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Recumbent advantages

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Recumbent advantages

Old 12-20-18, 11:47 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by robnol View Post
Uci is a joke...... the object of a bike race is to go as fast as possible... why does it matter if its on an upright or recumbent
The object of a bike race is to go as fast as possible ... on a bicycle. Besides them both having two wheels, there isn't much else that is 'bicycle' on my Performer Saki. Nor can just anyone get on and ride it. So while it may be fair to ask the question, maybe we shouldn't denigrate the UCI as a joke. They have preserved bicycle racing in a form that allows bicycles to continue doing it. Riders of recumbents could (and have) form their own 'union' and compete among equals, but the two craft cannot compete fairly in the same events anymore than men and women can compete fairly in the same events. I could argue that there is less difference between a man and a woman than between a UCI legal criterium bike and a lowracer but rules do not allow men to race against women and no one here would argue as to why not.
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Old 12-20-18, 12:04 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by robnol View Post
Really u can't tell the difference between a car race and a bicycle race... were talking about a riding position not fully fairing bikes.... upright df riders need to admit that their riding position is not the fastest
Actually the UCI legal 'full tuck' is pretty damn fast but lets stay with the argument that the bent is faster. I have yet to meet the person that can ride my highracer! So... should we insist that all competitive cyclists ride recumbents and those that can't ... "oh well, sucks to be you ...". I don't know, I think the world is big enough for cyclists who will not (or cannot) ride recumbents to still enjoy the thrills and challenges of competition with others on the same platform. And lets get back to my opening point, not just any old recumbent is faster than a UCI legal road racer. You need the likes of an Optima Baron Lowracer to make a Cat 1 roadie nervous. How many people are there do you think that can ride a Baron well enough to drop a top roadie? Of course there are some. How many is the question. Enough to make this thread a thing? Enough to insist that the UCI legalize them? That would of course finish off the DF racebike industry. The hardcore recumbent fanatics wouldn't shed many tears but ... I don't know ... I always look to the consequences of people getting what they wish for. There always are. Consequences.
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Old 12-20-18, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by robnol View Post
Uci is a joke...... the object of a bike race is to go as fast as possible... why does it matter if its on an upright or recumbent
No, the object of a professional bike race (or auto race) is to provide entertainment to spectators who spend money on the products of the sponsors. The sometimes inane rules are meant to keep competition close because, when there is too much disparity between winners and losers, the activity loses its entertainment value.
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Old 12-20-18, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by robnol View Post
Ive been reading posts about how recumbent are slower on the hills by all the upright riders out there... its true they can be slower on the hills but the uprights refuse to admit how much more aero they are .....I've passed many a paceline on my recumbent.... it seems upright riders can't achieve any real speed or distance solo because of the grossly un aero riding position they ride in.. uprights are better on the hills but recumbent are better on the rest of the road
My observation is that this is highly variable from rider to rider. I know of recumbent riders that can climb faster than me, others that can't.
A couple of guys in the local randonneuring group are having fun with velomobiles, and you have the same issues there versus an unfaired recumbent that recumbents do vs upright bikes. You also have the identical issues with tandems, by the way, so you might question why they don't allow racing tandems while you're at it.
On the "any real speed or distance" item, you might note that the great majority of randonneurs ride upright bikes, even though the rules allow either.

Something else to keep in mind: My perception is that lowracers are faster than regular recumbents, which are in turn faster than trikes. Yet per recent posts, I find that lowracers have just about disappeared from the market, that regular 2-wheel recumbents have severely declined in market share, and that trikes are booming. So maybe it's not all about speed.
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Old 12-20-18, 01:32 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by StephenH View Post
So maybe it's not all about speed.
It absolutely is not all about speed. It should have been clarified much earlier in the thread that the UCI matters very little when the average person goes to buy a bicycle. Even a DF bicycle. Gone are the days when all that could be found in bike stores were copies of Tour de France worthy Reynold's 531 steel, 10 speeds with 52/42 double chainrings and five speed 14-28 freewheels. But even in 2018 I cannot talk to any of the staff at my LBS about recumbents and I certainly can't discuss DF's at the only Recumbent shop close to me. That they let me bring my DF into their shop at all speaks more to their basic good nature as human beings than an understanding of DF culture. I counted exactly four two wheeled recumbents of which two were not for sale. I can't count the trikes. There's at least 25 or 30 on the floor and dozens more on the walls!!! Two Delta's, all the rest Tadpoles. In their expert opinion and experience, the ONLY reason to buy a Delta trike is to link them in tandem formation. Period. Who am I to argue, they are thriving. The same can't be said for some of the DF dealers in town.
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Old 12-20-18, 01:38 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by StephenH View Post
My observation is that this is highly variable from rider to rider. I know of recumbent riders that can climb faster than me, others that can't.
A couple of guys in the local randonneuring group are having fun with velomobiles, and you have the same issues there versus an unfaired recumbent that recumbents do vs upright bikes. You also have the identical issues with tandems, by the way, so you might question why they don't allow racing tandems while you're at it.
On the "any real speed or distance" item, you might note that the great majority of randonneurs ride upright bikes, even though the rules allow either.

Something else to keep in mind: My perception is that lowracers are faster than regular recumbents, which are in turn faster than trikes. Yet per recent posts, I find that lowracers have just about disappeared from the market, that regular 2-wheel recumbents have severely declined in market share, and that trikes are booming. So maybe it's not all about speed.
I think you're spot-on with your observations. It's hard to compare upright climbing to recumbent climbing not only because of those reasons, but because there's a lot of variability in the uprights too. Neither uprights nor recumbents are one monolithic group with similar characteristics across the board.

Highracers are still relatively available and are similar in speed to lowracers. Most people who want speed to to the highracers because they think being low is unsafe on the roads. I have not seen that to be true in over 15 years of riding lowracers.
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Old 12-20-18, 08:00 PM
  #32  
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trikes in my opinion are unsafe on the road ....u can only get over so far before ur riding with one tire in the ditch...with one tire still farther out in the road......my opinion only

Last edited by robnol; 12-20-18 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 12-20-18, 08:02 PM
  #33  
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trikes are a fad expensive too....easier to ride people are to lazy to ride a recumbent bike they feel safer on a trike dispite being a bigger obstacle on the road

Last edited by robnol; 12-20-18 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 12-21-18, 07:18 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by robnol View Post
trikes are a fad expensive too....easier to ride people are to lazy to ride a recumbent bike they feel safer on a trike dispite being a bigger obstacle on the road
Now see, I was find with having a different opinion than you but then you had to stick in the word "lazy". You know very little about me so why do you think you have to define me as "lazy"? Moves you from being an objective poster whom I disagree with to a bigoted poster whose opinions don't matter to me.
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Old 12-21-18, 07:36 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by robnol View Post
trikes are a fad expensive too....easier to ride people are to lazy to ride a recumbent bike they feel safer on a trike dispite being a bigger obstacle on the road
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
Now see, I was find with having a different opinion than you but then you had to stick in the word "lazy". You know very little about me so why do you think you have to define me as "lazy"? Moves you from being an objective poster whom I disagree with to a bigoted poster whose opinions don't matter to me.
@robnol You have no call to make such a remark about trike riders. I have a trike. I enjoy riding it very much, but not because I am lazy. On the contrary, I average over 100 miles per week on my various bikes. The trike is just fun in a different way that 2 wheelers are. Everything has a place in our riding experience. Making disparaging comments about people who have preferences for activities you don't understand is rather poor behaviour, perhaps not "bigoted" as @Retro Grouch describes, but nevertheless not a good quality on your part.

In fact, this whole post that you started is based on your own subjective opinions backed up by a lot of thin, hot air. I hope, in future, to learn how to make a positive contribution to the forum. Also, learn to spell and use proper grammar.
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Old 12-21-18, 08:35 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Hoopdriver View Post
This is a direct result of 1934 UCI regulations...
It will certainly come as news to the Audax Club Parisien that the UCI dictates the cycles everyone rides in competition.

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Old 12-21-18, 10:15 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
rules do not allow men to race against women and no one here would argue as to why not.
That's an interesting point.

The motor paced bicycling record is 183.93 MPH. It's held by Denise Mueller-Korenek, a woman. Obviously men need to have a separate class. She also set the record at age 45 by the way, so the youngsters need age groups too.
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Old 12-21-18, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
That's an interesting point.

The motor paced bicycling record is 183.93 MPH. It's held by Denise Mueller-Korenek, a woman. Obviously men need to have a separate class. She also set the record at age 45 by the way, so the youngsters need age groups too.
It's so obvious as not to be that interesting an observation at all. You seem almost doubtful? I don't know... are you asserting that if a (qualified) man bothered to challenge the motor paced bicycling record he couldn't obviously do better than the current record holder who happens to be a woman? Or that, going forward, if motor paced bicycling speed contests become a thing, that it wouldn't be of benefit (i.e. mandatory) to set up gender and age classes? If Korenek couldn't be assured that the only legal challenges to her record would be by other women, other women at least 35 years old at that, then there wouldn't be much point to spending the millions it took to set it! But one off world record spectacles are not at the heart of this. To be fairly called 'competition' the underdog needs at least an even chance against their competition.
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Old 12-21-18, 11:46 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by tcs View Post
It will certainly come as news to the Audax Club Parisien that the UCI dictates the cycles everyone rides in competition.
By definition an Audax is not competition so the UCI has no jurisdiction. In other events, they do. And we should want it that way.
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Old 12-21-18, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
By definition an Audax is not competition...
There is qualification, they log finishing order and eliminate riders at a certain time cut off. How many legs would a dog have if you called the tail a leg?

That said, lets not miss the obvious.
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Old 12-21-18, 12:28 PM
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Cool video, tho. At 0:57, the lady sitting up on the Bachetta is Vickie, one of our local Lone Star Randonneurs.
The event there is PBP, a 1200k with around 5,000 riders. They have several staggered start times, but I did not realize they had a separate start for the recumbents and tandems. It is noted for being a hilly course. As noted, it is not a competitive event, but does have cutoff time limes, and the slower you ride, the less sleep you'll get.

On the issue of trike riders being lazy, I note that the trike riders I know also ride or have ridden 2-wheel recumbents and upright bikes. It's not like there's one group that rides trikes and nothing else, another that rides 2-wheel recumbents and nothing else, etc. Vickie up there has more recently been riding mountain bikes and gravel bikes.
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Old 12-21-18, 01:30 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by robnol View Post
Ive been reading posts about how recumbent are slower on the hills by all the upright riders out there... its true they can be slower on the hills but the uprights refuse to admit how much more aero they are .....I've passed many a paceline on my recumbent.... it seems upright riders can't achieve any real speed or distance solo because of the grossly un aero riding position they ride in.. uprights are better on the hills but recumbent are better on the rest of the road

rydabent , 12-16-18 09:41 AM
"Plus you have the comfort and the view. I have both a recumbent and a trike. Any more I almost always ride the trike while in town. No unclipping when you stop, and no wobbling around trying to clip in when you ride off. The fact is a trike has to be the most relaxing way to cycle there is.

I find it amazing how many people are still wed to the 1890 DF bike design. It of course is good for single tracking and mountain biking."


I rode Professor David Wilson's recumbent in 1976, my first year of racing. I knew immediately that with light parts and sewups, that was a fast bike! (and had that confirmed a few times over the next couple of years as I would ride with him as he commuted home from work and I headed out for a training session. I may some day go recumbent. But I am going to wait as long as possible because:

I love the dance. Out of the saddle, rocking the bike, being completely one with the bike while nothing is still or quiet. I love hills. Steep hills, long hills, somewhat less steep hills where that dance on a fix gear is just as sweet. I have a long list of favorite rides with real hills. In my crazy days, I used to ride my fix gear through Oakland, CA and up to Juaquim Miller to Skyline Blvd, turn around and return to the island of Alameda. (No sitting going up that climb. And everybody could go faster down.) All my bikes are set up with handlebars and brake levers to be most comfortable in the dance, not the many more miles I do on the flats.

I'll put up with a lot of shortcomings for the "dance".

And I have raced. I've ridden in the close quarters, rubbed elbows, chatted with and followed wheels in the great sport of racing. Yes, it can be done on recumbents, but I don't think you could have the tight bunching, as much contact and the camaraderie that comes with it on the longer bikes. Safer, yes, but a real something would be lost.

Ben
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Old 12-21-18, 03:38 PM
  #43  
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For the record, I rode my Giant Propel upright on Monday and my Specialized road bike yesterday and my lazy bike today.
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Old 12-21-18, 04:09 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr View Post
For the record, I rode my Giant Propel upright on Monday and my Specialized road bike yesterday and my lazy bike today.
Which one was the faster ride? Was it the lazy one?

If it quits raining by tomorrow, I think I'll take my lazy trike for a three county spin.
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Old 12-21-18, 04:37 PM
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I concede to your point it was a poorly articulated point I was making...ive bought 3 recumbent from various people and when I asked them why they were selling it they either said it was to hard to ride or they couldn't get used to it...or they have had to many near wipe outs...if they would have put in the time and effort they could have overcome those issues....they went trike because its "easier to ride"....not my words theirs so it seemed lazy to me

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Old 12-23-18, 08:31 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by robnol View Post
I concede to your point it was a poorly articulated point I was making...ive bought 3 recumbent from various people and when I asked them why they were selling it they either said it was to hard to ride or they couldn't get used to it...or they have had to many near wipe outs...if they would have put in the time and effort they could have overcome those issues....they went trike because its "easier to ride"....not my words theirs so it seemed lazy to me
Understood. You were commenting on their lack of focused motivation to learn how to ride a bent. A lot of people like the idea of something more than the actual thing when they have it. This is human nature and applies to bikes, cars, clothes, jobs, relationships, etc. Substitute the word "fickle" for "lazy" and all is good.

The real advantage in all of this is the good buyers' market for used stuff. I've gotten some excellent deals on bikes and other exercise equipment over the years.
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Old 12-23-18, 09:06 AM
  #47  
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I'm still trying, but a couple of negatives, bike specific, is getting use to the light steering on an underseat model and not being able to see over the tops of cars. I'm going to take it out to a flat mup at some point, but I may be one of those lazy ones.
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Old 12-23-18, 10:08 AM
  #48  
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I don't like underseat steering I feel more in control with standard steering
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Old 12-24-18, 11:12 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
The object of a bike race is to go as fast as possible ... on a bicycle. Besides them both having two wheels, there isn't much else that is 'bicycle' on my Performer Saki. Nor can just anyone get on and ride it. So while it may be fair to ask the question, maybe we shouldn't denigrate the UCI as a joke. They have preserved bicycle racing in a form that allows bicycles to continue doing it. Riders of recumbents could (and have) form their own 'union' and compete among equals, but the two craft cannot compete fairly in the same events anymore than men and women can compete fairly in the same events. I could argue that there is less difference between a man and a woman than between a UCI legal criterium bike and a lowracer but rules do not allow men to race against women and no one here would argue as to why not.
"perserved" If we had that kind of preservation, as I said we would still be driving model Ts, riding trains with steam engines, and flying Bi-planes. The point is to keep riders even. So what difference does it make what kind of bike they ride?
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Old 12-24-18, 11:19 AM
  #50  
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And yes the UCI is a joke for allowing all the fantastic plastic bikes they allow now. They are far more aero than a plain steel tubing bike. They simply have become two faced.
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