as that side of the beam is loaded in tension so more fatigue sensitive. Anyway, it's just not a big deal as that low bottle was a pain to reach when cycling, and the Profile drink bottle is a dream, easy to sip from. Additional water I just keep in panniers. If I toured, I'd mount a big bottle on the back of the hugely long seatpost, or back of saddle rails, or back of long stem riser.

But thanks for the info, appreciated.

str

In my half frame bag, fits my whole tent + my tools + some energy bars. frame bag + handle bar bag + saddle bag is great, no panniers needed. and bike behaves nearly like a normal road bike.

Jayup

i had frame bags but have been going back to panniers. I like having water bottles instead of blaters but i do like the idea of attaching bottle cages to the fork of the bike

Duragrouch

Plus it may help bring back level top tubes, more frame bag space.

I do have to admit, for my race bike with no rack braze-ons, I used a seatpost beam rack, but a frame bag would have been nice for extra warm clothes or to put them in if it warmed up. But I had two bottle cages and used both, I would need to get a seatback rig for those.

roadfix

In general, I think full frame bags are practical if you have a large frame triangle… worth sacrificing space for water bottles and moving them elsewhere.

str

A frame bag has zero influence in how the bike behaves, if you don't fill it up with concrete bricks you won't feel any difference between riding with a frame bag or not. While panniers have an influence of how a bike behaves.

Duragrouch

Aerodynamics, absolutely. A less narrow profile when going through brush off-road, yep. I think both are motivators for bikepacking style. Stability with panniers, not a problem, especially on my 20" wheel folder (monobeam, could not use a frame bag), where both front and rear panniers are mounted low, so I have tons of leverage over them when rocking or banking the bike. I would think that a heavy handlebar-pack load and seat-pack load up high, would have more negative effect on handling, especially with narrow drop bars versus flat bars.

JSchmoyer

Nice rig... Jamis Renegade? I have the S2, love the bike and glad to see it sets up well for this kind of touring. Hoping to do the GAP trail in early September on mine.

str

Aerodynamics?¿ ) when bike packing or touring at 15 - 20km/h ... )

Duragrouch

Well I'm just remembering from Bicycle Quarterly where they said front panniers are more aero than rear panniers (makes sense, more teardrop, smaller zone of wake turbulence), thus their randonneuring setup was a big handlebar bag between drop bars, and sometimes front panniers, they bike fast enough to sense a difference. IIRC, aero drag increases proportional to the square of the speed, and the power needed to overcome it, the cube of the speed. That's why groundbreaking aero cars, with low drag coefficient, had such great highway speeds with relatively small engines.

But based on what you say, I'm guessing the narrow profile for off-road through trees and brush is the driver for bikepacking style.

Groceries don't hypercompress like a down sleeping bag. That's my most frequent use of my panniers.