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Question for DIY bike builders

Old 09-11-20, 11:36 AM
  #26  
Ironfish653
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Originally Posted by cvrle1
As an example I have 9 speed cassette right now, and would really like to swap it for 11 speed. But to do that I need to swap a lot of other parts as well to make it work. Was told dont bother, just get bike with 11 speed cassette, it will be easier and cheaper. It seems that there are always going to be more than 1 schools of thought, if you will, about upgrading vs buying newer or building from ground up vs buying new.
Ah, I see you've been introduced to the compatibility curve. In terms of Shimano (I don't use Campy or SRAM) the compatibility follows the number of 'speeds' in the cassette. If you have a 9-sp cassette, you need a 9-sp shifter; doesn't matter if it's Sora, Tiagra, 105 or Ultegra, 9-sp is 9-sp. Now, you can also use a 10-sp derailleur with a 9-sp cassette and shifter; you'll still only have 9-speeds but it works fine. Likewise, you can put a 9-sp cassette on a 10-sp wheel, but not vice-versa.

So, in your example, to fit an 11-sp cassette on your bike, you'd need an 11-sp compatible wheel, an 11-sp shifter and RD, as well as cranks / chainrings to fit the super-narrow 11-sp chain. I haven't priced it out, but i'm guessing it's more than you paid for that R-600?

What was driving the want for 11-sp? More climbing gears? Bike not 'fast' enough? If it's speed, there are still new and NOS 9-sp cassettes readily available; Maybe a different spread of gears would be more to your liking. You can also try swapping the triple crank for a road double with bigger chainrings. Either of those could be done without disrupting the rest of the drivetrain.

Another way to look at upgrades, is to ask "What do I want this bike to do (differently)?" rather than "I want to put X part on my bike. Will it fit?" Otherwise, you're just throwing parts at it, to see what sticks.
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Old 09-11-20, 12:20 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653
...
What was driving the want for 11-sp? More climbing gears? Bike not 'fast' enough? If it's speed, there are still new and NOS 9-sp cassettes readily available; Maybe a different spread of gears would be more to your liking. You can also try swapping the triple crank for a road double with bigger chainrings. Either of those could be done without disrupting the rest of the drivetrain.
Main reason for wanting is due to hills around where I live and ride. Now mind you these arent large, long climbs by any means, but for someone who hasnt ridden bike in long time as myself, and who is out of shape (not heavy person, just not in physically good shape) these climbs are pain. I am in the lowest possible gear, and it is a chore. I always make it and it feels great knowing I did it, but I am out of breath once I am done, and my heart rate is really high. Also, there are much steeper hills that I go long way around, so it would be helpful to have more gears once I feel like I can attempt these one day
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Old 09-11-20, 01:15 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by cvrle1
Main reason for wanting is due to hills around where I live and ride.
Ah, now we're getting somewhere. Your bike already has a triple on it, so it can be made to climb pretty well. The easiest way to make your bike climb 'easier' is to swap out the rear cassette for one with a larger 'big' cog. Yours appears to be a 28t, so it's already a pretty deep gear. You could probably fit one with a 32t, without any other changes, and there are 34t and 36t cassettes available, but you'd probably have to switch to a 9-sp MTB derailleur, like the Shimano XT M770. (Hey, look: 9-sp compatibility!)

One thing to think about going into the deep gears like that, is that while it will decrease the effort to turn the cranks, it'll slow your 'ground speed' and increase your leg speed (cadence) at the same time. Learning that balance of how hard you can push the pedals and how long you can keep up a certain cadence is the key. The only way to find it, is to, well, go out and ride up a hill a bunch of times. Not much substitute for practice there. Also, learn how to progressively work through the gears while you're climbing. You don't have to dump everything to the granny at the bottom of the hill, but don't wait until you're about to stall out before you try to force a shift, either.
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Old 09-11-20, 02:40 PM
  #29  
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I am in the lowest possible gear, and it is a chore.
It may be that you'd be better off taking the energy you'd put into building a bike and putting it into more riding. The more you climb these hills, the lower your HR and respiration will be at the top. Also, the better you can climb these hills, the shorter the bigger hills will look. BTW, if you go for a larger rear cog, you may need a new derailleur if the cog exceeds your current der's capacity. I know my der has a rated capacity of up to 28 teeth. Maybe I could get 30 to work ... 32 or 34 I doubt.

I recommend that you work on parts before you build up a frame - learn to overhaul cone/ball/race systems, build wheels, adjust cables/brakes/derailleurs. The bike you love needs maintenance. Learning to do it will save you time and money, and saving time means more miles.

BUT ... you don't need an excuse to build up a frame. It's fun. It'll give you a sense of accomplishment. It's just that many of us wouldn't go through the exercise unless it would get us something we can't get in an easier way.
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Old 09-11-20, 03:00 PM
  #30  
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If you only have one bike, it may make sense to have a backup bike that is similar to the one that you currently ride. Since you like your current bike somethings are easier, type of frame and size.
As others have stated building your own bike is more expensive unless you have a lot of spare parts that you can reuse, that's what I have, a large parts collection.

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Old 09-11-20, 03:33 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by philbob57
It may be that you'd be better off taking the energy you'd put into building a bike and putting it into more riding. The more you climb these hills, the lower your HR and respiration will be at the top. Also, the better you can climb these hills, the shorter the bigger hills will look. BTW, if you go for a larger rear cog, you may need a new derailleur if the cog exceeds your current der's capacity. I know my der has a rated capacity of up to 28 teeth. Maybe I could get 30 to work ... 32 or 34 I doubt.

I recommend that you work on parts before you build up a frame - learn to overhaul cone/ball/race systems, build wheels, adjust cables/brakes/derailleurs. The bike you love needs maintenance. Learning to do it will save you time and money, and saving time means more miles.

BUT ... you don't need an excuse to build up a frame. It's fun. It'll give you a sense of accomplishment. It's just that many of us wouldn't go through the exercise unless it would get us something we can't get in an easier way.
What you say makes sense, and that is what I am doing as well. I ride as much as possible almost every day so far. Issue is that I wont be riding during fall/winter and parts of spring most likely as they suck here. It gets cold, wet, rainy and just plain ugly and miserable out here from mid october till like may lol. I just cant see my self riding in rain and wet weather if I am being honest. If I were to build anything or upgrade, etc, it would be during this time period and down time for sure. Not this year, but generally speaking.
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Old 09-11-20, 05:08 PM
  #32  
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I think we can all agree (as people who just like riding around on bikes) that it's about the journey not the destination. Building a bike just adds to that. Won't save you money, but it will give you much enjoyment to hand-select every component and carefully assemble. That said, there are 2 kinds of people in this world: those who like to wrench and those who don't. Ask yourself which one you are.
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Old 09-11-20, 06:29 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by jp911
I think we can all agree (as people who just like riding around on bikes) that it's about the journey not the destination. Building a bike just adds to that. Won't save you money, but it will give you much enjoyment to hand-select every component and carefully assemble. That said, there are 2 kinds of people in this world: those who like to wrench and those who don't. Ask yourself which one you are.
+1, I like to wrench as much as I like to ride. When I tour with my friend, I am the wrench.
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Old 09-11-20, 06:46 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653
Ah, I see you've been introduced to the compatibility curve. In terms of Shimano (I don't use Campy or SRAM) the compatibility follows the number of 'speeds' in the cassette. If you have a 9-sp cassette, you need a 9-sp shifter; doesn't matter if it's Sora, Tiagra, 105 or Ultegra, 9-sp is 9-sp. Now, you can also use a 10-sp derailleur (Not a 10S Mt RD or Tiagra 4700) with a 9-sp cassette and shifter; you'll still only have 9-speeds but it works fine. Likewise, you can put a 9-sp cassette on a 10-sp wheel, but not vice-versa (Freehubs are 8-9-10S compatible.You certainly can put a 10S cassette on a 9S wheel) ..

See above clarification. Strictly Shimano components.
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Old 09-12-20, 10:39 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by dedhed
See above clarification. Strictly Shimano components.
In fact, a "9-speed wheel", having a 9-speed cassette just might be an 11-speed wheel, with a spacer behind the cassette. Mine is like that. One of those details to research, that you don't even know is a detail without the research.
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Old 09-13-20, 05:46 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton
In fact, a "9-speed wheel", having a 9-speed cassette just might be an 11-speed wheel, with a spacer behind the cassette. Mine is like that. One of those details to research, that you don't even know is a detail without the research.
And it's possible to have an 11s cassette on a 8-10 hub.
https://www.lascoconcept.com/en/11s-cassette/
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Old 09-13-20, 07:40 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton
In fact, a "9-speed wheel", having a 9-speed cassette just might be an 11-speed wheel, with a spacer behind the cassette. Mine is like that. One of those details to research, that you don't even know is a detail without the research.
But if you’re talking about an OE wheelset on a 7/8/9-sp era bike, like the OP we’re responding to, it’s more than likely NOT a 11-sp wheel.
I’d find it highly unlikely that a mid-range Y2K Cannondale would have been fitted with a 11-sp wheelset, because it wasn’t a thing yet.

Probably why the OP was told by his shop, that a 11-sp cassette wouldn’t fit on his bike, without making a lot of other changes.
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Old 09-13-20, 10:59 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653
But if you’re talking about an OE wheelset on a 7/8/9-sp era bike, like the OP we’re responding to, it’s more than likely NOT a 11-sp wheel.
I’d find it highly unlikely that a mid-range Y2K Cannondale would have been fitted with a 11-sp wheelset, because it wasn’t a thing yet.

Probably why the OP was told by his shop, that a 11-sp cassette wouldn’t fit on his bike, without making a lot of other changes.
For sure, if the wheels are the original ones. A wheel is, can be, the least expensive part of all that though.

I'm mainly still going on about the need to double-check details if he builds his own. I would check whether that wheel really is incompatible with 11-speed, just so that I know what my options are.
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Old 09-13-20, 11:15 AM
  #39  
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I think it depends on what you are hoping to get from the experience. If you want to learn about how bikes and bike components work, how to maintain your bike, etc, I think building your own bike is a great idea. It's never too early or late to start building your own bike(s). You may think you know little about it now, but you probably know more than you think you do. Bicycles really aren't that complicated. Besides, even when you do think you know everything there is to know, you will encounter something that will totally baffle you. Have fun!
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Old 09-13-20, 08:37 PM
  #40  
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Thanks once again for all the info. Wheels that I have are Gipiemme Tecno 024. From quick google search, they are 8,9 or 10 spd wheels, so no go on the 11 speed cassette. Other than learning how to do things myself, one more reason for wanting to build myself is that I dont have to spend lots of money right away all in one shot. I get that in the end cost between building myself and buying complete bike will be about the same, but if I am to do this I would take my time. This would allow me to space out all the purchases over longer period of time, and look for some deals perhaps. This way it makes it easier on the wallet as I wouldnt blow 2,3, $4000 all in one go. It makes it easier to spend that much over longer period for me at least.
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Old 09-14-20, 07:12 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by cvrle1
Main reason for wanting is due to hills around where I live and ride. Now mind you these arent large, long climbs by any means, but for someone who hasnt ridden bike in long time as myself, and who is out of shape (not heavy person, just not in physically good shape) these climbs are pain. I am in the lowest possible gear, and it is a chore. I always make it and it feels great knowing I did it, but I am out of breath once I am done, and my heart rate is really high. Also, there are much steeper hills that I go long way around, so it would be helpful to have more gears once I feel like I can attempt these one day
You don't need "more" gear choices; you need more purposeful ones. This can also be accomplished with a modest 2 x 6 setup, using half-step gearing. Select the rear % spacing (smaller - larger)/larger to be in the 11-14% change throughout from cog to cog. Then select the front chainrings to be a 5-6% jump between them, adjusting the range to bridge the center of desired gear inch range. That's how we did it long ago. Each half step is found by changing the front derailleur. Works a charm.
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Old 09-14-20, 11:23 AM
  #42  
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Interesting replies. I have build almost all of my 20 bikes including most of the wheel sets. Have 5 sub-15 pound complete bikes that I have built. No special training. Never had a mechanical issue. If you can adjust your brakes and derailleur on you current bike you can build your own. Wheels are slightly more difficult as tensioning is important, but still can be done by novices safely. A little reading on the subject can be very useful. Actually right now I am frustrated because I am looking for a Zipp 303 rim to build a rear wheel because I have a spare 303 front. Zipp is not selling rims anymore, just complete wheels. Bummer. Checking Ebay for something I can use even if I have to swap out the rear hub for my NOS Zipp 217.

For me building my own is also more than rewarding as I know everything about the bike and know its service history completely.
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Old 09-14-20, 12:41 PM
  #43  
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"Building from scratch" means buying materials, not components.
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Old 09-14-20, 03:48 PM
  #44  
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"Building from scratch" means buying materials, not components.
There's always one...........
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Old 09-21-20, 02:01 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653
There's always one...........
Sadly, no. There is almost never another genuine scratch builder to correspond with.
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Old 09-21-20, 10:37 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by TricycleTom
Sadly, no. There is almost never another genuine scratch builder to correspond with.
https://www.bikeforums.net/framebuilders/
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Old 09-22-20, 04:05 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by TricycleTom
"Building from scratch" means buying materials, not components.
We should instead call it "assembling from scratch."

I guess I'll have to start mining my own ore and smelting my own alloys.
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Old 09-22-20, 04:34 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
We should instead call it "assembling from scratch."

I guess I'll have to start mining my own ore and smelting my own alloys.
I used composite materials. The equipment is far cheaper than with metals.
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