Xavier65

Yeah. That's why I've never bought a new mountain bike. Why would I ditch my relaxed 'enjoy the ride - enjoy the scenery' posture of my 1983 Saracen Conquest, to end up as if I'm in the off-road version of the Tour de France?

Maybe they should re-discover the pre-racing mountain bike as a 'mountain touring' bike or 'off-road touring' bike?

I guess if you add knobbly tyres to an expedition bike that's what you end up with. You can add front/rear suspension too, if you like that sort of thing.

How can the masses be so easily fooled into believing a streamlined tuck posture is what they want - rather than comfort?

Tourist in MSN

I can't imagine trying to push into 15 or 20 mph headwinds with an upright posture, but if that is your sort of thing, go for it. I am sold on drop bars. I use the drops about a third of the time.

That said, I used to really have trouble using the drops on my drop bar bikes, used the drops maybe 5 percent of the time at most. Then I lost about 15 percent of my body weight, much of that in the abdomen, and suddenly using the drops was a lot more comfortable. My drop bar tops are within a cm of the height of the top of my saddle, so it is not the extreme aero position that racers have. You see a lot of touring bikes with the drop bars set at about the same height that I use, thus I consider that to be a normal setup.

GhostRider62

Bikepackers are not necessarily trying to complete a course in some time nor are they the masses fooled.

I have traditional touring gear and bikepacking gear.

A bikepacker is more minimalist in approach with gear able to take them places where most traditional touring setups would not work well. Both are tourings in the same way that Thruhikers are backpackers, just faster and more nimble than those carrying chairs, whiskey, and various entertainment devices to keep them busy in camp 16 hours per day. The only reason to differentiate a bikepacker tourist from a traditional minded tourist to avoid their disapproval

cyccommute 

And you were doing so well up to this point. You nailed why using bikepacking bags is better in some situations than traditional panniers. There are also situations where using traditional panniers is better than bikepacking bags. I have both as well. I find bikepacking bags to be a royal pain when it comes to packing and find the ridiculous number of bags needed to be maddening but for situations where the going get rough, the bikepacking bags work much better. That doesn’t make using them any less inconvenient but they do handle the rough much better.

Personally, I don’t differentiate because I disapprove but I differentiate because of the difference in the tools.

GhostRider62

I knew you would validate my point.

Xavier65

You know I'm talking about mountain bikes yes? Not road bikes or tourers?

Or, are you really saying you prefer a tucked position on a mountain bike, with drop bars?

The thing about off-road cycling* is that the terrain is usually so rough, that wind resistance is a minor concern.

* leisure rather than racing.

Tourist in MSN

Your second paragraph mentioned mountain bikes as used for touring. Third paragraph was on expedition bikes. I did not realize you changed the topic to mountain bikes. My error. But I did take your comment as meaning off road, or at least off pavement.

***

I rode White Rim in Canyonlands for four days. I was fortunate to be part of a group of 10 from my community, we planned a trip out there and hired an outfitter to haul our gear and supplies, cook our food, etc. It was similar to a supported tour, but we as a group did the organization before we hired the support.

I am assuming you are in Europe and have not heard of White Rim or Canyonlands, but I think my photos will make the point.

The number of mountain bike rides I have done, I can count the number of total days on two hands. So, as mountain biking goes, I am quite ignorant. Of our group, those that did not own mountain bikes rented. But, I had bought an expedition touring frame and fork, built up that bike for expedition touring. The frame that could be fitted with 100mm suspension fork. And I was really curious how my new bike would perform, so I shopped around and found a 100mm suspension fork that would fit, and used that.With drop bars.

There was one day that I was really happy I had the drop bars, as we had strong head winds that day. At the end of the four days, I concluded that the only thing that my bike lacked that the others had was rear suspension, all the other bikes were full suspension. On some of the roughest terrain, they passed me pretty quickly. I bought a cheap telescoping seatpost but it was not very beneficial. I was quite happy with the drop bars. But there were other times on that trip when I passed the full suspension mountain bikes on the trail.

My bike on White Rim:



My handlebar bag was not built for the bumps on that trail, it had a really bad time of it. A scenic photo of the area from our campsite on White Rim, below.



After White Rim, I used the same bike with the suspension fork in N Dakota on the Maah Daah Hey Trail. That is a pure mountain bike single track trail. We car camped in the campgrounds and rode out and back from the campsites for day riding.



The above two trips represent the sum total of my mountain bike experience. But the opportunity for another trip arose, I still have the suspension fork in storage and could fit it to the bike.

I the above photos, we only had to carry our water, lunch, and daily supplies.

The photos below shows what my bike was really built for, the solid (non-suspension) fork was fitted.





I made comments in your previous thread on your Pinion bike, my comments compared that to my experience with a Rohloff bike. The photos above are of my Rohloff bike. I refer to your previous thread at:
https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1...28-pinion.html

The bike in my photos above is a Thorn Nomad Mk II. The manufacturer highly recommended flat bars, not drop bars for that model bike. But, I have to say that I am glad that I did not take their suggestion. I bought a model size with a top tube length more appropriate for drop bars and built it up that way And it works great.

In all of the photos above, I used a 36T chainring, but had a 44T chainring fitted as a bashguard. So, if the chainring with no chain on it looked odd with no front derailleur, that was why it looked that way.

joesch

Here is another view of bike packing.
Using a bike to get to the point where hiking is necessary to finish the intended journey.
Such a trip would probably need mountain type bike to get to the hiking point.
Perhaps this is a good example of hard core "bike packing"++
Case in point, many of you probably know of or have seen this video, especially you PNW cyclist.
The story is called:

Overnight in the Loneliest House on Earth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTqVocrDoy0

Both the bike packing and back packing to hike to WA cabin are pretty extreme.
I loved watching but doing would be a living night mare for me.
Maybe if I was still young and dumb

Enjoy

Germany_chris

autonomy

OK, I think I can explain. Bikepacking is really a subset of bike touring. Bike touring is where you are a happy camper, traveling around the world, meeting cool locals, sampling local cuisine, staying at warm shower hosts, etc. Bikepacking is mostly off road and involves lots and lots of suffering. It has to rain. Or it has to be gnarly. Or both, preferably simultaneously. You have to be tired and sweaty, out of water at some point, pushing through a wall. There has to be some Type II fun where you are thinking "never again" but 3 days later saying "that was crazy fun". Oh, and bikepacking also has to happen way the F out there with no one around you except for a cloud of bugs out to suck your blood.

cyccommute 

Sums it up nicely.

Symox

To me, if you are doing the equivalent of a backpacking trip on a bike you are bikepacking. I could care less what types of bags or mounts are used. I suspect for the general public this is likely the thinking. I like to bikepack with a (gasp) gravel bike using a rack, Panniers and some small frame bags. I’ve tried the seat bag approach and find that rack and panniers are superior for my needs.

KPREN

Does not have to be any of the suffering above at all. Bikepacking is considered to be touring unsupported off road. Generally with a lighter rig but not always. My bikepack rig is a fat e bike with a 2.6Kwh battery The kit always includes my dog and may or may not include beer and ice.