Buy a new e bike or convert an old bike?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 6,319
Bikes: 2012 Salsa Casseroll, 2009 Kona Blast
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 208 Times
in
146 Posts
Buy a new e bike or convert an old bike?
Asking for a friend. I am a long time member of this forum but don't know much about e bikes. My friend's bike is an ancient Panasonic 10 speed from the 70s. He brought up e bikes to me due to his recent heart attack. I told him he should consider one of the new e bikes. but he balked at the cost, saying he could buy something called a Copenhagen wheel or do a conversion for less money than a new e bike.
To me, it seems crazy to spend big bucks to convert such an old bike, but I figured I would put the question to this forum.
Thanks.
To me, it seems crazy to spend big bucks to convert such an old bike, but I figured I would put the question to this forum.
Thanks.
#2
Banned
Fwiw,
My local shop has done many Mid drive conversions to MTB for hunters
its woodlands / tree farm - timberlands around here.. Elk & Deer ...
motor assembly replaces crankset
cost is $1600.. for parts & labor ..
you may not have any significant elevation gain to cope with then a hub motor scheme may be adequate..
(71, I'm Still Pedaling on my own)
>> I'd warn the issue with an old bike conversion will be inadequate Brakes <<
Have not seen a 'Copenhagen Wheel' in person .. did see diagrams , the battery is small capacity
because it has to be inside the wheel..
& they seem to sell for $1750 ..
...
its woodlands / tree farm - timberlands around here.. Elk & Deer ...
motor assembly replaces crankset
cost is $1600.. for parts & labor ..
you may not have any significant elevation gain to cope with then a hub motor scheme may be adequate..
(71, I'm Still Pedaling on my own)
>> I'd warn the issue with an old bike conversion will be inadequate Brakes <<
Have not seen a 'Copenhagen Wheel' in person .. did see diagrams , the battery is small capacity
because it has to be inside the wheel..
& they seem to sell for $1750 ..
...
Last edited by fietsbob; 04-04-19 at 09:53 AM.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 1,406
Bikes: GT Transeo & a half dozen ebike conversions.
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 340 Post(s)
Liked 275 Times
in
192 Posts
It's all relative. A $1750 Copenhagen might be cheaper than a $2900 Trek. I don't care for the concept. Our first ebike was $1300 in 2015 and still runs well, and I think it's a better value. My first ebike conversion was also from 2015 and cost me under $500. It's been quite reliable, but I did have to draw on years of hands on tinkering and engineering knowledge to be comfortable with the project.
I think a Copenhagen is overly expensive and limited in range/speed/climbing compared to a less expensive conventional kit, but the latter requires expertise to install. A Panasonic 10 speed with dropped bars is not the ideal candidate for conversion. The controls, brake levers,and throttle used in most bike kits are intended for hybrids and mountain bikes. The road bike frame is probably overly narrow for a regular hub motor. The Copenhagen would drop into a road bike and there's no wiring,as I understand it. For someone w/o mechanical/electrical skills, that is huge, Nonetheless, you could buy a complete ebike for that kind of money (Juiced, Radbikes, etc) , and you also have to consider what he plans to do with it.
I figure your friend will ride with you. How far and how fast do you ride? I don't believe the Copenhagen will hold 18-20 mph under assist for too long. Lots of hills in Wisconsin too.,
I think a Copenhagen is overly expensive and limited in range/speed/climbing compared to a less expensive conventional kit, but the latter requires expertise to install. A Panasonic 10 speed with dropped bars is not the ideal candidate for conversion. The controls, brake levers,and throttle used in most bike kits are intended for hybrids and mountain bikes. The road bike frame is probably overly narrow for a regular hub motor. The Copenhagen would drop into a road bike and there's no wiring,as I understand it. For someone w/o mechanical/electrical skills, that is huge, Nonetheless, you could buy a complete ebike for that kind of money (Juiced, Radbikes, etc) , and you also have to consider what he plans to do with it.
I figure your friend will ride with you. How far and how fast do you ride? I don't believe the Copenhagen will hold 18-20 mph under assist for too long. Lots of hills in Wisconsin too.,
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 6,319
Bikes: 2012 Salsa Casseroll, 2009 Kona Blast
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 208 Times
in
146 Posts
It's all relative. A $1750 Copenhagen might be cheaper than a $2900 Trek. I don't care for the concept. Our first ebike was $1300 in 2015 and still runs well, and I think it's a better value. My first ebike conversion was also from 2015 and cost me under $500. It's been quite reliable, but I did have to draw on years of hands on tinkering and engineering knowledge to be comfortable with the project.
I think a Copenhagen is overly expensive and limited in range/speed/climbing compared to a less expensive conventional kit, but the latter requires expertise to install. A Panasonic 10 speed with dropped bars is not the ideal candidate for conversion. The controls, brake levers,and throttle used in most bike kits are intended for hybrids and mountain bikes. The road bike frame is probably overly narrow for a regular hub motor. The Copenhagen would drop into a road bike and there's no wiring,as I understand it. For someone w/o mechanical/electrical skills, that is huge, Nonetheless, you could buy a complete ebike for that kind of money (Juiced, Radbikes, etc) , and you also have to consider what he plans to do with it.
I figure your friend will ride with you. How far and how fast do you ride? I don't believe the Copenhagen will hold 18-20 mph under assist for too long. Lots of hills in Wisconsin too.,
I think a Copenhagen is overly expensive and limited in range/speed/climbing compared to a less expensive conventional kit, but the latter requires expertise to install. A Panasonic 10 speed with dropped bars is not the ideal candidate for conversion. The controls, brake levers,and throttle used in most bike kits are intended for hybrids and mountain bikes. The road bike frame is probably overly narrow for a regular hub motor. The Copenhagen would drop into a road bike and there's no wiring,as I understand it. For someone w/o mechanical/electrical skills, that is huge, Nonetheless, you could buy a complete ebike for that kind of money (Juiced, Radbikes, etc) , and you also have to consider what he plans to do with it.
I figure your friend will ride with you. How far and how fast do you ride? I don't believe the Copenhagen will hold 18-20 mph under assist for too long. Lots of hills in Wisconsin too.,
My view is, he should not put any more money into his old bike. Not that there is anything wrong with riding old bikes, but in this case, there is really nothing special about it. He got his money out of it, even considering the work he had to put into it the last 5 years just to ride it, but the time has come to buy another bike.
That is my view, but I am open to hearing from those who have successfully converted 40 year old 10 speeds to electric.
#5
Senior Member
This is a myth that I've heard over and over again about ebikes. They do not require enhanced brakes. I've crossed the country at least six times (if you include N & S crossings) carrying 30+ pounds of gear using conventional side pulls or cantilevers. Why does my retrofitted ebike now need special brakes because of its whopping 17 pound load of battery and motor for rides around town?
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 1,406
Bikes: GT Transeo & a half dozen ebike conversions.
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 340 Post(s)
Liked 275 Times
in
192 Posts
I've converted several mountain bikes, one of them 40 years old, No road bikes. At my age, I don't need dropped bars.
If I had a friend who was adamant about a road bike, I would install a TSDZ2 mid drive. It fits into where you have your cranks and you lose the front derailleur. However, you just pedal it and the motor will spin at a rate proportional to your effort, It comes with a throttle which doesn't have to be used and the motor stops when pedal force halts, About $400-500 for motor. Battery will be $500 and up.
If you're not far from Northern Illinois, talk to this man, I've never met him, but his shop sound very reputable.
https://electricbikereview.com/forum...-on-ebr.26707/
Electric Bikes, Sales And Service - Mike's Electric Bikes
If I had a friend who was adamant about a road bike, I would install a TSDZ2 mid drive. It fits into where you have your cranks and you lose the front derailleur. However, you just pedal it and the motor will spin at a rate proportional to your effort, It comes with a throttle which doesn't have to be used and the motor stops when pedal force halts, About $400-500 for motor. Battery will be $500 and up.
If you're not far from Northern Illinois, talk to this man, I've never met him, but his shop sound very reputable.
https://electricbikereview.com/forum...-on-ebr.26707/
Electric Bikes, Sales And Service - Mike's Electric Bikes
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: socal
Posts: 4,265
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 883 Post(s)
Liked 823 Times
in
622 Posts
Bob G, agree about brakes; I have a 30+ mph flat bar commuter with a "V" brake in front and cantilever in the rear and have no difficulty stopping. If the individual the OP references likes drop bar orientation, the primary challenge is that it's difficult to mount a throttle, which might be paramount if he gets tired during a ride (Chas58 has done this). Most reviews for the Copenhagen Wheel have been positive, but there are less expensive options. If he could supply his budget, intended speed and range, we could be more helpful.
#8
Banned
"Panasonic 10 speed from the 70s." thats 5 by 2.. 120 rear width
this is about his bike not yours ..
this is about his bike not yours ..
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,248
Bikes: This list got too long: several ‘bents, an urban utility e-bike, and a dahon D7 that my daughter has absconded with.
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times
in
48 Posts
I've converted several mountain bikes, one of them 40 years old, No road bikes. At my age, I don't need dropped bars.
If I had a friend who was adamant about a road bike, I would install a TSDZ2 mid drive. It fits into where you have your cranks and you lose the front derailleur. However, you just pedal it and the motor will spin at a rate proportional to your effort, It comes with a throttle which doesn't have to be used and the motor stops when pedal force halts, About $400-500 for motor. Battery will be $500 and up.
If you're not far from Northern Illinois, talk to this man, I've never met him, but his shop sound very reputable.
https://electricbikereview.com/forum...-on-ebr.26707/
Electric Bikes, Sales And Service - Mike's Electric Bikes
If I had a friend who was adamant about a road bike, I would install a TSDZ2 mid drive. It fits into where you have your cranks and you lose the front derailleur. However, you just pedal it and the motor will spin at a rate proportional to your effort, It comes with a throttle which doesn't have to be used and the motor stops when pedal force halts, About $400-500 for motor. Battery will be $500 and up.
If you're not far from Northern Illinois, talk to this man, I've never met him, but his shop sound very reputable.
https://electricbikereview.com/forum...-on-ebr.26707/
Electric Bikes, Sales And Service - Mike's Electric Bikes
As far as the install, It was pretty easy. I did install it on a bike with cheap Shimano hydraulic disc brakes and they are more than adequate.
#11
Occam's Rotor
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,248
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 2,331 Times
in
1,164 Posts
I just saw Calfee does conversions:
https://calfeedesign.com/calfee-ebike-retrofit-service/
Anyone have any experience?
https://calfeedesign.com/calfee-ebike-retrofit-service/
Anyone have any experience?
#13
Old and in the way.
I feel like this is sorta true, sorta not. I think it depends on how/where you ride? If you ride mostly in open places/low traffic it should be fine with rim breaks, however if you are an aggressive urban rider, plan on going over 30 Miles Per hour I would recommend discs. I have rim brakes on both my bikes but I am old and slow and ride mostly on rural bike paths. YMMV
I would also recommend at least a front shock over 30 MPH. And a motorcycle helmet.
Actually after dropping down a 10% grade on my pedal bike this morning and hitting bad pavement at 35MPH, front shock is a must. I didn't bail but I was all over the road for about 50 yards. It coulda been a mess.
Last edited by starkmojo; 04-13-19 at 05:09 PM.
#14
Senior Member
I feel like this is sorta true, sorta not. I think it depends on how/where you ride? If you ride mostly in open places/low traffic it should be fine with rim breaks, however if you are an aggressive urban rider, plan on going over 30 Miles Per hour I would recommend discs. I have rim brakes on both my bikes but I am old and slow and ride mostly on rural bike paths. YMMV
I would also recommend at least a front shock over 30 MPH. And a motorcycle helmet.
Actually after dropping down a 10% grade on my pedal bike this morning and hitting bad pavement at 35MPH, front shock is a must. I didn't bail but I was all over the road for about 50 yards. It coulda been a mess.
I would also recommend at least a front shock over 30 MPH. And a motorcycle helmet.
Actually after dropping down a 10% grade on my pedal bike this morning and hitting bad pavement at 35MPH, front shock is a must. I didn't bail but I was all over the road for about 50 yards. It coulda been a mess.
For heavier e-bikes I also recommend a front shock. Mine doesn't have one and I've already noticed that some bumps or cracks in the road can deliver quite a shock to your hands. Hit something really hard at speed and you may even loose your grip on the bars especially if your hands are tired. ( I'll also note here that I would consider front wheel drive on a road bike to be really dangerous, especially on wet roads and sharp turns. )
Now as to retro-fitting the old 70's ten speed....I'd think you'd fair better with a newer but used aluminum frame bike. Doesn't have to be new. Find a nice used hybrid or older hard tail MTB with front shock and then have someone install a retro e-bike kit. That said I've seen complete cheap MTB style e-bikes ( front shock and disc brakes ) on Amazon for close to $800. You'd have to pay someone to put it together more than likely and pay shipping but hell of lot of LBS's that sell new e-bikes do the same thing.
#15
Old and in the way.
As a newbe to e-biking I have to agree with most of your comments. I shutter to think what can happen going down a steep hill at 25-30 mph only to realize that your rims are wet or moist and your rim brakes are going to have a hard time slowing you down. I came close to having this happen before and almost ran off the road while going around a sharp turn ( on my normal road setup ).
For heavier e-bikes I also recommend a front shock. Mine doesn't have one and I've already noticed that some bumps or cracks in the road can deliver quite a shock to your hands. Hit something really hard at speed and you may even loose your grip on the bars especially if your hands are tired. ( I'll also note here that I would consider front wheel drive on a road bike to be really dangerous, especially on wet roads and sharp turns. )
Now as to retro-fitting the old 70's ten speed....I'd think you'd fair better with a newer but used aluminum frame bike. Doesn't have to be new. Find a nice used hybrid or older hard tail MTB with front shock and then have someone install a retro e-bike kit. That said I've seen complete cheap MTB style e-bikes ( front shock and disc brakes ) on Amazon for close to $800. You'd have to pay someone to put it together more than likely and pay shipping but hell of lot of LBS's that sell new e-bikes do the same thing.
For heavier e-bikes I also recommend a front shock. Mine doesn't have one and I've already noticed that some bumps or cracks in the road can deliver quite a shock to your hands. Hit something really hard at speed and you may even loose your grip on the bars especially if your hands are tired. ( I'll also note here that I would consider front wheel drive on a road bike to be really dangerous, especially on wet roads and sharp turns. )
Now as to retro-fitting the old 70's ten speed....I'd think you'd fair better with a newer but used aluminum frame bike. Doesn't have to be new. Find a nice used hybrid or older hard tail MTB with front shock and then have someone install a retro e-bike kit. That said I've seen complete cheap MTB style e-bikes ( front shock and disc brakes ) on Amazon for close to $800. You'd have to pay someone to put it together more than likely and pay shipping but hell of lot of LBS's that sell new e-bikes do the same thing.
Power that with a bafang HHSD and two battery packs because my employer is afraid of batteries, so I cannot charge them at work. hell I might even add a brake light off the motor cutoff sensor...
EDIT: Although i just came across this poking around online: https://ninerbikes.com/pages/the-mcr-9-rdo I think that might be the perfect starting point for a long distance ebike.
Last edited by starkmojo; 04-15-19 at 06:39 AM.
#16
S'Cruzer
those TSDZ2 and other mid-drives are setup for the bottom bracket size and chain line of a newish 26" or 700" basic comfort/hybrid bike, with a 68mm bottom bracket, 135mm dropout width... a 70s panasonic probably has 27" wheels, 120mm rear dropout width, and an entirely different bottom bracket size.
also I'm not even sure I'd want to ride a ebike with skinny road bike wheels... I'm contemplating a 700c build on a bike with 32mm tires, but that old panasonic probably has tires equivalent to 25 or 27mm.
also I'm not even sure I'd want to ride a ebike with skinny road bike wheels... I'm contemplating a 700c build on a bike with 32mm tires, but that old panasonic probably has tires equivalent to 25 or 27mm.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 1,406
Bikes: GT Transeo & a half dozen ebike conversions.
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 340 Post(s)
Liked 275 Times
in
192 Posts
Couldn't convert a bike cheaper than these two on sale from Walmart. It might not be the bike that a road rider wants, but should be fine for neighborhood riding,
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hyper-E-r...9f&athena=true
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hyper-E-R...7c&athena=true
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hyper-E-r...9f&athena=true
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hyper-E-R...7c&athena=true
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: socal
Posts: 4,265
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 883 Post(s)
Liked 823 Times
in
622 Posts
Three year protection plan on the Walmart bikes for $58; wonder what it covers; could be the deal of the century if the bike is used for commuting.
#19
S'Cruzer
Couldn't convert a bike cheaper than these two on sale from Walmart. It might not be the bike that a road rider wants, but should be fine for neighborhood riding,
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hyper-E-r...9f&athena=true
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hyper-E-R...7c&athena=true
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hyper-E-r...9f&athena=true
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hyper-E-R...7c&athena=true