Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Fifty Plus (50+)
Reload this Page >

How fast do you climb?

Notices
Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.
View Poll Results: What is your VAM?
Greater than 1067
7
9.33%
915 to 1066
12
16.00%
763 to 914
17
22.67%
610 to 762
22
29.33%
457 to 609
8
10.67%
305 to 456
1
1.33%
Other
8
10.67%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

How fast do you climb?

Old 01-22-19, 06:33 AM
  #76  
Ald1 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Central Pa.
Posts: 293

Bikes: Domane SLR 9 Fuji Gran Fondo 2.3 1978 Mercian

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 7 Posts
I'm assuming the VAM poll is in meters not feet? Please clarify as my Garmin is set to feet. Is everyone responding to this quoting meters? Thanks
Ald1 is offline  
Old 01-22-19, 07:13 AM
  #77  
Hermes
Version 7.0
Thread Starter
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,097

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 2,437 Times in 1,425 Posts
Originally Posted by Ald1
I'm assuming the VAM poll is in meters not feet? Please clarify as my Garmin is set to feet. Is everyone responding to this quoting meters? Thanks
VAM is in meters.
Hermes is offline  
Old 01-22-19, 01:03 PM
  #78  
DiabloScott
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 9,991

Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4310 Post(s)
Liked 2,953 Times in 1,601 Posts
The purpose of VAM is to estimate how fast a rider will climb an unknown hill, based on information from a well-known hill.
So pro riders can tell how much time they'll gain or lose over a competitor on a climb for instance.
And it's not valid for climbs less than 6% or so, because it assumes essentially all the power is going into elevation rather than wind and rolling resistance.
DiabloScott is offline  
Old 01-22-19, 08:19 PM
  #79  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,500

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3872 Post(s)
Liked 1,920 Times in 1,369 Posts
An oldie but goodie. Depends on the bike and the ride.

Tandem this past Sunday, 460. On long climbs last summer, shorter rides of only ~70 miles, with my single, ~840. Very long event rides, more like 500.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 02-05-19, 02:07 PM
  #80  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times in 1,417 Posts
Best ever was getting a 1-hr T-shirt for the Mt. Diablo Challenge. That was 992 VAM. That was my best climbing shape ever. (All it took was 8 weeks of intervals and no desserts, no fried foods, no candy, no soda, no nothin' fun to eat)

That was a few years ago. Recently I did the North Side at a much more relaxed pace: 628.
caloso is offline  
Old 02-05-19, 09:02 PM
  #81  
spelger
Senior Member
 
spelger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: reno, nv
Posts: 2,274

Bikes: yes, i have one

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1122 Post(s)
Liked 1,169 Times in 682 Posts
Originally Posted by gregf83
900-1000 on 40 min hills, a little over 1100 on 10 min hills.
Demonstrates what a useless unit of measurement this is. I do about 580 meters in 50 minutes. Pretty sure I can do better on a shorter hill.
spelger is offline  
Old 02-05-19, 11:30 PM
  #82  
gregf83 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,201
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1186 Post(s)
Liked 289 Times in 177 Posts
Originally Posted by spelger
Demonstrates what a useless unit of measurement this is. I do about 580 meters in 50 minutes. Pretty sure I can do better on a shorter hill.
Why is it a useless measurement? It correlates very well to your power/weight ratio.
gregf83 is offline  
Old 02-06-19, 12:38 AM
  #83  
DrIsotope
Non omnino gravis
 
DrIsotope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SoCal, USA!
Posts: 8,553

Bikes: Nekobasu, Pandicorn, Lakitu

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4905 Post(s)
Liked 1,731 Times in 958 Posts
Best single effort on an HC climb, 696VAM (998M of gain in 16.4km.) I can manage high 800s / low 900s on Cat 2 and 3. I can't dig a decent number out of Veloviewer for a Cat 1, as it has an errored starting elevation on my top segment (so it thinks I climbed from sea level, and gives me a 1,440VAM) Overall, day in and day out, typical pacing will put me 625-650VAM.

To decide the category of a climb Strava multiplies the length of the climb (in meters) with the grade of the climb. If that number is greater than 8000 then it is a categorized climb.
  • Cat 4 > 8000
  • Cat 3 > 16000
  • Cat 2 > 32000
  • Cat 1 > 48000
  • HC (Hors Categorie) > 64000
If it takes 10 minutes, it's probably not an actual climb. Or you have a VAM of like 2,000.
__________________
DrIsotope is offline  
Old 02-06-19, 07:37 AM
  #84  
spelger
Senior Member
 
spelger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: reno, nv
Posts: 2,274

Bikes: yes, i have one

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1122 Post(s)
Liked 1,169 Times in 682 Posts
Originally Posted by gregf83
Why is it a useless measurement? It correlates very well to your power/weight ratio.
well, the reason why i see it as useless is because of the wide open interpretation, at least that is how i read the thread opener. the units are meters per hour. i can always ride a steep short hill and use maximum power. compare that with an equally steep but much longer hill i highly doubt my mph will be the same. my local favorite is about 8 miles long. i ride this all the time, i am faster at the bottom than at the top and the grade does not vary by too much. i'm pretty sure that if i did the calculations my mph would steadily decline as i went up that hill, i simply get tired the longer i ride.

if the measurement were described as something like "VAM is a measurement of meters per hour taken under the following conditions: x% average grade with a variance of +/- y% ridden for a total of z minutes" then i would find VAM a useful measurement. this puts everyone on the same page, kind of like my car can go from 0 to 60 in xyz seconds.

i drive an older model CRV by the way, probably in the 15 second range on a good day, down hill.

-scott

i might want to add the riders current elevation. i live in reno NV. not much air up here compared to our friends in FL.
spelger is offline  
Old 02-06-19, 08:20 AM
  #85  
DrIsotope
Non omnino gravis
 
DrIsotope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SoCal, USA!
Posts: 8,553

Bikes: Nekobasu, Pandicorn, Lakitu

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4905 Post(s)
Liked 1,731 Times in 958 Posts
It's absolutely relevant, as Strava won't show a VAM unless the climb is categorized. So if the segment is very short, it's going to be very steep. As a score of 8,000 is the minimum for a Cat 4, if it's 1,000m long, it has to average over 8%. I've averaged ~1,200VAM on climbs like that, but the entire Cat 1 or HC effort is usually around 700VAM.

I'm usually below the halfway point on the leaderboards on big climbs, in the neighborhood of 1,400/2,500 or 1,600/2,700. Until I sort by weight, anyway. Then it's like 200/500 or even 40/170. It's not lost on me that the 200-224 category makes up less than 10% of efforts on local HC climbs.
__________________
DrIsotope is offline  
Old 02-06-19, 09:21 AM
  #86  
gregf83 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,201
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1186 Post(s)
Liked 289 Times in 177 Posts
Originally Posted by spelger
well, the reason why i see it as useless is because of the wide open interpretation, at least that is how i read the thread opener. the units are meters per hour. i can always ride a steep short hill and use maximum power. compare that with an equally steep but much longer hill i highly doubt my mph will be the same. my local favorite is about 8 miles long.
Similar to power/weight VAM will vary with duration. It's typically used to measure ascent on longer climbs. It's a good metric to compare your performance with others on similar climbs as well as your own performance over time on similar climbs.
gregf83 is offline  
Old 02-06-19, 11:53 AM
  #87  
DiabloScott
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 9,991

Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4310 Post(s)
Liked 2,953 Times in 1,601 Posts
Originally Posted by spelger
Demonstrates what a useless unit of measurement this is.
It is not useless; it is mis-used.
DiabloScott is offline  
Old 02-06-19, 12:35 PM
  #88  
Hermes
Version 7.0
Thread Starter
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,097

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 2,437 Times in 1,425 Posts
Originally Posted by caloso
Best ever was getting a 1-hr T-shirt for the Mt. Diablo Challenge. That was 992 VAM. That was my best climbing shape ever. (All it took was 8 weeks of intervals and no desserts, no fried foods, no candy, no soda, no nothin' fun to eat)

That was a few years ago. Recently I did the North Side at a much more relaxed pace: 628.
I like the 992 for the Diablo Challenge a lot. I have ridden the south side and as I remember it is climbing from the start. I have raced the north side a couple of times as a 10K ITT and therefore not all the way to the top. The north starts out flat to rolling and then pitches up. A couple of races have used TT bikes with a disc / fast front wheel to do the 10k due to the flatter start. So I would suspect a lower VAM for that climb. I do not recall my VAM from the north side.
Hermes is offline  
Old 02-06-19, 01:19 PM
  #89  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,522

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4558 Post(s)
Liked 2,798 Times in 1,798 Posts
VAM may not be relevant to our area since our longest "climbs" are maybe 2 miles long at most, averaging only 1%-2% with undulating brief peaks near low double digits. But the Elevate extension for Strava adds some info that helps confirm I'm making some progress.

I try not to obsess over the data or think about it during a ride, so I don't bias my rides with extra effort to "prove" I'm getting stronger when I'm actually just redlining at an effort I couldn't sustain for more than a minute. But after some recent bike tweaks -- sealed bearing pulleys to replace the draggy old sintered bushing bearing pulleys; raising the seat post/saddle a bit to encourage myself to spin rather than mash -- Elevate's data, including VAM, shows some improvement -- from 690 to 720.

But I'd need to find some real sustained climbs that last longer than a couplafew minutes. Best I can do locally is repeats. The brief eased effort between climbs is like interval training, which doesn't really test how I'd do on a sustained climb. I already know I can recovery fairly well with 30-60 seconds of recovery between efforts.
canklecat is offline  
Old 02-06-19, 06:04 PM
  #90  
obrentharris 
Senior Member
 
obrentharris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Point Reyes Station, California
Posts: 4,715

Bikes: Indeed!

Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1504 Post(s)
Liked 3,440 Times in 1,127 Posts
I'm proud to say that I have always been fast enough up every hill to arrive at the top at the same time as my bike.

...OK. I'll admit that it always beats me by about a wheel length.

As for VAM, I never knew what it was before I saw this thread. Looking at my Strava logs for the last year it's all over the board; averaging around 1500 for 3-minute climbs, 600 to 750 for twenty-minute climbs, and around 350 for most MTB climbs. I'm not sure it's a very valuable metric to me except if I were foolish enough to go back into my Strava records for several years to see my loss of strength as I creep towards my Seventies, and I think I'd rather not know that!
Brent

Last edited by obrentharris; 02-06-19 at 06:05 PM. Reason: spelling
obrentharris is offline  
Old 02-07-19, 12:03 PM
  #91  
DiabloScott
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 9,991

Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4310 Post(s)
Liked 2,953 Times in 1,601 Posts
Originally Posted by Hermes


I like the 992 for the Diablo Challenge a lot. I have ridden the south side and as I remember it is climbing from the start. I have raced the north side a couple of times as a 10K ITT and therefore not all the way to the top. The north starts out flat to rolling and then pitches up. A couple of races have used TT bikes with a disc / fast front wheel to do the 10k due to the flatter start. So I would suspect a lower VAM for that climb. I do not recall my VAM from the north side.
North Gate has an easy start, South Gate has an easy middle. Not for argument, but just because it's interesting:

Nathan English: NG to Junction - 24m56s, VAM=1339
Nathan English: SG to Junction - 20m01s, VAM=1288
Nathan English: NG to Summit - 46m24s, VAM=1375
Nathan English: SG to Summit - 41m24s, VAM=1366
DiabloScott is offline  
Old 02-07-19, 02:38 PM
  #92  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times in 1,417 Posts
Originally Posted by DiabloScott
North Gate has an easy start, South Gate has an easy middle. Not for argument, but just because it's interesting:

Nathan English: NG to Junction - 24m56s, VAM=1339
Nathan English: SG to Junction - 20m01s, VAM=1288
Nathan English: NG to Summit - 46m24s, VAM=1375
Nathan English: SG to Summit - 41m24s, VAM=1366
When I went back and analyzed it, I think the only way I was able to break an hour was because I was hanging on to a fast group that stayed on the gas through the flat part at Rock City.

Also, my first year of racing I was in the Cat 5 race with Nate English at Cherry Pie in Napa. He lapped the field and went from Cat 5 to Cat 1 in a single season, then signed a pro contract the next season. I was still a Cat 5.
caloso is offline  
Old 02-07-19, 04:25 PM
  #93  
Hermes
Version 7.0
Thread Starter
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,097

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 2,437 Times in 1,425 Posts
Originally Posted by DiabloScott
North Gate has an easy start, South Gate has an easy middle. Not for argument, but just because it's interesting:

Nathan English: NG to Junction - 24m56s, VAM=1339
Nathan English: SG to Junction - 20m01s, VAM=1288
Nathan English: NG to Summit - 46m24s, VAM=1375
Nathan English: SG to Summit - 41m24s, VAM=1366
The other icon that raced Diablo was Ned Overend who was a 55+ guy seemed to recall that he beat English one time but I may be wrong.

Last edited by Hermes; 02-07-19 at 06:52 PM.
Hermes is offline  
Old 02-07-19, 04:28 PM
  #94  
Hermes
Version 7.0
Thread Starter
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,097

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 2,437 Times in 1,425 Posts
Originally Posted by caloso
When I went back and analyzed it, I think the only way I was able to break an hour was because I was hanging on to a fast group that stayed on the gas through the flat part at Rock City.

Also, my first year of racing I was in the Cat 5 race with Nate English at Cherry Pie in Napa. He lapped the field and went from Cat 5 to Cat 1 in a single season, then signed a pro contract the next season. I was still a Cat 5.
And the world tour pros are knocking out 1600 VAM on climbs. Although, one of our 55+ guys had a faster time that the Tour of California pros at Patterson Pass. In fairness, they had been racing for awhile and that climb may not have been decisive that day at that moment.
Hermes is offline  
Old 02-07-19, 05:19 PM
  #95  
DiabloScott
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 9,991

Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4310 Post(s)
Liked 2,953 Times in 1,601 Posts
Originally Posted by Hermes
The other icon that raced Diablo was Ned Overland Overend who was a 55+ guy seemed to recall that he beat English one time but I may be wrong.
And I blogged it! Nate beat Ned by 1.5 seconds in 2010.

https://diabloscott.blogspot.com/201...ime-trial.html

DiabloScott is offline  
Old 05-20-19, 04:53 AM
  #96  
Barrettscv 
Have bike, will travel
 
Barrettscv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 12,392

Bikes: Ridley Helium SLX, Canyon Endurance SL, De Rosa Professional, Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Schwinn Paramount (1 painted, 1 chrome), Peugeot PX10, Serotta Nova X, Simoncini Cyclocross Special, Raleigh Roker, Pedal Force CG2 and CX2

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 910 Post(s)
Liked 288 Times in 158 Posts
Well, Hermes provides realistic advice, it is possible to improve your VAM. I reviewed my Garmin and Strava data from this month I have the following results. Keep in mind this is on a 26 lb flatbar fully rigid touring bike.

I have three different climbs this month with >1000 VAM numbers. For example: 290 ft climb over 0.29 miles, a 18% grade taken at 6.0mph for a 1167 VAM.

The Strava data can be found here: https://www.strava.com/activities/2363955957

My VAM as posted by Strava is usually in the 500-600 range, I'm a little suspicious of a result better than this.

I have an event in June that features several difficult climbs. I'll be using a Ridley Helium SLX with a 46 & 30 Absolute Black chainring set. I'll check back after this event.

Last edited by Barrettscv; 05-20-19 at 09:26 AM.
Barrettscv is offline  
Old 05-21-19, 02:27 PM
  #97  
Wileyrat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Tucson Az
Posts: 1,655

Bikes: 2015 Ridley Fenix, 1983 Team Fuji, 2019 Marin Nail Trail 6

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 332 Post(s)
Liked 205 Times in 128 Posts
My climbing style strongly resembles peanut butter flowing uphill.

When I look at my numbers...I don't look at my numbers.
Wileyrat is offline  
Old 05-22-19, 02:05 PM
  #98  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,520

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5218 Post(s)
Liked 3,564 Times in 2,331 Posts
just fast enough not to fall over. sorry, couldn't resist
rumrunn6 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
rower2cyclist
Road Cycling
14
08-20-19 08:46 AM
TacomaSailor
Road Cycling
13
03-24-12 11:20 AM
Barrettscv
Touring
50
02-27-12 11:39 AM
fishymamba
Road Cycling
21
11-03-11 08:35 AM
kvangundy
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing
52
04-05-11 12:56 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.