CycleryNorth81

Did any of the vintage bike makers mixed SunTour and Shimano together on a factory specified bike? Did this occur often? Would this Frankenbike be the mother of all Frankenbikes? Please provide pics if you have them.

LOL. The site censored my combination of SHImano and sunTOUR.

tyler_fred

My recent find, a Maruishi-built Nashbar Toure, has all Suntour with the exception being the Shimano cantilever brake calipers and levers.

zukahn1 

A lot of 80's bikes had Suntour drive trains and Shimano brakes stock. I don't know of any that mixed Suntour and Shimano drive train parts except for some low production stuff that used a Shimano triple crank and Suntour dr's shifters.. Here is recent examples of bike I have had with Suntour DR's and Shimano brakes Miyata Ninety from 84.

non-fixie 

Raleigh did. They would combine pretty much anything. Which, BTW, is in keeping with the time-honored European tradition of getting the best available parts within the available budget, rather than everything from the same brand or country.

The '84 Competition 12, which came with a Cyclone transmission, was originally spec'ed with Weinmann brakes, but production soon switched to Shimano 600. The example in the foreground still has the Weinmann brakes, the one in the background is two months younger and sports Shimano 600:

rustystrings61 

The 1976 Puch Royal X came stock with 1st generation Shimano Dura-Ace cranks, BB & headset, SunTour Cyclone derailleurs with Power Ratchet dt shifters and Regina Oro chain and 5-speed freewheel, Weinmann Carrera sidepulls, Normandy Luxe Competition hubs and Weinmann 27-in rims - mine shown below currently wears a late 70s 600EX rear mech and a SunTour Ultra 6-speed freewheel.

One rung higher on the Puch hierarchy was the Royal Force with a full Dura-Ace - except I think they also had the Regina chain and freewheel.

masi61

Not from the factory but I built up this NOS Cannondale R1000/CAAD3 frame up with Shimano Dura Ace 7403 dual pivot side pull brakes, a Shimano Dura Ace 7410 crankset and SunTour Command 8 speed accushift paddle shifters with an XC Pro short cage rear derailleur and a SunTour XCD front derailleur. The rear hub is a SunTour Superbe 8 speed cassette with 1st generation cassette. The headset is a threaded “Ritchey WCS” but identical to the Ultegra 6500 cartridge bearing threaded headset from the 90’s

Hudson308 

'73-75 Schwinn Voyageur and Sports Tourer came with (Schwinn branded) Shimano derailleurs, and could be ordered with (Schwinn branded) Suntour barcons. The Voyageur also came with Dura-Ace cranks.

CycleryNorth81

Very interesting pictures. I guess the bike makers had no problem mixing and matching parts. I did not know they were even mixing asian and european parts.

canklecat

For 1993, Trek spec'd the 5900 OCLV for the lightest practical components, regardless of manufacturer. So the original was a hodge podge of brands: Shimano Dura-Ace group (mostly); Dia Compe brakes; Hugi alloy cassette; Chris King headset; White titanium bottom bracket; Ibis titanium stem; American Classic micro-adjust titanium seat post. Probably the first production bike to reach 17 lbs.

My new-to-me early '90s Trekenstein 5900 wears and even more eclectic ensemble of doodads. A friend only wanted the Dura Ace components. I only wanted the frame. But he put it back together in a thoroughly enjoyable and eccentric bike bazaar of bits and bobs. It has some Shimano 600 group components, Nitto B65LL handlebar (love this bar, classic curves plus it's compact without looking too contemporary), Biopace chainrings (hey, I kinda like 'em), Wolber Alpine rims with Shimano freewheel, etc. And it still has the original headset and BB, Ibis titanium stem, American Classic seat post, etc. Probably weighs about 20 lbs now, with pedals -- my scale isn't very accurate, but 20 lbs seems about right.

I get a kick out of watching other cyclists trying to figure out what year it is. Most of them guess late 1990s, but the classic curved fork is the giveaway -- from an era when cyclists hadn't fully accepted carbon fiber so Trek made the CF forks look traditional and kept the frame lines classic, 'tho' noticeably fatter.

And it's purple.

I approve of this chaos. I may rename the bike Eris.

When indexed shifting rolled around, only the drivetrain stuff -- mainly the shifters, derailleurs, freewheel/cassette, chain -- needed to be matched to ensure compatibility. The rest was less critical and could be selected to achieve either maximum performance or a price point.

Most 1980s mid-priced road bikes like the Centurion Ironman were spec'd with drivetrains that were all Shimano or all Suntour, for indexed shifting compatibility. The other components might be from the same group, but didn't need to be. And headsets, bottom brackets, stems, handlebars, seat posts and clamps, even hubs, could often be from various manufacturers that fit a price point without compromising too much on performance.

And 1970s and earlier road bikes with friction shifting could be originally spec'd with a seemingly random set of components, although Suntour and Shimano carved out a niche with reliable and affordable alternative groups. Some of the cheap European made derailleurs on early 1970s bikes were pretty awful. I had a 1970s Motobecane Nomade with a rear derailleur (Huret? I don't remember) that could not be adjusted to shift reliably across the entire range. My 1975 or '76 Motobecane Mirage had a mostly-Suntour group that performed very well for low/mid-range components.

Just guessing, but it seems like Shimano's improvements to the Dura Ace group by the 1980s made American cyclists more gruppo-conscious and a bit pretentious as they finally got an alternative to Campagnolo that they didn't have to sound apologetic about.



1993 Trek catalog. Doesn't list the complete components, which were an eccentric mix for the 5900, in the interest of minimum weight.

zukahn1 

During the 80's Trek had a lot of models that mixed US, French and Japanese both Shimano & Suntour on the same bike.

The Golden Boy 

Until Shimano forced the group concept with things like SIS and SLR that won’t play well with others or without it’s own parts- “matching” was a matter of functional preference and aesthetics.

That line of thought has become so ingrained- the concept of a bike put together with a combination of the coolest parts without regards to manufacturer is considered more of a DIY Frankenbike than a well thought out combination of parts.


That makes me wonder what were the last high end stock “eclectic mix” bikes...

The 1985 Trek 720 had a huge smattering of everything all over it- Gran Compe brake levers mated to XT brakes, Suntour Shifters mated to Sachs/Huret rear and Simplex front derailleurs, Cimelli stem and bars, Maillard hubs mated to Matrix rims, SR pedals and seat post, finished with Jim Blackburn racks and cages and topped by a Brooks saddle.

79pmooney

I got my '73 bare frame and it had Heuret dropouts. Also the skinny, flexy butted chainstays Reynolds drew exclusively for Raleigh in the '50s for a super comfortable ride (and wet noodle BB stiffness).

There are high standards and low standards. Raleigh makes bikes to many standards. English, French, Japanese, Belgian ...

Ben

DorkDisk

On the MTB side, Kona specced XC Pro 8sp thumbies with the rest being Shimano. Those thumbies are highly sought after today

I do run Suntour thumbies on a Shimano drivetrain, but its quite unremarkable so a photo is not necessary

The Golden Boy 

Do you have a catalog showing that?

With Suntour's service manuals completely admitting that Accushift really only works good within itself, and my experience with Accushift and trying to integrate Shimano components, and with the hundreds of online accounts of difficulties of getting Accushift components to play well with any other components- I find it hard to believe that any bike manufacturer would intentionally spec components that don't work together, or don't work well together.

zukahn1 

Those Shimano compatible 8spd thumbies are somewhat rare Suntour only made them for 1 or 2 years towards the end of there run.

DorkDisk

The remarkable thing was that this was in 95, so it was among the last thumbshifter spec, as well as the last XC Pro spec.




I heard of the supposed incompatibilities but my 7sp setup works great.

canklecat

I think I spy with an envious eye an Ibis titanium stem.

This only whets my appetite for a vintage Kona. I missed my chance at a rigid fork Lava Dome Race Light a few months ago. Purty emerald green thing. Mostly original, but comically converted to an errand bike with handlebar basket and seatpost mounted rear rack. It found a new owner while I was hemming and hawing over price.

DorkDisk

Those old Konas are sure nice, and that Hei has great spec. However, I believe that it is a Control Tech stem

The Golden Boy 

That is absolutely amazing!

So that's running XC Pro RD, XTR derailleurs and XTR cassette?

DorkDisk

I think you meant XC Pro shifters. Yes, you are correct.

It also had Cook E cranks, Machine Tech cantis, and Huegi hubs - truly a dream build at the time. Anti-Shimano sentiment was high and a "Made in USA" build kit was the coolest thing one could have. You can see that sentiment in the ad print. It was also the last year for brake noodles (cantis) and threaded headsets - truly the pinnacle of retro IMO.

Thanks to Kona for keeping thumbies alive until the bitter end, I still havent forgotten you.

Here is a shot of their 94 spec sheet where XC Pro shifters were used throughout the line.