himespau 

I'd say half the price of the tool to do the fix is more than fair. Given that many places charge $75/hour of labor, 10 minutes, plus a few minutes to diagnose the problem, get things out, chat with you, write it up, $20 sounds about right.

livedarklions

Here's the thing, though. If you take the "no intent required" definition of support, it takes the somewhat shallow question in the title of the OP and renders it completely meaningless.

mstateglfr 

Sure, i can see that.

I viewed it as 'why support your LBS?' when the alternative is to support online shops/department stores since those are, to me, the viable alternatives to an LBS, depending on wants/needs.

livedarklions

Don't take offense, but it's a sincere pleasure to encounter a fellow word nerd on these here boards.

bicycale

I find two kinds of LBS in my experience. Big corporatey stores and small business type owner run shops. I live in a pretty big town with lots of shops (Columbus OH) but it's all one or the other.

The corporate type shops all have guys that mostly "just work there" with every once in awhile having the luck to get a knowledgable employee who actually gives a crap. You usually just don't get much help if any and prices are high.

The owner-run shops usually have a very knowledgable owner who hates customers, is arrogant, pushy and rude, and has high prices.

Sometimes you find the small owned store with a really great owner and staff.

Where I live I have 10 or 12 shops in a 25 minute radius and there's exactly ONE of the places where I don't positively begrudge spending money.

Like everything else it comes down to service. Which requires an owner/manager who cares enough to be as helpful as possible while trying to be competitive as possible. This is hard work to be sure but a job worth doing is worth doing well and when it's clear they don't care about you then it makes it sooo easy to shop online.

Anyway that's my 2 cents...

bbbean 

1) They support me
2) They provide great service
3) I can actually lay hands on merchandise, try on gear, and test ride bikes
4) I want them to be there in the future
5) I want somewhere to send friends who want to get into cycling
6) They sponsor rides, races, training, and events in my area
7) The money circulates in my local economy
8) They create local jobs
9) They've become my friends, riding partners, and teammates
10) etc

FWIW, most of the above are true for every LBS I visit, locally and in my travels.

mattleegee

Bought a new bike today from LBS
Spent two hours trying different bikes.... then trying them again, i guess that is better than ordering a box so much difference and i was just riding Specialized and Giant bikes
At the end i bought a bike that was not in the "FINAL THREE" and went Di2 last minute, from Aluminum with 105 all the way to Ultegra!
Also when done i said i would have to come back to get the pick as i could not bring in my car, and they offered to deliver it! A worker followed me home (25mins with traffic)
Im glad i went to a LBS now, and get 6 months of tune ups

Happy Feet

I believe the best thing to happen to cycling would be for every LBS to disapear for about 20 years. This would eliminate all the modern technology that people can not maintain themselves and return cycling to it's grassroots as a simple pastime and pleasure. Clubs could spring up and take their place where more experienced cyclists would mentor newer members in the basics. People would wear normal clothes again if they stopped riding bikes they could not maintain and the median price of bicycles would drop to realistic limits. Without the consumer impulse cycling would become about the experience once more and not the expensive or latest bling.

Just thought I'd stir the pot a bit

puma1552

As I just posted in the other thread on this topic, I'm on day 13 of waiting for a pair of gloves to be delivered to an LBS for a ship to store order. If they don't come in today, then it's Monday at the earliest, which will be day 15.

They were supposed to be delivered in 7-10 days from when I ordered them on the 14th. But they didn't execute the order until the 16th, and they didn't ship until the 19th. Seems 7-10 days actually means 7-10 days from when they ship, which was 5 days after I ordered them, which in reality, they could've been in my mailbox by the day they shipped. Site just said delivery in 7-10 days from the time I ordered.

It was free to ship them to the store, or $9 to ship them to my house for the same timeframe.

That said, I have another LBS I really like, and try to support whenever I can because their knowledge (particularly in the service department) is invaluable.

bcpriess

I like my lbs. They're nice people, they organize a lot of cool events, have a great cafe, are reasonable, and boost tourism in my town. I give them first shot on in stock items and buy consumables. They repair the stuff I don't.

Eric S.

I had a similar experience to the OP's comment. I had an old frame powder coated a few years ago, and the shop called me on a Sunday saying they weren't really open for business but they were working and I could come get it. Great! I called a bike shop that was open on Sundays asking if I could bring my frame in to get the bearing cups pressed. Upon checkout, the mechanic said headset installation was normally $50, but since he didn't do a complete installation he'd only charge me $40!

At the time, I could have bought the consumer Park headset press on eBay for ~$40. I know, I could have gone the Home Depot/Lowe's threaded rod/washers route.

On the other hand, I've had shops be very gracious. Once, a barrel adjuster broke on an old Ultegra 8sp rear derailleur. The mechanic dug a match out of a drawer and couldn't really take payment because it was not a coded item, so I bought a water bottle to make up for it.

I'll add that I worked at a shop in the early '80s. It had a pretty good stock of Campagnolo, but other than that we had drawers full of screws, nuts, bolts to fix everything. I miss when compatibility was not so picky.

madfolder

I was a LBS owner for 25 years, and felt that I had to earn the trust and respect of everyone that came through the door. My pricing was fair, but not cheap. I invested in tools, the correct tools to do virtually anything you could think of. I even had a Phil Wood Spoke threading machine in the event you came in and I did not have the right size and did not charge for that value added service. My shop had a gated kids area complete with a kids picnic table, crayons, coloring books, toys, VCR (yup that long ago) so parents did not have to worry about their kids and I did not have to worry about bikes toppling. I held new owner classes, supported the local club and racing, plus somehow managed to be available for support for EVERY bike event in the area. I also was responsible for creating events that are still going on today, almost 20 years later.


I too went fishing for small parts to help out a customer, and gave used bikes away to those that needed it, or clothing for the young racer that had no family support. This is only a small sampling of what I did behind the scenes, and many other shops do too.

So that $20 charge for the stubborn BB is a gift. They probably would have charged that had it taken 30 minutes, BUT they had the tool (which costs money) and had the knowledge to do it properly. Its easy to whine about cost as we sip a $20 glass of wine or a $5 cup of coffee but here is someone providing a service, while you waited!!


There are plenty of poorly run LBS's just as there are plenty of terrible other businesses. We all have a choice, and I choose to go local as much as possible when I know the backstory, and understand the challenges of running a retail operation.


I'm sure this topic will pop up again, but at least I stated what I wanted to this time.

puma1552

Why do you no longer own the store?

hcgaloi

Oh, boy.... I thought you were describing my city, San Diego, CA. You are fortunate to find ONE. I haven't found that ONE in my city yet ...

Cheers...

Duragrouch

I try to support local businesses against the evil empire Amazon, both for equity and so they'll be here when I need them. But supporting the local bike shop is harder than all the others.

I had not used Amazon at all until I restored to like new my girlfriend's son's older Cannondale mountain bike. The entire drivetrain was trashed from being out in the rain a lot at school, chain rusted and skipped badly, cogs cupped, cranked rattled it was so loose. Front hub balls were rusty, same for pedals. LBS wasn't even a choice, they didn't stock old Shimano Deore 9 speed. Looked online, I found exactly what I needed, and most things at 50% off list, delivered to her door on varying schedules, free shipping. Genuine Deore gear cluster (cassette), freehub body, chain, square taper bottom bracket, a 500 piece assortment of 5 different sizes of high grade steel balls for every bearing, brake pads, etc.

Hotop 2 Pairs V Bike Brake Pads with Hex Nuts and Spacers V Bicycle Brake Blocks Set 70 mm (Black) $7.59 1

500 Piece Assorted Loose Bicycle Bearing Balls 1/8", 5/32", 3/16" 7/32" & 1/4" $7.45 1

Shimano Deore FH-M525-SL 8/9-Speed Freehub Body $17.49 1

Shimano UN55 BB Square Taper Bottom Bracket (68x110mm) $20.95 1

Shimano CN-HG93 Ultegra/XT 9-Speed Chain $18.43 1

Shimano HG400 9 Speed Mountain Bike Cassette - CS-HG400-9 (11-32) $27.92 1

Shimano Freehub Spoke Protector 32-34 Tooth, 4 Hook, 32 Hole Clear Plastic $9.99. 1

Now, I need to do a full lube on an internal gear hub (new, says "permanently lubed", I don't buy it) and no lube port. There's a LBS across town that specializes in such things, excellent website, he says definitely needs more and better lube, and done annually if used in rain. Very competent work, but since no lube port, a full teardown, solvent clean, grease and lube, reassembly, is over $100. That's actually reasonable for the job, but I'm not going to spend that giving that I'm retired and my time is worth essentially zero. Found a factory technical manual online, going to print out at the library for free later today, and will have at it.

Kedish

$20 seems like a pretty reasonable price to pay to do that job. I would think that a LBS would make a min time amout on any work. That being said, I do not support my LBS. Not because of prices, but the customer service is horrible. I like to work on my own stuff, and when I walked in there, they looked at me like an idiot.

livedarklions

Well said. The service is exactly what I'm paying for, and if it's not there, I feel no obligation to be a customer just because it's local. Fortunately I get great service at both neighborhood LBS, and both seem happy to install parts I buy elsewhere as long as I pay them for their time. I've always been treated more than fairly by both of them, and so I stay loyal.

Mr Carl

I get several things on line. But, there are times I go to my LBS for quick items. On line and LBS are needed

Rides4Beer

Because they have beer.

Also because they're just cool folks who love bikes and support the local cycling community.

That being said, I also buy a lot of stuff online, but I don't feel guilty about saving money. I bought a set of bars online and had the shop do the install, because it was easier to drop it off to them in the morning and be riding that evening rather than spending my time recabling integrated bars.

But also because they have beer, good beer in fact.

hokiefyd 

One of my local shops has a $2 rule. Anything super small and finicky like that is $2. I'm certain that I've "lost" some with that rule, but I think I've made out with some really nice stuff, too. I scored a Campagnolo cable guide/bracket for $2, two Shimano barrel adjuster/stops that replace downtube shifters ($2 ea), and two old school alloy triangle yokes for center pull brakes ($2 ea). The weekday guy and I know each other by name and they take care of me when I need help with stuff. I haven't yet bought a bike there, but I've spent as much on parts over the years. Their prices are mostly in line with what I see on Amazon. I know they order through QBP, as do most shops, but they don't seem to mark things up as high as some do.

The other bike shop in town (from which I have bought a bike, because they sold the brand I wanted to buy) will mark parts up 100% from what they pay. I see his price on his computer (he's not particularly secretive about it) and he quotes exactly double that if he has to order something. The first bike shop doesn't seem to mark stuff up as much. But the first bike shop also doesn't seem to do much for local community. The second bike shop that seems more expensive on average is also involved in local charity and religious organizations and has booths at local festivals and such, so the additional cost seems to go back into the community to some degree.

I also order a lot of things online, but I do try to visit both shops on a regular basis, if only to cultivate that relationship.

dkatz1

I am greatly in favor of my LBS...I've been going to the same place for around 20 years, and: I get such great and helpful service (I don't doubt that there are places that give bad service, but mine doesn't)...They're not a place like REI...I buy most things in my life online, but only rarely bike stuff (tires being the exception, as I've found them not a little bit cheaper) but way cheaper...my LBS is similar to online prices, and like I said: i get great service, have made friends with people there...once they know you really ride they treat you well, maybe even if you don't...I'm mechanically inept and don't have any intersest in learning to how to work on bikes beyond changing tubes and such, so I need a good place to go to.
They struggle a bit these days (my friend there tells me) as so many people are buying on the internet...when I bought my bikes (last one was in 2007) I felt that it was really important to get it somewhere I'd be taken care of...

BadGrandma

Bicycale, there's a good shop in Canal Winchester and a
good one in Westerville. Any chance you were talking about either one?

Bobjackson

I can understand their need to make money. What I don't understand is the arrogance sometimes felt visiting a LBS. When it comes to parts they need to understand there was a phenomenon called the internet. Two things I don't like condescension and lack of follow-up. Those two aspects probably push people towards the internet more than anything.

My 2 cents

timtak

Wgscott is wiser than me. I bought the hybrid even though I was not in the mood for it. I realised my mistake and got a carbon road bike online from Taiwan and asked the LBS to tune it for me. They got angry with me for not purchasing their branded road bike at two or three times the price. I have not been back since. I still feel rather silly. I thought we were friends too! Like, right.

Occasionally I ask a mothers shopper bike local bike store to do mechanical things. They are good and cheap. There is also a chain store that employs students. They are not so good.

Cyclist0108

The one I had in mind talked me into getting a hybrid, which I despised. I gave it to my daughter's flute teacher, and he really likes it, so it worked out ok in the end.