Kimmo

Yes and no...

I'd say there's a fairly strong correlation between $500 to $1.5k or so.

Above that, it depends what you're spending the money on, sure. Aero, discs, Italian steel or OTOH, Meilensteins, etc. And if you bring second-hand gear into the equation, your luck/patience/connections can certainly matter more.

Certainly if you want to get much under 6.5kg it gets spendy fast, no matter what.

1500SLR

Yeah, cheaper bikes tend to be made out of lower quality metal that's a given. We're talking road bikes so you can discount other factors hat different types of bikes will have different weights, even so. In a most general sense you may ge a lighter bike by paying more. On the other hand you can simply play more for a hand built steel frame. While there are some light steel frames you will pay a ridiculous amount of money to build a steel frame bike as light as a carbon one.

Kimmo

Does anybody even build a carbon frame that weighs 1.5kg? Do steel frames get any lighter than that?

1500SLR

You can get a carbon frame that weighs 900grams.

Pedal Force super-light carbon bicycle

There are frames from common bike brands such as Cinelli that are steel that weigh under 1.5kg

https://dropouts.cc/product/cinelli-xcr-frameset/

rubiksoval

If you're not even going to ride it, why keep that Mt. Everest-like stack of spacers on there? What an eyesore!

1500SLR

Here's a 6.6kg steel frame bike build.

https://cyclingtips.com/2015/08/bike...h-cinelli-xcr/

Kimmo

Yeah, you can get carbon frames as light as 600g, and ally at 900.

What I meant is, is the heaviest carbon as heavy as the lightest steel? 1.3kg is heavy for carbon.

1500SLR

It doesn't really matter. If you can't legally race it then you can't legally race it.

noodle soup

who said anything about racing?

Seattle Forrest

I'm a little jealous. That's a really good solution.

Is that on your R3 because of BBRight?

Still, my point stands: even if it's only 50 g, you paid extra to put another 50 g on your bike. I paid extra to weigh my pedals down by something like 200 g more than they need to be for the same reason: it's worth it. But you can't predict the weight of a bike from its price.

DrIsotope

Yeah, there aren't a ton of options out there for BBRight-- most everything requires changing out the BB to an adapter of some sort, and at that I'd be stuck with a Rotor 3D+ crankset that fits a handful of bikes. I got doubly lucky because power2max was clearing out the Type S meters when I bought mine, so it was under $500.

As to predicting a bike's weight from it's pricetag... sorta. Like anything else, there's a diminishing point of returns. We generally and correctly assume that a $1,000 bike is going to be lighter than a $300 bike-- and that differential may be on the order of a few pounds. But a $3000 bike compared to a $1000 bike, the difference may be on the order of a few ounces.

Plus, adding weight with things like power meters gives us an excuse to justify buying dumb ultralight things (like carbon fiber bottle cages) to theoretically offset the weight we paid to put on.

phtomita

Curious on the meaning of the 'frame'. When we say frame weight are we talking about the diamond frame alone, or it includes diamond frame + fork + headset?

When I weighted my Tri-A when rebuilding it came out 2.806kg (diamond frame + fork + headset). Super happy with bike overall.

noodle soup

Frame only

rubiksoval

I think you're confusing "words of wisdom" with an opinion on the unsightly nature of copious amounts of spacers on a display bike.

Seattle Forrest

Beth got me a pair of 13 gram bottle cages from Amazon. She picked them for two reasons: no letting, and one of the reviews showed them on another Cervelo.

DrIsotope

I've been trying to justify Arundel Mandibles (28g) to myself for almost a year now, but the Elite Race cages I have now match the bike, weigh 41g apiece, and were less than $10 each. Those Arundels are sitting above $3/gram. Just can't do it.

noodle soup

You left out "chain guard".

HTupolev

Yes, they just usually don't advertise frame weight when they're that heavy. Some of the low-end carbon frames out there are pretty sucky, and even decent frames can get into that neighborhood if they're heavy styles. Domane SL disc frames can run upwards of 1400g, for instance.

Yes. Weight-weenie frames made from thinwall tubes can be under 3lbs, even in medium sizes.

1500SLR

Yes this, repeatedly, beyond the point of insanity the material that a bike is made out of is inconsequential.If someone wanted to ride a steel or titanium bike in a grand tour there would be nothing stopping them in terms of weight. The benefit of carbon is that it can be molded into shapes that give better aerodynamic benefits at an elite level. But, how many of us here are elite riders? I would say less than 1% of the people who post here could ride fast enough for it to make any consequential difference.

Kimmo

That's a secondary benefit. The main benefit is its high strength, which is anisotropic, allowing frame designers to make a bike that transfers pedaling effort efficiently while isolating road shock to a degree that's impossible for a metal frame in a double diamond format, unless the top tube points straight at the dropouts and there's half a metre of seatpost showing (which still wouldn't be UCI legal, which matters for everyone, because manufacturers produce very few road bike that can't be raced).

1500SLR

You can go over this over and over again. I'm going to tell you the same thing. You can make a rod of carbon as strong as steel, but they don't actually do that in actuality. You can link me to all the impact tests of a carbon bike in one direction, but this never happens in reality due to the laws of physics. a crash is never something that happens in one direction unless you propose we are dealing with the world where everything is made out of paper. The issue of making aluminum and steel frames more supple is also an issue that has been overcome. Like any other bike building materials there are areas of a frame on modern bikes made out of any material that are less than 0.25mm thick.

Your confirmation bias is one of the strongest I've read on any forum. To truly make a carbon bike frame as strong as a steel one it would have to be as heavy if not heavier than the steel equivalent. That's not even a matter up for debate. We know the facts to be self-evidently false. We know repeatedly that people post pictures of their carbon bike being banged up after being blown over in the wind and yet people like you continue with this garbage repeatedly that "carbon is stronger than steel." After watching videos from backyard engineers that have absolutely no scientific grounding in science repeatedly abusing bike frames you confirm to yourself what is nothing other than illogical bull crap most likely because you spent so much money on your bike.

What do we actually know that is true of bike frames and bike parts?

Carbon fiber has a incredibly low fracture toughness rating by fracture toughness number. Aluminum has a fracture toughness number that is around seventy times greater than carbon and the fracture toughness number for steel is even higher again. This shows us any damages, even deep scratches, or a corner gauges where for example the steerer tube meets the forks cause what we know as "brittle failures." These fractures lead to failures that do occur at limits way below the allowable stress limits for the material. Therefore, you see sudden unexpected carbon fiber failures. So if you want to say its stronger you need to understand the whole issue. To say it's stronger period is a facile argument devoid of the truth of the matter. Carbon is only stronger under certain design conditions and when its used with extreme care.

ReneV

???

OK, I'm going to bite, even though I suspect you'll start on a whole thing about "truly":

1500SLR

I already dealt with this, these one dimensional tests have no basis in reality. Read this and get back to me please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fracture_toughness

ReneV

You need to be a great deal more precise in what you say if you hope to make any form of sense. The tests in the video quite clearly take place in reality.

1500SLR

I have already stated the facts. An impact never happens in one direction so the impact of a one dimensional load such as in this video is in all senses practically irrelevant. You need to read more about fracture toughness and the points at which fractures will begin to be created in a material. Moreover you also need to read more about the points at which those fractures turn into cracks and grow. As most people know we don't buy second hand carbon components or frames that have not been thoroughly inspected because of brittle fractures. This article will give you all the explanation you need.