MaceUp!
01-10-17, 10:29 PM
#26
Galveston County Texas
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I had an incident where an irate dog owner was hostel about my buddy spraying his aggressive dog.
I felt helpless as I was on a trike.
So now I carry a 380 on the trike.
I felt helpless as I was on a trike.
So now I carry a 380 on the trike.
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Fred "The Real Fred"
Fred "The Real Fred"
01-10-17, 11:11 PM
#27
Its all about the cruise
When I saw the title of this thread I immediately thought "dogs" cause ive had several dog run ins thru my life, mostly on bikes. Where I ride I would not think of using mace or having any "weapon" on me. Im sure I could come up with some defense if necessary.
There's something about a dog chasing a bike. Even if he doesn't get close its still a thrill of sort lol...Especially when they are coming down at you from a hill out of nowhere lol. I wouldn't use mace on a dog in that situation, I would just put my foot to its jaw...Its all about timing and lining it up lol. Bigger dogs like boxers and pits are at a pretty good height for lining it up right. Dont worry you wont hurt the dog just kick it enough to send a message lol.
There's something about a dog chasing a bike. Even if he doesn't get close its still a thrill of sort lol...Especially when they are coming down at you from a hill out of nowhere lol. I wouldn't use mace on a dog in that situation, I would just put my foot to its jaw...Its all about timing and lining it up lol. Bigger dogs like boxers and pits are at a pretty good height for lining it up right. Dont worry you wont hurt the dog just kick it enough to send a message lol.
01-10-17, 11:17 PM
#28
- Soli Deo Gloria -
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That depends on the type of spray.
CN and older style CS sprays are tear gas. These can be ineffective on someone who has a diminished ability to feel pain such as someone on drugs.
OC style capsicum pepper sprays act differently and are much more effective. These cause blindness, choking, coughing and loss of breath apart from the pain. An attacker who can't see or breathe is much less likely to continue the attack.
Most of the reports we hear of people on drugs not being stopped by sprays are older style CN/CS sprays. OC pepper sprays are much more effective. Unfortunately the media and people in general lump CN, CS and OC sprays into one "Pepper spray" category and mistakenly think that OC style sprays are ineffective.
-Tim-
CN and older style CS sprays are tear gas. These can be ineffective on someone who has a diminished ability to feel pain such as someone on drugs.
OC style capsicum pepper sprays act differently and are much more effective. These cause blindness, choking, coughing and loss of breath apart from the pain. An attacker who can't see or breathe is much less likely to continue the attack.
Most of the reports we hear of people on drugs not being stopped by sprays are older style CN/CS sprays. OC pepper sprays are much more effective. Unfortunately the media and people in general lump CN, CS and OC sprays into one "Pepper spray" category and mistakenly think that OC style sprays are ineffective.
-Tim-
Last edited by TimothyH; 01-11-17 at 09:35 AM.
01-10-17, 11:34 PM
#29
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I'm not sure this is correct.
I believe it is legal to buy and carry OC (capsicum) based prays but that the spray is restricted to 10% OC concentration, cannot contain dye, cannot be camouflaged and maybe some other things I can't remember right now.
If you are interested in carrying then I would encourage you to check again.
-Tim-
I believe it is legal to buy and carry OC (capsicum) based prays but that the spray is restricted to 10% OC concentration, cannot contain dye, cannot be camouflaged and maybe some other things I can't remember right now.
If you are interested in carrying then I would encourage you to check again.
-Tim-
01-11-17, 12:09 AM
#30
What happened?
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If he knocked out the tooth with the cavity it would be a service.
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01-11-17, 12:26 AM
#31
Senior Member
I used to be a police officer, and often encountered belligerent drivers on my morning or weekend rides. I didn't carry mace, I carried a Kahr K9 pistol, though I never had show it.
It is quite funny to see the look on the face of a shouting idiot change when you show them a badge and police ID. They go from hot and angry to scared ****less, and apologetic. I would order them out of their car, make them sit on the sidewalk, and call the local police to come by and give them as much **** as they could. On occasion these people were driving without a license, or had an active arrest warrant, and I had the pleasure of seeing them cuffed and taken away, and their cars impounded.
I am glad now that I live in Japan, where road rage is almost unheard of, and where incidents involving cars and pedestrians or cyclists are automatically blamed on the car drivers.
It is quite funny to see the look on the face of a shouting idiot change when you show them a badge and police ID. They go from hot and angry to scared ****less, and apologetic. I would order them out of their car, make them sit on the sidewalk, and call the local police to come by and give them as much **** as they could. On occasion these people were driving without a license, or had an active arrest warrant, and I had the pleasure of seeing them cuffed and taken away, and their cars impounded.
I am glad now that I live in Japan, where road rage is almost unheard of, and where incidents involving cars and pedestrians or cyclists are automatically blamed on the car drivers.
01-11-17, 12:56 AM
#32
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+1 for Japan.
You can also get some neato sleeves for bear spray so the can fits into a water bottle holder, makes it real easy and instinctive to reach.
You can also get some neato sleeves for bear spray so the can fits into a water bottle holder, makes it real easy and instinctive to reach.
01-11-17, 01:10 AM
#33
Tractorlegs
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That depends on the type of spray.
CN and older style CS sprays are tear gas. These can be ineffective on someone who has a diminished ability to feel pain such as someone on drugs.
OC style capsicum pepper sprays act differently and are much more effective. These cause blindness, choking, coughing and loss of breath apart from the pain. An attacker who can't see or breath is much less likely to continue the attack.
Most of the reports we hear of people on drugs not being stopped by sprays are older style CN/CS sprays. OC pepper sprays are much more effective. Unfortunately the media and people in general lump CN, CS and OC sprays into one "Pepper spray" category and mistakenly think that OC style sprays are ineffective.
-Tim-
CN and older style CS sprays are tear gas. These can be ineffective on someone who has a diminished ability to feel pain such as someone on drugs.
OC style capsicum pepper sprays act differently and are much more effective. These cause blindness, choking, coughing and loss of breath apart from the pain. An attacker who can't see or breath is much less likely to continue the attack.
Most of the reports we hear of people on drugs not being stopped by sprays are older style CN/CS sprays. OC pepper sprays are much more effective. Unfortunately the media and people in general lump CN, CS and OC sprays into one "Pepper spray" category and mistakenly think that OC style sprays are ineffective.
-Tim-
01-11-17, 09:46 AM
#34
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Keep in mind as well that the term "Mace" can be confusing. I think that is the brand you purchased?
Mace was the trademark name given to CS tear gas which is no longer used. The term Mace now refers to the company by that name which produces CN tear gas spray, OC pepper spray and combination CN/OC spray. Mace is now a brand, not a type of spray.
Have a look at Sabre pepper gel. I carry the smaller runners pepper gel minus the holder in my jersey pocket or front jacket pocket. A friend carries the larger tactical canister on his handlebar. Gel has much less overspray or blowback and so is much safer when riding with a group.
I can tell you from experience that it stops a pit bull instantly.
-Tim-
Mace was the trademark name given to CS tear gas which is no longer used. The term Mace now refers to the company by that name which produces CN tear gas spray, OC pepper spray and combination CN/OC spray. Mace is now a brand, not a type of spray.
Have a look at Sabre pepper gel. I carry the smaller runners pepper gel minus the holder in my jersey pocket or front jacket pocket. A friend carries the larger tactical canister on his handlebar. Gel has much less overspray or blowback and so is much safer when riding with a group.
I can tell you from experience that it stops a pit bull instantly.
-Tim-
01-11-17, 10:54 AM
#36
Senior Member
My wife carries citronella spray for dogs. I heard it works better than pepper spray.
I don't carry a weapon when riding. I rely on the bike to get me out of sticky situations - been lucky so far.
I don't carry a weapon when riding. I rely on the bike to get me out of sticky situations - been lucky so far.
01-11-17, 11:36 AM
#37
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I was an amateur boxer and when I was younger was in more unsanctioned scraps and scuffles than I care to remember. And I finally learned to avoid conflict and deescalate tension rather than relying on physical combat techniques.
The only thing I carry that might be considered a weapon is a pocket knife that has a short blade with no pointed tip -- it's basically a fancypants box cutter, which is how I've used it for 10 years. I'm not sure I'd even remember to use it as a weapon in an emergency. It's just a handy tool.
I've considered carrying pepper spray for dogs, but usually I can avoid trouble with them. Even recently when a large dog kept body slamming me (I was walking home) I remained calm, focusing on maintaining my balance and keeping my emotions under control while the incompetent owner kept yelling at the dog and trying ineffectually to get it back in its own yard. If I'd had pepper spray or a gun I probably would have used it. It really was that tense for about 60 seconds, with the dog trying to escalate the conflict but not actually biting. In retrospect I'm glad I wasn't armed because while I would have been within my rights to defend myself, it still would have been a bad choice. As it turned out it was just another irresponsible dog owner who knew how to apologize for the inconvenience but not how to actually train and discipline a dog.
I feel the same way about people. I'd rather not harm another human being if I can avoid it. I have no sense of ego about conflicts anymore -- got all that out of my system years ago. If I can back away, or walk away (at my age and with bum knees, I don't run very well), and let the other person say whatever they want, that's fine with me.
I shrug off 99.99% of the incidents I encounter while bicycling in traffic. Usually it's just inattention, not deliberate. The very few drivers who've been deliberately aggressive were only honking or yelling ineffectually from a safe distance, usually at least two lanes away. That's not an assault and not worth getting worked up over. I would report a deliberately or reckless aggressive driver, and have done so only once in the past year and a half since I resumed cycling (an impatient Domino's delivery driver who passed me on a no-turn lane and left-hooked me -- I was satisfied with the response from the store manager and national safety hotline).
Unless the other person physically assaults me, nothing worse will happen if I have any choice in the matter.
If you do learn any self defense techniques, be sure to emphasize deflecting attempts to injure you, rather than trying to inflict damage on another person. It isn't always necessary to disable an opponent to deescalate a conflict, although that's what most YouTube wannabes emphasize.
And self defense techniques to deescalate conflict should include emphasis on your demeanor, attitude, words, body language -- everything that communicates something to the other person. Often our overall demeanor can reduce the risk of any conflict from occurring to begin with.
The only thing I carry that might be considered a weapon is a pocket knife that has a short blade with no pointed tip -- it's basically a fancypants box cutter, which is how I've used it for 10 years. I'm not sure I'd even remember to use it as a weapon in an emergency. It's just a handy tool.
I've considered carrying pepper spray for dogs, but usually I can avoid trouble with them. Even recently when a large dog kept body slamming me (I was walking home) I remained calm, focusing on maintaining my balance and keeping my emotions under control while the incompetent owner kept yelling at the dog and trying ineffectually to get it back in its own yard. If I'd had pepper spray or a gun I probably would have used it. It really was that tense for about 60 seconds, with the dog trying to escalate the conflict but not actually biting. In retrospect I'm glad I wasn't armed because while I would have been within my rights to defend myself, it still would have been a bad choice. As it turned out it was just another irresponsible dog owner who knew how to apologize for the inconvenience but not how to actually train and discipline a dog.
I feel the same way about people. I'd rather not harm another human being if I can avoid it. I have no sense of ego about conflicts anymore -- got all that out of my system years ago. If I can back away, or walk away (at my age and with bum knees, I don't run very well), and let the other person say whatever they want, that's fine with me.
I shrug off 99.99% of the incidents I encounter while bicycling in traffic. Usually it's just inattention, not deliberate. The very few drivers who've been deliberately aggressive were only honking or yelling ineffectually from a safe distance, usually at least two lanes away. That's not an assault and not worth getting worked up over. I would report a deliberately or reckless aggressive driver, and have done so only once in the past year and a half since I resumed cycling (an impatient Domino's delivery driver who passed me on a no-turn lane and left-hooked me -- I was satisfied with the response from the store manager and national safety hotline).
Unless the other person physically assaults me, nothing worse will happen if I have any choice in the matter.
If you do learn any self defense techniques, be sure to emphasize deflecting attempts to injure you, rather than trying to inflict damage on another person. It isn't always necessary to disable an opponent to deescalate a conflict, although that's what most YouTube wannabes emphasize.
And self defense techniques to deescalate conflict should include emphasis on your demeanor, attitude, words, body language -- everything that communicates something to the other person. Often our overall demeanor can reduce the risk of any conflict from occurring to begin with.
01-11-17, 12:06 PM
#38
Erik the Inveigler
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I never used to carry anything with me when I lived in the SF bay area, having been the ultra weight-weenie that I was. Since moving up into the Sierras I've had a couple of dicey experiences with the rednecks and tweekers and their pitbulls up here, so I usually carry a small Spyderco knife. But now that I seem to be turning into a Fred and plan to actually have a bike with a rack on it, I will start carrying my big Gerber LMF!
Last edited by Scarbo; 01-11-17 at 12:13 PM.
01-11-17, 12:27 PM
#39
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+1. While it's hard for a trademark owner to lose it's right due to a term becoming generic, it can happen. (Escalator, cellophane and thermos are examples.) That's why you hear the following phrase in Jeep commercials: "Jeep is a registered trademark of" whatever Chrysler is called today. It's also why you hear "Band-Aid brand plastic strips." But ask yourself when is that last time you cut your finger and asked someone if they had a "plastic strip"?
01-11-17, 12:36 PM
#40
Senior Member
I a 357 magnum revolver, but don't carry anymore. I just avoid the bad places. Avoid being alone. Avoid riding pass someone too close: he could act casual but turn at the last second and smack you off your bike and proceed to pummel you on the ground. If someone tries to walk close to you, walk away or keep an eye on 'em...they might turn around and attack after they walk pass you. If they attack, I'll dodge the first blow and run or bike away as fast as possible. I'm suspcious of everyone I meet on the trail. Don't talk to strangers. Walk away if a stranger approach and ask for directions: could be a trick to get you to let your guard down. Keep awareness: there might be multiple attacker trying to surround you when one distract you. Run, run, run, or get your stand ground and get mentally ready to fisticuffs, could get very ugly. I think if you're mentally prepared for the worst case scenario, you'll be alright, hopefully just a few scratches. I goes without saying, don't get distracted by things like sounding to music or playing with your phone.
Last edited by mtb_addict; 01-11-17 at 01:05 PM.
01-11-17, 04:54 PM
#41
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01-11-17, 05:59 PM
#42
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For those who say, "I don't need protection, I use my head and keep a look out for trouble" probably have never been a victim of a assault.
I'm 50, well educated and like to think I have a lot of common sense, but there's not enough brains or street smarts in the world to avoid a blindside attack. I was riding on a sunny afternoon through a really "good part of town", when without any warning, some thug decided he wanted my bike and hit me over the head with a large branch from an oak tree. I fought him off using my bike lock, but I really wish I'd have had my pepper spray.
I'm 50, well educated and like to think I have a lot of common sense, but there's not enough brains or street smarts in the world to avoid a blindside attack. I was riding on a sunny afternoon through a really "good part of town", when without any warning, some thug decided he wanted my bike and hit me over the head with a large branch from an oak tree. I fought him off using my bike lock, but I really wish I'd have had my pepper spray.
01-11-17, 06:00 PM
#43
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Got the 2nd 2 down!
01-11-17, 06:12 PM
#44
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Halt for dogs and pepper spray for human miscreants.
I've used the Halt once, and it worked OK. Haven't needed the pepper spray yet and hope I never do.
I've used the Halt once, and it worked OK. Haven't needed the pepper spray yet and hope I never do.
01-11-17, 06:52 PM
#45
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Hell yes I do ! Last April I was violently attacked on the local MUP, multiple facial fractures, broken jaw, and collapsed nasal cavity. Ended up with two plates in my face holding my orbital socket in place. I was able to fight them off on my own, but now I carry mace, and have baton mounted in a old air pump holder. Still ride the same route, but my head is on a swivel, and if anyone raises a red flag, I just turn around or go another route. I no longer have the trust I once had for the fellow man.
If singing Kumbaya doesn't work, my S&W 642 just might. "Why does that guy wear a belt pack on a bike?"
01-11-17, 07:22 PM
#46
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I personally know 2 guys, a dentist and an airline pilot, who were beaten so badly they were forced to retire from their professions. Both were in their 50's, both incidents were on local MUP's.
If singing Kumbaya doesn't work, my S&W 642 just might. "Why does that guy wear a belt pack on a bike?"
If singing Kumbaya doesn't work, my S&W 642 just might. "Why does that guy wear a belt pack on a bike?"
01-11-17, 09:06 PM
#47
Erik the Inveigler
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I personally know 2 guys, a dentist and an airline pilot, who were beaten so badly they were forced to retire from their professions. Both were in their 50's, both incidents were on local MUP's.
If singing Kumbaya doesn't work, my S&W 642 just might. "Why does that guy wear a belt pack on a bike?"
If singing Kumbaya doesn't work, my S&W 642 just might. "Why does that guy wear a belt pack on a bike?"
01-11-17, 10:06 PM
#48
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I carry no weapons.... either defensive or offensive.
Although I have considered carrying some sort of protection.... I also believe that in most cases... pocket knifes, and pepper spray are just feel good items. I am older now-a-days... and beginning to realize that I am looked at more as an elderly man... than a tough guy. So... it wouldn't be all bad to strap a can of Mace to my bike... and tell myself it would also be good for dogs. It would likely make me feel better.
I ride where I chose to. And some areas are a little sketchy. So there have been times I've wondered about just how safe I am. I know there is much more crime of the MUPs than is generally well known.
Although I have considered carrying some sort of protection.... I also believe that in most cases... pocket knifes, and pepper spray are just feel good items. I am older now-a-days... and beginning to realize that I am looked at more as an elderly man... than a tough guy. So... it wouldn't be all bad to strap a can of Mace to my bike... and tell myself it would also be good for dogs. It would likely make me feel better.
I ride where I chose to. And some areas are a little sketchy. So there have been times I've wondered about just how safe I am. I know there is much more crime of the MUPs than is generally well known.
01-12-17, 05:31 AM
#49
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Pepper spray is illegal in Wisconsin.
Part of my training for working in in-patient locked psychiatric wards was "Management Of Aggressive Behaviors (MOAB). I haven't had to use it yet, either at work or outside of work.
Part of my training for working in in-patient locked psychiatric wards was "Management Of Aggressive Behaviors (MOAB). I haven't had to use it yet, either at work or outside of work.
In Plain English:
Wisconsin state laws for pepper spray & self defense products
The Basics:
- Pepper spray canisters must be less than 2 oz.
- Pepper spray must be 10% or less O.C. (Oleoresin Capsicum) concentration.
- Pepper spray cannot be disguised as a common item (i.e. lipsticks, pens, etc.).
- Must be a minimum of 18 years old.
- Cannot have any convicted felonies on record.
- [NOTE] Stun guns are not legal to use, carry or ship to Wisconsin.
Pepper spray is the only self defense spray you can legally carry in Wisconsin. Anything containing traditional mace (not including "Mace" the brand) or tear gas is not legal for the public, even if it’s mixed with pepper spray. The legal ingredient of pepper spray is Oleoresin Capsicum, (OC) the oil derived from the hot pepper. Although you may find some stronger concentrations online, Wisconsin laws state that the strongest concentration of OC used in Wisconsin is 10% -- more than plenty to stop an attack from a human being.
Police sprays often contain ultraviolet (U.V) dyes, so if a suspect manages to escape, he can be identified by the dye marks on the face. The canister must hold less than 2.1 ounces (60 grams) of spray and must have a safety feature like a flip top cap.
01-12-17, 06:55 AM
#50
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I've thought a lot about self-defense both on and off the bike. And, especially lately when a dirt biker threatened a friend of mine with a gun on a rail-trail. This same biker went on to shoot and kill a father of two about a month later. He was eventually arrested. Over the years I have carried a .380 Glock. And, these days I carry it on rail-trail and road solo rides or when it's just me and my gf. I do not carry on rides with others. My "rules" are...never, EVER display a firearm unless you are in danger of losing your life or if someone else is about to lose theirs. Avoid conflict at all costs. Run or ride away and call 911. If you do show your weapon because you are in imminent danger, you MUST be willing to use it. This is all horrible stuff to have to think about but it's also a reality unfortunately.