bikiola

I've been looking at re-doing some of my bike positions, and realizing that on my surly Troll, it feels like my handlebars are a little out of my reach, especially when I recently put the seat up a bit. Because I dont have any stems lying around and would need to buy one, is there "common knowledge" or some kind of accepted wisdom on whether its better to invest on a stem with steeper angle but same length (bringing it up and slightly closer) or shorter length but same angle, bringing it in?

I know it seems like nitpicking, and maybe I'm not asking the right question, but I'd love to know pros and cons and thoughts on how to proceed without buying useless stuff...

tarwheel 

A riser stem will shorten your reach (assuming same stem length) as well as raise your handlebar height. It all depends on what you want. If you merely want to shorten reach, get a shorter stem. If you also want to raise your handlebars, get a riser stem. If you google search for "Habanero stem calculator," you will find a great graphic for determining stem rise and reach.

Allez3

I'd go with stem length because raising it doesn't necessarily bring the handlebars closer to you given a particular length. They just put you in a more upright position. For me raising the stem has generally done little, but I'm tall. I'd order one of each on Amazon and return the one you don't like.

I once ordered four stems when I did a hybrid to drop conversion. The hybrid geometry was only different from a road bike by 1-degree in the head tube angle so I needed to compensate for that. It ended up being a 20mm difference between what was on the bike and what I needed to feel right. I went with the same length, then 10mm increments shorter. 30mm was too much and I couldn't get comfortable in the seat, felt like I was riding on my junk. I remember I couldn't tell the difference between the base length and the 10mm shorter. That said I was also offsetting the hand position between drop bars and flat bars.

I'd go with a shrink of 10mm and see how that feels.

DOS

As tarwheel says, it depends. If you have a flippable stem, and it is set angled downward (so at lowest and longest) try first flipping over. That will raise and shorten reach. See how that feels. I find very small changes make a big difference. Here is a calcultor I have used. Stem Comparison Tool | yojimg.net.

bikiola

Thanks, that makes sense I think. I currently have a Giant 31.8x80mm +/-8 deg and its set upward (so, + 8). I guess I should try a 60mm or 70mm 8, right?

I know this is tangential and a bit noob, but does stem brand/quality make a difference? Should I order another Giant? A Ritchey? Is there one recommended stem brand with sweet spot of quality and affordability?

Slash5

Play with this tool. You can see what different lengths and rises do. It's very cool.

Stem Comparison Tool | yojimg.net

DOS

Going all the way down to 60mm would be a big change. Reach and feel is a function of both distance and height (stack and reach are the two measurements). 80mm may be fine but you may need more angle than just 8 degrees to feel more upright and less stretched out. It is not really possible to diagnose from the info you have provided.

As for brand, I wouldn't worry about that with regard to alu stems. Find one that fits your budget and position needs and I am sure it will be fine. You might try an adjustable one as the most cost efctive way to hget your position dialed in to your liking.

bikiola

Thanks all, very helpful!

migrantwing

IMHO stem calculators are great, but there's no comparison to the 'hands on' approach. It's all good and well showing angle and degrees, fall and rise, but to the Average Joe, mathematics don't figure into it. Trial and error of swapping out stems is the best way to do it. Go to an LBS and ask them to fit a variation of stems on your bike and see which one works best. A little can go a long way, so to speak.

Leisesturm

I agree with this completely. But, that being said, how can we have an intelligent discussion about stem ergo's without knowing anything about the rider, or bike dimensions? Seems to me that the o.p. should be asked if he has done even a minimal amount of fit testing such as... elbow on saddle nose to handlebar. IMO if the o.p. can reach the bar with outstretched fingertips the stem doesn't need to be any shorter. An 80mm stem is not a long stem by any stretch. Personally I'd be looking at different bars at this point. Anything called a "riser bar". Something like an FSA Metropolis would also do a lot for the looks too. They have a tremendous amount of sweepback for comfort.

Did the seat really need to be higher? Women often have the seat too low, dudes usually have theirs too high. IMO, for a Millenial (<35) center portion of bars should be an inch or so beyond fingertips when elbow is on the nose of the saddle, bars with 25 to 50mm of rise will put the grips at anywhere from saddle height to around 1" (25.4mm) or more, above saddle height. Sweepback built into most bars will give a reasonable seating position, but I really can't say anymore without knowing the details of the actual rider and bike being discussed.

bikiola

seat definitely needed to be higher - I was having knee pain and while I am not a professional fitter, i know the kind of extension you're supposed to have during pedal (eg not full, but almost full) and that you shouldn't have to touch the ground. the height on the saddle feels perfect now. But I see what you're saying about knowing more about me, I'm not sure how much to give the forum, but my question was broader about how people begin testing whats needed, if there's common wisdom, etc. Appreciate all the tips I'm getting here...

bikiola

bike in question is a surly troll, size medium, with specs right here: Troll Steve?s Pants | Bikes | Surly Bikes - I'm 5'7".

Leisesturm

So... you could have fit the small... no matter... water under the bridge. Unless I way miss my guess, you don't need the bars closer to you, you need them a bit higher. One of the downsides of modern headset technology is that once the steerer tube is cut that is that as far as height. With the older technology a super high stem like a Nitto Technomic could get you as much (or more) height as you wanted. A steerer tube height extender is probably a bit much for what you need but you might keep it in the back of your mind as a plan b. A steeper angle stem like 30* might help. There are much steeper angles than that too. I've never paid more than $20 for a stem. It's not really necessary. Kalloy, Salsa, Dimension, Origin 8, any of them sell decent, cheap stems.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...rder=price_asc

bikiola

Thanks all for this - puting the stem slightly higher and closer feels a lot more nimble!