yannisg

I have been using tubeless road tires for over 2 yrs. Shimano DuraAce C24 tubeless rims/Hutchinson fusion 3 tubeless tires. Every 6-8 months I remove the tires, and clean rims and tires thoroughly from the Stan's sealant residue. Usually, with some difficulty, I can seal the tire to the rim after adding sealant; I use a compressor. Recently, I tried to seal a used tire to a new rim, but failed after many attempts, and manipulating the tire in areas where it was loosing air. The tire had been thoroughly cleaned. Another used tire sealed with moderate difficulty to a used rim. In the passed 2 yrs I have ran into problems sealing the tires, but eventually they have all sealed. Even though this time I have made many more attempts I have not been able to seal it.
Any ideas how to overcome this difficulty.
Thanks
YannisG

dabac

Why are you removing and cleaning the rims/tires out, what are you hoping to achieve with that?
Isn't the recommendation to simply fit them, inject the sealant, and then maybe top up a little as/if needed, until the tire wears out.

reptilezs

if you are using true ust tires and wheels then you do not need sealant. some tires are tubeless ready which are a normal tire with the tubeless style bead. if doing a rim conversion then use sealant

Jed19

Removing and cleaning is probably the safe thing to do in his situation. I have heard that the Shimano rims are susceptible to corrosion when certain make of sealants are used, and that shimano specifically warns against sealants being used on their rims, as the warranty is null and void when these corrosion happens.

yannisg

Thanks for yr responses,
After about a yr in a warm climate you get quite a lot of gummy residue from the sealant that needs to removed.
As for topping up you cannot add sealant through the Shimano valve so you have to break the tire seal to add sealant, and that when the problem arises to reseal the tire. Its, of course, easier than taking the whole tire off, but once you break the seal you run into this problem.
I have been using sealant for 2 yrs, and have about 5000klm on these tires with no flats. So from that aspect the tubeless tires are great. True the sealant does cause some surface pitting in the rim, but that does not influence the performance.
I was just wondering if anyone using tubeless road tires has found an easy way to seal the tires.
YannisG

Crankycrank

I have not had any experience with this stuff but may be worth a try for your situation. Gets a good review here https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/catego...-sealant-46875 but looks like it must be ordered from the UK at the moment and not cheap.

well biked

First, and I think it's great that you've had good luck in running tubeless with the Shimano rims, but I really do not like Shimano road tubeless-ready wheels. For one thing, the whole thing with sealant voiding the warranty because it damages the rims is ridiculous. Ridiculous because I believe some sealants do damage Shimano rims, and I've not seen it damage other brands of rims after over ten years of using it with mountain tubeless setups. I think it may be an inferior anodization of Shimano rims that make them especially prone to damage from this. I have seen pictures of damaged Shimano rims from use of sealant. I told our Shimano rep that I thought it was ridiculous that you can't use sealant in a Shimano tubeless ready rim without voiding the warranty. He responded by telling me that sealant will corrode the rims, so of course it voids the warranty. I showed him some Mavic rims that had Stan's sealant in them for several years, with no sign of corrosion. He shrugged. Bottom line: I think sealant is a big part of the tubeless advantage, and Shimano is producing tubeless-ready wheels that really should not be used with sealant, at least not "officially." I think they should figure out how to make rims that can be used with sealant and get on board, because, again, it's a major part of the tubeless advantage IMO, road or mountain.

Okay, enough of my rant, sorry. One thing that might help with getting the tires to seal and hold air: if you can use a valve stem with a removable core (I realize Shimano, in an effort to discourage sealant injection through the core, equips their wheels without removable valve cores), remove the core and put the compressor's air chuck over the stem. Inflate the tire, and hopefully with the air chuck directly on the valve stem without the core in it, the tire's bead will seat when you flood air into the tire. When you remove the chuck, the tire will immediately deflate, of course, but the bead of the tire will be much more prone to seat and hold air now, so put the core back in the stem and inflate again. After doing this little trick using the compressor, I can usually inflate road tubeless tires with a floor pump, no compressor needed. The normal order is to remove the valve core and inflate the tire with the compressor, remove the chuck and the tire deflates, add sealant through the valve stem before re- installing valve core, then install core and inflate tire to desired pressure. Soapy water on the bead of the tire can be helpful, too, although I've never had to use it with road tubeless setups. With mountain tubeless, I always use soapy water on the bead of the tire to help with the bead seating properly.

You say you have surface pitting on your rims already, I'd keep a close eye on that because I believe complete rim failures from corrosion is not unheard of with Shimano rims w/sealant. Good luck-

yannisg

Well biked thanks for yr response.
I agree with what you are saying regarding the corrosion. I think is due to a poor or too thin a anodizing job done on the rim. One thing that is a little strange is on my corroded rim there is no corrosion on the central groove of the rim, and I would think the sealant is there too.
Regarding removing the core that would definitely increase the volume of air to seal the tire. Is there a valve with a removal core compatible with the Shimano rims? I believe there is not.
I tried to push the leaking areas of the tire against the rim by hand, and that usually works after several attempts, but this time it wouldn't seal. Then I tried lifting the tire bead of the rim in leaking areas, and let it seat back down. The bead seated much closer to the rim. I did this in a couple of areas around the rim, and finally it seated. I must of worked almost 3 hours on sealing this rim wondering whether its worth the hassle. But when end is good, all is good.
YannisG

well biked

I don't think I've used these in Shimano wheels myself, but Stan's Notubes Universal tubeless valve stems (44mm length stems) are advertised as being compatible with Shimano tubeless rims. They definitely have a removable valve core.

https://www.notubes.com/Universal-44m...r-P163C16.aspx

dabac

Well...
The major driver of corrosion is available oxygen. Air usually don't hold enough to matter but water based liquids sure can hold a fair amount. Either way, if corrosion is your concern, each time you pop the tire and repeat the sealing process you'll introduce more oxygen - more stuff to maintain the reaction you're worried about.
So sure, you can pop the tire to look for damage, but apart from that I can't see any merit.

dabac

Where do you get that residue, and why does it have to be removed? The whole point of the sealants is to leave a residue after all.

I dunno, it seems like MTB use of sealant and tubeless is ever so much simpler...

yannisg

Hi Dabac,
I usually break the seal to add more sealant. In warm climates it dries up quickly. I estimate I have to top it up every 4 to 6 months. I have removed the tires in the past, and the liquid has completely dried up. I don't remember the time length. I don't think you get any puncture protection once this stuff dries up in yr tire. This gummy residue, like chewing gum, accumulates over time, and becomes lumpy. I am not so much concerned about the weight, but the effect it might have on preventing the bead to seal.
I use tubeless mtn bike tires also, and I agree that they seal much much easier to seal. However, I have experienced a failure of threading of the tire from the sealant. I though this sudden bulging of the tire to the point where it would touch the chain stay was a fluke incident until it happen to another rider, and it was also reported in a forum.
YannisG

yannisg

Hi Well biked,
You are right the site does say they are Shimano wheels compatible. Does this include their road wheels? I'll need to contact them. If this is the case, then you could also remove the valve core to inject sealant, and avoid breaking the seal.
Thanks,
YannisG

well biked

I would email or call Notubes, they will know for sure. Good luck-

well biked

I thought the same thing until about a year and a half ago, and indeed road and mountain tubeless are somewhat different animals. However, after using road tubeless for about a year and a half, I'm sold on the benefits.

My thoughts and experience with road tubeless: it really works better with a rim that's intended for road tubeless. Not because the tire seats or holds air better, but because the profile of the rim will give the tire a rounder shape when mounted and inflated, and when run with lower pressures and this higher volume shape, the ride quality is great. My personal experience has been with Stan's Notubes road rims; I set up some Mavic Ksyriums with road tubeless tires and the profile of the tire was so narrow when inflated that it took away a good bit of the ride quality at lower pressures. I no longer use the Kysrium rims tubeless.

As I posted above, there's a brief process to go through to get the tire inflated initially, but once done, you're done IME. Stan calls for 2 oz of sealant in a road tire, I usually put about 3 oz and have worn out tires before needed to replinish or break the bead for any reason. My test is I occasionally shake the wheel near my ear, and if I can hear liquid sloshing I'm confident I have enough sealant in the tire. Between us, a co-worker of mine and I have something like 9-10,000 miles of road tubeless miles combined, and we've not had a single flat or tire mishap in this time. All the while, we're running slightly lower pressure than we would be with tubes, getting excellent ride quality and excellent flat protection at the same time, two things that are usually mutually exlcusive.

The real key to road tubeless is the tires; without the small handful of road tubeless tires from Hutchinson and Maxxis, you really can't expect to run in the neighborhood of 100 psi safely with a tubeless setup. These tires are excellent, in my case I like the Hutchinson Atoms the best because they're slightly lighter. I'm on my second pair.

yannisg

Hi well biked,
I use about a cup measure of sealant. Some of it leaks out so I end up with about 3/4 in the tire. I have not tried the Hutchinson Atoms because, it seems, the fusion 3 are more durable, and the roads here can get rough. I use the tubeless setup only for Brevets and races, and train with Michelin krylion tires to reduce the wear on the expensive fusion tires. The ride is definitely smoother with the tubeless setup. I also have had no flats, but a tear. I had to install an inner tube to return home. On the Brevets I carry 2 inner tubes with me, and a tire patch.
YannisG

pmt

Switch from Fusion3 to Fusion2 or Intensive. The Fusion3 is significantly more difficult to deal with when using Road Tubeless. Fusion2 is easy as pie to mount and inflate, and will hold air without sealant on many different wheelsets. Intensive is also pretty easy as well as being very puncture-resistant.

I still have a couple Fusion3 that I run on the rear only so I can wear them out and throw them away.