wahoonc

maybe in Toronto but not in the middle sized town USA. The only "walkable" condo's that I can find in any city within a reasonable radius of my office are all $200k usd and up. People will pay for cars because they don't have any other choice. Also what do you plan to do if your job suddenly packs up and is shipped off somewhere else and there is no work with in your "walkable" area? I have been in that situation! I lived car free/light for over 12 years, one day my job left for Mexico (ironically that plant has now left for China) I was unable to find any job that paid close to what I was making in the same town and was forced to take what I could find, and unfortunately it required driving.

Aaron

littledog

The part of town that I live in is affordable. One of the reasons it is cheap is that there is no place for a renter to park a car. I am mentally disabled but I can walk or ride my bike. Yet I was hit by a SUV while crossing the street with the walk lighttwo weeks ago Also two of my friends have been hit by cars this past winter. One was walking in the street as the sidewalks are plowed over with snow from the street. The other friend was also crossing with the light in the crosswalk and a UPS truck slid out of control on the ice and hit him and shattered his leg.

We all live in crime infested areas where people get robbed in broad daylight. In fact a friend of mine was hit in the head in a robbery and fell over,hit his head and died. This happened a year and a half ago just a hundred feet from the entrance to my apartment building building on a sunny morning as he was walking to the grocery store.

None of us can afford cars. Many people with cars avoid this area like the plauge for good reason. So even walking to the store or a bus stop can be dangerous. Yet on a disability check you live where you can afford to live.

Some mentally disabled people can drive safely. Some can not. Just like psysically disabled people. If you cannot afford a car it is a moot point.

If gas was made more costly a lot of the people in my area that do work need a car as the bus service is very limited for people that work nights and weekends. This would put them out of work and they would lose their house or apartment. I suppose they could turn to crime,selling drugs or living in the Mission. Losing a job can often mean the break up of the family as well.

I believe in lowering green house emissions. As well as more people bike riding or walking. Poor bus service,long winters,lousy drivers and crime are part of a older,somewhat walkable neighborhood though. Not all people can afford to have cars,even now. Why make it harder for them and their families?

Elkhound

Several people on this thread seem to have only a limited idea of how the world works outside of their comfortable little corner of it.

Brian

I was going to reply to a couple of their posts, but your post seems to sum it up quite nicely. Please note that the following comments are certainly not directed at you.

Not every neighborhood or community is laid out to be convenient for non-motorists. That will not change overnight.

We don't always have the option of living close to work, especially those of us with specialized job skills. If there is no acceptable housing near the hospital, should a doctor choose a different line of work?

Not everyone that drives an SUV or even a car is worried about gas prices. There are plenty of people making enough money to shrug it off. The recent increases have cost me and my wife about an extra $6 each week in gas. Ho hum. But we've watched our weekly grocery bill steadily increase a lot more than that $6. Raise the cost of gas, and sure, I can use my car less. But what is the car-free person going to do - eat less?

Fable

To the OP. You would like to see cars and car lifestyle items priced out of everyones grasp huh? Well, here is what I would like. I would like to see you tortured to death. Your views do not mirror my own and as such I feel the need to impose my tyrannical willl over your day to day decisions. It's too bad we all can't get what we want or you'd be in a lot of pain right about now. I would also like to see food abolished because some people eat to much of it and become fat. Fat people are gross and clearly not fit for society. You are a huge moron.

Brian

Normally, I would say this post is not appropriate. But I suspect this is a bit of tongue in cheek sarcasm. And, you totally forgot about smokers. I think that if someone is caught throwing a cigarette from a car, they should be shot. Seriously.

El Julioso

Wow. Peace and love, people.

The consequences of building societies utterly dependent on finite and polluting resources will catch up with the western world regardless of what bickering takes place on Bike Forums. It's beginning to do so already. As I said a long time ago in this thread, artificially inflating prices is unnecessary - the consequences will be the same either way. Although I do hope that more people will abandon their myopic view of economics and start advocating solutions which will be beneficial in the long-term.

wahoonc

If not shot at least pay for the damage they do when a wild fire starts...maybe we should sue the tobacco companies for environmental damage and property damage caused by careless smokers then they could pass it on to the smokes in increased prices and surcharges

Aaron

Brian

No, shot. Nothing less. As I left the grocery store today, a lady tossed her butt in the parking lot before climbing into her (entry level) Jaguar S-Type. Apparently, the whole entire world isn't as important as the inside of her car. A shot to the head, tow it, drain the fluids, crush it. Seems reasonable to me.

mattotoole

I disagree. When it's too expensive (or otherwise difficult) to drive long distances, businesses will move closer to where the people are, and there will be plenty of new construction. But instead of sprawl, it will be in-fill.

I watched this happen in southern CA over the last 20 years. What was once sprawl that required driving 10 miles to buy a toothbrush, is now neighborhoods with shopping and offices within a mile or two of just about anyone.

Old inner city neighborhood centers are coming back everywhere too.

mattotoole

So we should just forget the whole thing? C'mon. We're not going to cure cancer overnight either, but we make progress in treating it every year.

CliftonGK1

I haven't seen anyone saying to scrap the whole idea, put prohibitive pricing (if implemented immediately) would be an overnight change which current populations would not effectively adapt to. If there's a gradual shift in population vs. business centers as the price of fuel continues to rise, then it becomes a more manageable situation.

Since moving to Seattle I've always lived in a walking neighbourhood. Very few essential services were more than a mile away, and I could ride my bike to everything I needed. Even now, living further out from town than before, I don't consider the 5 mile ride to get to town as an excessive amount of riding for errands that I can't do at the two business parks within a mile and a half of my apartment. (Although, some medical services are up to a 10 mile ride due to my preference in doctors and who's in my insurance network.)
What really surprises me is the low amount of bicycle traffic to either of these plazas, considering all the accommodations for cyclists in my neighbourhood: Wide bike lanes, paved off-street paths, ample bicycle parking, etc.

mattotoole

Subsidized or not, these services will crop up to fill the need.

The increasing population of potential shut-ins is not hypothetical, it's real. All we hear about are boomers approaching retirement! There's a huge demographic bulge that will be elderly in a few years. This is the target of the new mixed-use communities popping up all over the US, such as the Market Common here in Myrtle Beach. It's also where the resurgence in downtown living is coming from (20-30-somethings cannot afford $500k downtown condos, but empty nesters sure can). Also college towns, which attract a lot of retirees because of their compact, walkable nature, public transportation, and cultural amenities.

mattotoole

Absolutely. Y'all need to get out more, and see how the rest of the world works! And it does work!

CliftonGK1

Being elderly or retired doesn't make someone a shut-in, though.
The area where I live has 2 large 55+ communities and a 3rd one is being built right now. They're not walking communities by any stretch, but they're certainly convenience located in relation to the shopping centers. It's no more than a couple miles for the furthest residents to get to the nearest necessities. What really surprises me, since one of these neighbourhoods is a golf community, is that there are no facilities for golf cart parking at the plaza directly across from the neighbourhood/course. Don't quite a few retirement/golf communities make cart provisions for residents?

gwd

I haven't followed the thread but here in DC some organizations are implementing small inconveniences. The Smithsonian Museums used to open parking garages to the public, now they suggest that the public use public transport instead. This year at the cherry blossom festival the park service closed off the parking lot nearest the tidal basin and made it a vendor picnic table area. The park service shunted car drivers to other parking lots and provided shuttle service. I'm pretty sure some car people thought to themselves: "We should've taken the subway." as they waited in the chilly air for the shuttle bus out on Hains point. They had bike valet parking too.

cowtown_cowboy

I've heard of people getting payday loans, selling their tv's, raman noodles for a week, - just to kepp the car running...so sad

Roody

Zheeesh.

You're just being coy and silly. There is absolutely NOTHING in my post implying that I want, or think there will ever be, a return to horses. Try to keep it real, Elkhound.

Roody

You believe that current increases in food prices are unrelated to rises in fuel prices? That's charmingly naive.

Roody

Gas prices WILL continue to rise. There isn't one economist left in the world who believes otherwise. This will hurt a lot of people very much. As pointed out in this thread, some who will be hurt the most include the handicapped, the elderly, and country dwellers. I add that others who will be disproportionately hurt are poor families and people who live in inner city areas that are underserved by supermarkets and public transit.

The only silver lining that I can see is that, as people are forced to buy less gas, additional resources will be available for retooling the infrastructure and expanding public transit. In the meantime, it will be a simple matter to provide tax credits or other subsidies to those who can't use public transit as it currently exists, enabling them to continue using private automobiles if they have to.

Of course, Republicans will oppose this because it benefits people with lower incomes, but maybe yhey can get over themselves when things get to a crisis stage.

Brian

It would be impolite of me to suggest that you have a reading comprehension issue.

Brian

No sadder than the state of our education system, don't you think?

Roody

But cheeky impoliteness is the other half of your charm!

Actually, I reread your post and you didn't actually say that the costs of fuel and food were unrelated. Sorry!

alhanson

on that note, the new baseball stadium has bike valet also.

alhanson

sorry forgot the quote. This was in response to the blossom fest here in DC