anotherbike

I looked at this bike on Sun. I bought a cruiser off the same seller. I wasn't going to get into another road bike but this thing looked brand new, like it was never ridden.
https://southjersey.craigslist.org/b...156088700.html
Its a tad bit big for me but doable. The old Schwinn I bought off him was everything he said it was, (I took it apart even though he said it was all gone through, which it was, it didn't need a thing).
I know these went for good money back in the day, far more than I could have spent back then, his price seemed reasonable for such a clean bike.
Any opinions here? I'm thinking of taking the ride back there next weekend if its still there and adding a road bike back to the fleet here.

kross57

The price seems high to me for such a large frame, even with the current uptick in prices across NJ. I see its been for sale for 19 days. I would offer no more than $350. Nice bike!

anotherbike

Why would the large frame hurt its value?
If it were a small frame it wouldn't be worth anything to me.
At 6ft 2in tall, anything under a 62cm frame is too small.
This one seemed to fit me well, even though its a tad tall, its doable, and may even be a benefit as it'll give me better leg extension.
The top tube on this didn't feel like it was a mile long, I really liked the way it sat, and I've not been on a road bike in a year or more.

I was planning on offering less, but I wouldn't pass on a bike over $50,
especially not considering how hard it is to find a clean older bike these days.
Every last bike I've gone to see has either been sold before I got there or turned out to need a ton of work.
This one is ready to go. I also thought it looked good with the all black tires vs. vintage gumwalls, it was raining when I was there so I couldn't take it out for a ride but was able to sit on it and get the feel for it. Something about that bike just felt right.

TugaDude

Regarding large frames, history shows it is harder to move them. There is the occasional exception, one person on the forum says he sells large frames fast and at a premium. That is not the case globally.
Of course taller people want larger frames, but the average person cannot ride a 60cm and up. In fact, the average height for men in the U.S. is 5'9" and at that height, a 56 would be about right.
So larger frames are usually harder to sell. In general.

bikemig 

I'm sorry but who the heck takes crummy cell phone pics of a bike at night and then asks $450 for a bike? Hopefully it's not being sold by one of the Sopranos.

+ 1 on the price being too high even for NJ and even with the pandemic price bump on all bikes. My brother lives in NJ and I just shipped a bike out there to my nephew because bikes are scarce.

Don't forget this bike is only an Ishiwata 022 main triangle and likely hi tensile steel fork and rear triangle Nothing wrong with that. I'm a fan of early Treks. But at $450, I'd expect a complete Ishiwata 022 frame.

If it fits, try to negotiate a better price. The bigger frame won't help with leg extension since that is a function of saddle height but you may like riding a little larger bike than you are accustomed to. That was called, BITD, French fit and it's a good way to fit a bike.

kross57

A 64cm frame is not just large. It is HUGE. Not many 6'5"-6'10" buyers. Since very few people would be interested. a sale would be difficult. Granted there are also few bikes this size for the larger buyers. I understand the problem of finding a good bike right now, but this one will not sell quickly, at least IMO. $350 seems more reasonable.

nesteel 

Good grief; no way at $450. No brake lever hoods, low end/junk saddle, paint is not great. Pass.
Maybe at $250. At the end of the day its a large, low end Trek.

BTW, it isn't about height when fitting a bike. It's about inseam.

anotherbike

What does the picture got to do with the bike? There's hundreds of ads with no pics too.
I really didn't see any problem with the pics. At least he had pics posted.
I actually thought the saddle was pretty good, better than any of them I've got here.
I'd venture to bet that saddle came with the bike, it sure looks like the one in the brochure I got here, it even says Avocet on it.
I don't really care what the tubing is, but from what I remember Ishiwatta 022 was pretty decent tubing, on par with 531 back then.
I did look at another bike, there's a 1977 Raleigh Super Course that needs work for $400, but someone has stuck all Shimano bits on it vs. the original Suntour. For some reason a Super Course with all Shimano 600 just looks wrong. Besides, I've always hated Shimano.
I also thought the paint on the Trek was really decent for being 40 years old, none of my current bikes are that clean, age and weather take a real toll on paint and chrome. The paint has a few wear spots from what is likely lock wear but the rest is really decent. I'd say its a good 10 footer paint job. Which isn't bad compared to most out there.
I looked a four older Treks this week, three were too small, only 22 or 23" frames, every one had the same cranks as this bike, Silstar with steel rings, they're very similar to what came on my last Raleigh Super Course years ago. So I really don't know what anyone means by Cheap crankset? Its what belongs on that bike as far as I'm concerned.

Most guys I know are 6ft or taller, I'm 6-3 and I'm the shortest of my group of friends. I had a 66cm Raleigh Technium a few years ago that was way big for me, I listed it for $300 as is and it was gone in two days. It needed a complete going over, which was no big deal but someone had wrapped the handle bars in duct tape and I really didn't care to deal with that mess. I've had a 21" Raleigh Grand Prix listed for $40 for four years and its still sitting here. The bike is clean and ready to ride. If it were a 25" frame, I'd keep it and wouldn't be looking for a bike. If I found a good 25" Grand Prix frame I'd swap all the bits over from the bike I've got and be done looking but all the frames I find are for 700c wheels not 27" steel wheels.

I took a ride over to a used bike shop earlier today, they had a 62cm Schwinn Paramount Series 3 PDG? for $600, but the bike didn't fit me well, the bars were too far out of reach and the wheels were too skinny for road use around here. Its a newer bike and it looked cheap to me. 700 wheels, skinny tires, not my style. I think I definitely want to stick to 27" wheels, and 27x1 3/8" tires if possible. The gravel roads around here would eat up skinny 700x23 tires in a hurry. I've got cracks in my driveway wider than those tires.
Also, at my size and being over 450lbs, I really want to stick with a good solid steel frame bike. Steel wheels would also be a plus but I find very few bikes these days with steel wheels that aren't rusted away. Its hard enough to find aluminum wheels that aren't worth through on the sides as well.

I also saw this one: https://southjersey.craigslist.org/bik/d/schwinn-continental/7166568381.html
Its my size but it needs a lot of work, and I really don't care for yellow, so a repaint in blue is in order.
Considering what I've seen so far, the Trek looks pretty good.
Looking at the brochure I saved from years ago, it looks like everything but the rims and tires are original.
I'm not looking for a racing bike, I'm looking for a riding bike, it has to fit me, handle well and not get a flat tire every time I take it out.
After looking at the prices of new bikes, (anything road bike wise is well over $2k at the nearest bike shop here), $400 for the Trek seemed like a bargain, especially with all new cables, brakes, cranks, etc.
I did an eBay search and couldn't find anything any cheaper.
Here's what I find in 64cm:
Schwinn Voyager:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-SCHWINN-Voyageur-II-64cm
Trek 360 bare frame:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trek-360-Touring-Road-Bike-Frame-64cm

$271 for a bare frame, not even of Ishawatta tubing. It'll take hundreds more to make this into a full bike.
I can't see how $400 or so for a working, riding bike is that far off?
I sure don't see anything even close to that for sale for less.

Here's some unknown brand bike with steel everything:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jetter-62-cm-Tall-Road-Bike

NJgreyhead

The map shows that as just about the location of a bike shop (Mojo). Is that right?
Apparently you've done you homework. If you like it, it fits, and you are OK with the price (which may have some wiggle room), go for it.
(I like Treks. They're much better than Schwinn Continentals.)

vintagebicycle

Wow, just because a guy is looking at a bike that's not your cup of tea its no good here.
I don't see anyone here offering him anything cheaper in any better condition?
I highly doubt that's at a bike shop with the bike pics taken against a tree like that.
A bike shop would have a showroom and lights to take pics in, not out in the grass under a tree.
The tree is likely a requirement as most of those bikes didn't come with kickstands. ( I'd also consider the fact no one ever put on on it a big plus, it likely means the chain stays aren't crushed by some cheap Wald kickstand.).
I've gotten that much for Schwinn Varsity 10 speeds and old cruisers.

I totally don't see how the size of the frame affects its value, if it don't fit, don't buy it. If there weren't people who needed bigger size frames, they wouldn't make them, then or now. I sell far more larger frames than smaller frames. small frames sit and gather dust.
The strange part is that many large frame buyers don't need one, many can't even ride one safely but they buy them anyway. I've sold more 63-69cm frames to guys under 5ft 5in tall than I have to guys who really fit those size frames.
I suppose its something like the guy who buys a Hummer or one ton dually diesel pickup to drive to the super market once a week.

Every 400 and 500 Trek I've seen had those cranks, its what they came with.(As did many other bikes back at that time, those cranks were on various Schwinn Letours, Ross, Raleigh, Motobecane, and other makes. The only differences is some had decals which scripted those with their own brand name. They weren't high end, but they worked just fine, especially on touring or daily ridden bike. The same with the Dia Compe levers. Most likely someone added turkey levers and had to toss the hoods for clearance. Those bikes came with Dia Compe 500 calipers, which it what I see on it. The original derailleurs were Suntour VX or VX-GT, which its got.
The stem and bars are both SR, which also matches the catalog I'm looking at here.
Most of them came with very narrow Rigida 13-20 rims, with 27x1 1/8" tires, that combo was prone to pinch flats and was outright useless on rougher pavement. Nearly every last one of those bike I find have had the rims swapped out for something wider. They were built as Touring bikes with a very relaxed geometry, which made them extremely comfortable bikes to ride, far more so than any other of the Trek models.
The 022 main triangle only is par for the course, especially on a larger frame. I don't think I'd want the thinnest of tubing in the forks and stays on a bike that size, nor did most manufacturers actually build even the better frames that way. The draw back I see to that bike is the DT shifters, if your a big guy, those shifters are just about impossible to operate. You will most likely have to move to either barcons or stem shifters, or convert to a straight bar and thumb shifters.
For me, the act of shifting DT shifters while pedaling means a knee to the jaw or fingers in the front spokes.

I just sold a slightly newer 410, the bike was all original, in 'fair' condition at best and 'as found' meaning that although it did ride and shift just fine, it really needed to be torn down and regreased and adjusted, along with a good cleaning, It was a 25.5" frame like the 412 in the ad above, I listed the bike for $300, and took $250 two days later. The bike I sold was a far cry from what the OP is looking at which looks like its had a ton of new parts and all new cables, considering how many hours it takes to strip, clean, and reassemble a bike like that, another $150 -$200 isn't all that much money.

Now if you take it as the sum of its parts, what is a brand new 27" wheelset worth with stainless spokes, alloy rims and low flange hubs worth? The cheapest of cheap 27" replacement wheels I see in my catalog here is $141, and that's wholesale price. Double that or more at a bike shop. For that money you get no name rims, not name hubs, and galvanized spokes all made in China. Worse, yet, its likely not available right now anyway.

Then you have tires, figure at least $20 each, plus tubes, another $15. New cables and housings, a freewheel, new padded bar tape, new crankset, there's a well used set on their now for $40 and $39 shipping. Then add a new chain, another $10-$15. How about new old stock Dia Compe 500's? Likely another $75 plus shipping. Add all that up and figure in what a build-able frame is worth, and even without any labor your well over what most bikes like that a listed for. Just in parts your over $400 and that's not counting labor.

Sure you can find a cheap well used bike and tear it down and rebuild it and make it nice again, but the parts aren't new, and the labor involved in tearing down each and ever component to restore it will far exceed what a complete, already rebuilt bike would have likely cost.
I'm retired now for a number of years, I buy lots of bikes and rebuild them for resale, even though my time is my own, its worth something. I'd be fool to do it all for free.
I wouldn't expect anyone else to do it for free either. Face it, most bikes 40 years old, even if they were new in the box will need a complete tear down and relube at the very least. A lot of guys either can't or don't care to do all that. They just want a bike to ride.
If I was in the market for a bike like that, and the only thing you have to compare it too price wise is either a new bike, or what's on eBay, $400 or so for something ready to ride don't sound all that bad. Sure a deal pops up every so often but not usually when you need one.

Here's a common set of 27" wheels, $200 on fleabay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Sun-CR18-27-Silver-Road-Bike-Wheelset

That's half of what that guy is asking and you still need a frame, tires, saddle, bars, derailleurs, a chain, and cables and all the other assorted hardware.
So how on earth is $400 too much for a bike like that?

My advice to the OP is to shop around, if that's the bike that fits and feels right, and your okay with the price, go for it.
You can save a lot of money by fixing something up yourself but time is also a factor to most.
You mention that the bike is a tad big, if that's the case I'd have to think long and hard if making that work is the right answer. For me, I generally ride a bike one size too big, its the only way I can usually get proper leg extension, but it often comes at the sacrifice of a longer top tube which I hate, but that can be compensated for with a shorter reach stem and the right bars. (Something I see that's been done with that Trek).
Bringing the bars in closer, if you have the room, can make a larger frame fit better and feel way more comfortable to ride.
The fact that that bike has turkey levers means someone likely put it together with the intent to ride it, not for show. Not many folks buy a bike and ride all the time in the drop position, most people that size simply can't. So having brakes in the upright position is a safety issue and a necessity. There are hoods that can be added but they're ugly and don't last. If you have the upper levers, there's no real need for hoods either.
The wheels on that bike look like the set I linked to above, if not, an earlier version of them. Sun Ringle makes a good rim, and if they were bought as wheelset, they likely have sealed bearing hubs along with what does appear to be stainless spokes, Not a bad combo at all. With what parts are bringing these days, even at $400, I see that bike as being almost worth buying and parting out, you would likely still make money even if the frame didn't sell.
When I sell a bike on CL or FB, I rarely worry about what saddle or pedals its got, 90% of all buyers change them out right away no matter what, most road bikes didn't come with pedals, and saddle quality was all over the place. The lightest saddles were hard and uncomfortable, the most comfortable saddles were heavy. Most manufacturers took the middle road and gave you something in between. For me, I've got about 5 saddles I like and have broken in myself, they stay with me, I swap them between bikes, I don't much care what a bike comes with, I just set it aside for later when I sell it or another bike down the road.

nesteel 

You didn't miss anything by not reading it. Just a rambling off target post with various inaccuracies.

79pmooney

I have that frame. I was told by a Trek shop manager that it was an '83 4something. So probably a 412. Thank you. Came without decals but that blue. It's my workhorse rain/winter/city fix gear, frame #5 of a 44 year series. Now 12 years and 20,000 miles under me. I run it 700c using a Weinmann centerpull rear and Mafac Racer front for brakes. Tektro levers, It's a stopper.

My opinion: Yes, decent tubes for the main triangle, hi tensile fork and stays. Rides not as smooth as a better tubed bike would be, but it is very good. I like getting off it and on to my good bikes, but going from good to the Trek is no hardship at all. (I have it set up so fit is identical. The good bikes are custom and I have to use a 175 stem to get the reach, but bike handles just fine doing that. And now you know why I go custom.)

It does have the infamous TREK seatstay caps. Many of those have cracked across the deep letters. (Big crack on mine ran though the vertical of the "R". There were smaller cracks on the other cap.) Repairing the cap is straight forward for a decent framebuilder. (Basically a lot of braze. The builder who did mine filled in the:R:so it's now T EK) Straight forward but it did cost me a paint job. I went powdercoat and the whole thing cost me ~$500. I'm sure I could have found cheaper if I had looked.

All around, a good, solid, decent riding bike. Not a dog. Very good habits. I've done nothing to "improve" the ride or anything else save run the huge stem to put the handlebars where I need them. (Yes, all the parts on mine are from the previous bike - that's just the deal for my workhorses. But most of those parts aren't far from stock. Sugino crankset. Common older haandlebars. The post is a small treat, a zigzag scarred Campy Chorus I happened to have.. All diameters, tubes, and threads exactly what you would expect for a Japanese/American bike of the day. I got to use every part off my Miyata 610. Could have used its post. Swapping was a breeze.

BF'ers will argue all day what the price should be. You won't regret paying what that seller wants if the bike works out for you. Mine serves me well enough that I paid more, knowingly, to keep it going. That was 9 years ago and I do not regret it. My one reservation - the size. I put considerably more mileage on the Miyata that preceded my Trek. It was 25"/63 cm. Many years of riding a frame too big. That was a better bike but I never fell in love with it. 28 years is a VERY long time to be riding a bike you don't love!

Ben

anotherbike

What on earth does this have to do with a road bike from 1980?
It looks like an aluminum frame cruiser or mountain bike of some sort.
There also was no 560EX in the early years, as far as I'm concerned they stopped making bikes
in 1980 or there about. If its not steel, and don't have 27" wheels I don't want it. Period.
I'm not brand specific at all just so its either a US or UK company. I've got no real interest in anything Asian, and absolutely no interest in anything Chinese built.
My interest in the 412 is that its local, its in ready to ride condition and I haven't seen anything cheaper in any better shape.
There's plenty of big projects, both higher and lower end, I'm not looking for a project, just an old road bike to ride.
My first choice would be a Schwinn, a Varsity, Continental, or other variant, but they really never made them my size, the largest frame is a 24", a tad bit small for me.
My ideal bike would be something in a 62cm frame, 10 or 12 speeds, 27x1 3/8" tires, alloy wheels, stainless straight gauge spokes, Black tires, with a shorter top tube or at least a short reach. I can stand over 34" comfortably, the Trek on Cl is 34.75 or so, I can clear it but only if I'm careful. A quick dismount in flat shoes may be an issue. However, the taller frame gives me good leg extension, even better than my usual size.

I read somewhere in another post here that the best way to figure if something is priced right or not is to figure what you would sell it for if it were yours. If that's the only thing I have to go on, there's no way I'd sell that bike or any bike that clean for what he's asking. I can't buy one for that, not new, not in pieces and certainly not on eBay. Like I said, I don't want a project, summer is half over and I'd like to ride now. No doubt I'd love to find one just like it for $250 or less, but they're not out there and most guys with them who would sell a bike for that cheap, likely won't know enough about bikes to have kept it in any sort of decent shape. It's most likely going to be a major can of worms.

My biggest concern is that the Trek is a bit big for me, and yes its a lot of money, but I don't see any for less? There is one in rough shape, an almost identical bike about 200 miles from here but its got two flat tires and looks like its been sitting for decades in a chicken coop, the guy wants $275 firm. It'll likely need new wheels, new tires and tubes, all new cables, a new chain, a saddle, and bar tape, plus lots of soap, polish and grease, and a couple long weekends of my time, not to mention shipping or the gas to go get it. That $275 bike, the way I figured it, (and I did seriously think about it), would cost me well over $600 by the time I'm done with it. Gas and time ain't cheap.
A 200 mile ride would cost me a tank of fuel in my truck, that gets about 12mpg. That's likely $50 before I even touch the bike. Then figure a day killed going after it, a day I could be riding, fishing, or simply having a beer.
Then I still have to fix it.

anotherbike

This makes sense to me, but doing all the swapping isn't something I'm into so much these days, especially not on a 90 degree day in July. The frame on that Trek I looked at was good, its got its scratches and such but nothing I wouldn't expect, and to be honest, if its too clean it wouldn't get used like I'd like to use it. A bike to me is sort of like a truck in a way, I jump on it when I need it, forget about it when I don't. Anything less is a headache. Most of the higher end bikes I've had were headaches. Super thin tubes don't do well under big riders, I found that out 40 years ago and a few hundred cases of beer ago. Broken cranks, broken bottom brackets are no fun. I made the mistake of trading a really nice old balloon tire Schwinn I had for a full campy Nuovo record Paramount. Two years later the down tube separated from the bottom bracket. It hung in my garage for 10 years before I found a donor frame, a week after the frame swap I broke the right crank arm standing up trying to climb a small hill. I dumped it and bought a regular bike built for the real world. Like I said, I'm a big guy, think football player on a road bike with a duck dynasty style gray beard down to my waste. I have a problem with down tube shifters, leaning over and getting your beard caught in the stem, headset or even the front wheel is no fun, so I move the shifters to the stem or bars. Its where the Varsity has a big advantage, its both solid as a rock and the shifters are within reach.
When I looked at that Trek, I wasn't expecting to find what everyone calls turkey levers, but they're a pleasant surprise. Most bikes like that don't have them and braking is a problem if your gut hits the bars before your hands hit the brake levers.
I don't ride far, but I ride quite a bit for a guy my age and my size. I put about 530 miles on my old three speed so far this year. Most of it was just riding around the neighborhood here and down to a buddies place about 10 miles away.
The roads suck here, there's no other way to put it, there's no shoulder and most side roads are broken up, full of pot holes and debris. Skinny tires don't work, I need something that won't get caught in cracks and won't buckle over every rock or bump. It also needs to be able to do at least some gravel road riding, it seems anywhere I go entails at least some length of riding down a dirt path or trail. Again, skinny 23mm tires don't work well for that. I tried in the past, and putting wider tires on narrow rims means pinch flats.

I'm going this evening to look at another bike, a Trek 512, in a slightly smaller frame, but I think it may only be a 59cm frame, the guy can't seem to give me a proper measurement. Its supposedly all redone for $400 but its built up with a modern Nexus 7 speed hub and straight bars. I only have a few phone pics but its not terribly far away so I'll go look. If I remember right, the 512 was the same as the 412 but with 531 tubes instead. The type of tubing don't matter much to me. I just want something that won't break.

27inch

About two weeks ago I had looked at a pair of new in the box 1980-81 Trek 412 bikes for sale a couple hours north of where that bike is located but they were sold before I got back with cash. The guy was asking $750. He had several of them, but sold everyone of them in three days.
Those new in the box bikes were equipped the same as the bike listed on CL here, with but with different rims. The cranks were exactly like those on the bike here, as were the brakes, and derailleurs. The largest of the new bikes had longer reach stems, but those are often changed for proper fit. I rarely run the super long reach stems found on most larger frame bikes, my arms just aren't that long.
I don't see a problem with the Silstar crankset? It was spec on these and various other bikes back then, I've probably had 20 bikes with that very set over the years. They last forever and have never given me any problems. Unlike several Campy cranks I've had which snapped off while under full load. Not a fun experience.

The 412 wasn't top of the line for Trek, but from what I remember, there weren't any low end Trek bikes, they were all super pricey back in the day. Their entry level was at the very least upper mid grade for most brands. I would put the 412 on par with the Raleigh Super Course, Motobecane Grand Jubile, or the Schwinn Letour 12,2 from tht same period. All were $450+ bikes back when a top of the line Paramount ran you about $750 and an entry level Peugeot ran around $120.
If I didn't know anything about bikes I'd think the OP was asking about a Huffy or some China built POS.

Times have changed, bikes these days cost more than they did 20 or 40 years ago. I firmly agree with the OP in the nothing newer than 1980 or so. Once index shifting, Shimano, and Chinese bikes became the norm, I lost interest fast. While I'm not brand specific either I do prefer 27" wheel bikes, I don't care for bikes designed for 'racing' The frame geometry doesn't work for me on the street and super narrow tires limit my riding too much. A good set of cheap 27" tires complete with thorn resistant tubes, tire liners, and Slime. are all I run.
I buy tubes by the case and I bought a case of Tuff Liners four years ago. I haven't had a flat since.

If the bike isn't your size, you won't ride it, or at least not as much as you would like to. The price isn't that bad and who buys anything without making an offer to try and get it for less. I find most items are listed at least 20% or so higher than they really want, its pretty much part of selling 101. No one want to pay asking price, so ask high, take the first offer that meets your real price.

I see very few larger bikes listed, never have, but when they do turn up they command a premium. I figured this has a lot to do with the fact that very few bike flippers deal with big bikes because they can't be shipped, they don't fit into the Bike Ship dimensions no matter what, so shipping is a problem.
So when one pops up in your area, and its in good shape, you have to jump on it or the next one may be 500 miles away.
I wish there were more clean vintage larger bikes out there, if there were, I wouldn't be limited to only 23 bikes to ride.

NJgreyhead

The seller has changed the ad, with new pics (indoor lighting) and a different location (still in Vineland, tho). The old ad (night lighting) is still up, however.
https://southjersey.craigslist.org/b...167855402.html
https://southjersey.craigslist.org/b...156088700.html

Pedal303

I'm a buyer at 250-275. I think the 450 price has some affection tied to it. Gotta love old Treks though.

madpogue 

Then they were way overpriced, compared to what the Trek would have cost. If it's indeed a turn-of-the-decade 412, it would have been $365 new. And it would have had Rigida 1320 rims, probably with presta valves, rather than those cheap-ish looking replacements.

And the new depiction of the bike as "like new" is beyond laughable. Would you call a bike with cheap plastic '90s big-box-bike pedals, and major nicks in the paint showing rust, "like new"?

anotherbike

In one post its an entry level bike, now its a beautiful frame? Which is it?



What is wrong with being 6ft2 tall, if I weren't I wouldn't be looking at this bike at all
I emailed the seller with a $250 offer, but never got a reply.
I had a buddy email and he got told he don't take offers via email.
"Come see the bike and bring cash". He's only around after 3pm on the weekends.
The seller is an older guy, he sort of reminded me of one of the Duck Dynasty guys. He's a bit shorter than I am, maybe 6ft or so.

I looked again at the brochure, the Trek brochure lists an DR SN5 crank for the 412/414 models for 80-81, I have no way of knowing what that looks like but do know that every 412 I've looked at has these same cranks. Other than the wheels and pedals the bike on CL looks 100% correct.
I think the rims said Sun on them. I don't really care about one of these having original rims, the original rims were too fragile for a big rider.
I've looked at a few dozen bikes, most have had wheels replaced, those that didn't, need new wheels.

If I remember correctly, way back when I looked at these when they were new, the model number was pretty close to the price, and they only had the 412 and one '5XX" model in stock where I had looked at them. I suppose that with tax and all $450 is possible, it depends on where your at I suppose. Bikes are cheaper in the city it seems, they likely move more of them and rely less on one sale to make their money.

I'm likely going to pass on the bike mainly because of fit, If my legs were a tad bit longer it may be bike for me.
The second link isn't working for me for some reason, I only see the original ad for this bike?

madpogue 

Both. Even the entry-level Treks were hand-built, handsome frames. Still doesn't make it worth the ask.

Here's its slightly younger sibling, appears to be an '82, a few improvements (brake cable braze-ons, better brake levers, etc), still a COVID-tax price, but at least a little more approachable. Last year, this bike would've had trouble fetching $150:

https://madison.craigslist.org/bik/d...160686513.html

Vintage Trek late 70's early 80's 10 speed bike - $275 (Madison)

27inch

Here's a shot of one of mine, the bike hasn't been ridden in 20 years but its still complete. The rims got changed out in the late 80's when the spoke holes started to show cracks on the Rigida rims, I think these are just Matrix or Trek house brand rims, they're bronze or black anodized but look the part, the replacement hubs we used were what came on the bike, they were unbranded, but looked like Campy Nuovo Record copies of some sort. Maybe Miche? The bike spec'd out Sunshine Gyro but its not what it came with new. The new rims took schrader valve stems, the originals were presta. I didn't mind the upgrade. presta valves are a royal pain.
The cranks are the same as those on the bike above, the top of my crank arms say 'Silstar', the chain rings are steel. It originally had a chainguard ring on it, I tossed it years ago. The pedals are cheap rat trap steel off an old Raleigh, its what I had when the SR pedals died. The original SR pedals were awkward things, they were short, and odd shaped, I never liked them much and anything was an improvement. The dust caps were originally red, but I broke one servicing the crank bearings and these were all the local bike shop had at the time.
The pic is scanned from an old Polaroid, it was taken around 1988 or so, about the time I moved to PA. I had taken a bunch of pics and posted them at work on the bulletin board back then with a note I wanted to sell it, I think I got almost what I paid for it because the new Trek bikes had gone up so much, it was easy to get good money for the older one's.



The Silstar cranks looked a lot like what was on the Raleigh Super Course and Motobecane GJ, sans the custom script label.
I've seen a few 412 bikes around with Takagi Tourney cranks too, I don't know whether they were sold that way or not but I've seen too many for it to be just coincidence. A google search for a 1980 Trek 412 turns up dozens of bikes with the same cranks. Very few still have their Rigida rims it seems. I seem to remember you had to jump pretty far up the line up in most brands to get anything really high end.

Here's one that just sold on fleabay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Barn-Find-Rare-Ishiwata-022-Trek
This bike is missing the seat post, and saddle, also has non original rims, and it brought $458 in that condition.
The bike the OP asked about is complete, appears to be original except for the wheels and is likely ridable the way it is.
Seeing what something like this just brought, I don't think $400 or $450 is all that far off.
Would I want to pay that for a used bike, probably not, but there are plenty out there who will without hesitation.
Missing paint and wear is par for the course with most used bikes, especially on the east coast. Things rust, bikes get stored outside on the sidewalk chained to a railing for years on end, or stored in barns, chicken coops, or if your lucky a garage.
Perfect only comes one way, New in the box, a bike that sat in some dealer's warehouse for 40 years forgotten and unsold. They do pop up from time to time, but they're rarely cheap. eBay has educated the dealers too these days.

There are plenty of deals, that '82 don't look that bad, but if the OP is looking for a bike in far southern NJ, that one is a 1000 or so mile drive. The bike in WI also says it needs inner tubes, so the owner likely hasn't done any recent maintenance on it either, so even if it were local, the OP would likely be looking at a set of tubes and tires, plus a full overhaul. The difference in price would be eaten up pretty quick. My lbs wants $80 plus tax for a pair of 27" tires and tubes, and those aren't anything special, figure more for something like Panaracer or Continental. Bikes are pricier in his area, and it gets worse the farther north you go towards NY or Phila. There's one in upper PA for the same price, but its not very clean, and likely needs a ton of work.
If the OP buys a bike that needs work for say $275, then has to buy tires, he's at $355, then figure a complete overhaul, both hubs, true both wheels, rebuild the BB, hs, and clean and polish the thing to make it look like it was cared for.
The sign at the LBS here says they charge $150 for a complete service, listing the BB, HS, hubs, and truing if needed. They don't clean, they don't polish. They don't fight with stuck stems, or stuck seat posts either it says.
I'm no pro, but the last bike I went over like that took me a day and a half, between tearing it down, cleaning every last bit, then repacking the hubs, re-tensioning the spokes and truing the wheels, and buffing the paint and all the polished bits back to their original shine, taking both calipers apart and polishing each arm, replacing all four cables, etc. It takes time and attention to detail to make it right.

When I look at the pics of that bike, I see a bike that's clean, regardless of any paint chips and such, its been cleaned and made to look presentable. The wheelset is likely a newer replacement set, even a cheap wheelset is $150+. Someone most likely just bought a ready made wheelset, something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/p/1231687250?iid=121091319860
Which is just fine for a bike like that. If they had gone and hunted down a new old stock wheelset, chances are the wheelset would cost more than the bike is worth and it still wouldn't be 'original'.

When I do a quick search on CL in the OP's area, assuming he's in NJ, I don't see anything any better listed, especially in a larger frame. There's a couple of larger Miyatas for $375 and $475, but both are a lot newer and likely not what the OP is after. Both are also 700c bikes and a a Mangusta? 26" frame, for $500 which is likely too tall. The surrounding area shows nothing at all in the 60cm or larger size in any better condition regardless of the grade or quality of bike.
There's a few newer bikes, later 80's Raleigh models but those are likely too new. Nearly all the bikes listed in his area are pretty rough looking, flat tires, years of dirt and dust, rusty bits, etc. Take a look at what's there and that Trek looks pretty good. I don't see much of anything under $400 regardless of size.

madpogue 

Ouch, I know the bike economy is in the stratosphere, but WOW! Tires on the level of those Bontragers, even 27s, shouldn't be hard to find in the $20-25 apiece range. I found one site with Paselas for $25 apiece. As for the overhaul / tune-up, that value depends on the buyer, whether he can DIY. And the $450 NJ bike has no information about what recent lubrication, etc. work was done. I would make no assumptions

But you raise a good point, with the tires. The OP's wheel/tire size restriction will have a big impact on what is available, and thusly, what prices to expect. Opening up the option of a 700C-equipped bike will make that issue go away, esp since a lot of the 27-inch bikes of that era have since been refitted with 700s. Finding good fresh tires for a 700C-equipped bike will be a lot less of a challenge. The old adage, "be careful what you ask for", comes to mind.

SurferRosa

He doesn't give up, does he? Going back his an alias account to confirm all the misinformation.

What was the end goal here? An attempt to sell his bike to folks that know far more about Treks than he does?

Wackier than anything in the Wacky thread.

TugaDude

If someone has multiple accounts, I'm sure the moderators can sort it out and eliminate one, the other or perhaps both. All it takes is a look at the IP address.

anotherbike

The bike shops near me don't carry 27", and all they seem to have access to is the cheapest gumwall tires. A few even want to charge 'shipping' to order a pair of tires they don't stock. There's a Trek store about an hour from me, the last time I was in there last fall they told me Trek/Bontrager dropped the 27" tires. I wasn't sure if that was true or if they just didn't want to be bothered ordering them. If you order tires online, there's shipping AND sales tax as well. then add in tubes and rim strips. Figure $50 for two tires, plus another $20 for tubes and rims strips, plus shipping and sales tax, and your right at the $80 mark anyhow, although maybe with a slightly better tire. I generally avoid bike shops these days, most don't keep anything I can afford and most don't sell parts these days and the few that do don't have anything of any use to me. Years ago, you could walk into a bike shop, take your old parts with you and walk out with what you came for. Now they tell you to go look on eBay.

To convert a bike like that Trek to 700C, it would mean having to hunt down a pair of vintage long reach calipers, which would likely mean paying top dollar to some eBay seller. If your lucky, you find something new old stock, if not, your looking at rebuilding a pair of old calipers.
The bike with two new wheels, of the right size is a lot more appealing to me than one with the wrong size wheels, and wrong calipers.