gravelschlub

Howdy, y'all-

Time to put Ye Olde Space Horse (canti brake version) out to pasture. Spousal unit has approved the procurement of a new gravel whip. I know, I know - "buy what your LBS offers" and all that, and I'd be happy to, but they just don't have much to offer. My local shops include the usual Trek and Specialized company stores, and while both the shops are perfectly wonderful, AFAIK neither company has announced GRX-equipped models, which I have my heart set on. And I'm just not a Trek or Specialized kind of rider, knowhatImean? So I'm looking for a bike that fits these:

-Any metal (Al, Fe, Ti) is fine. I just don't like carbon frames for gravel.
-Carbon fork. I'm fickle and inconsistent, all right?
-Regular old normal parts. No weird pivots or springs or proprietary shocks. I'm looking askance at you, hoverbar...
-Threaded bottom bracket. BSA or T47
-2x11 GRX600 shifters, derailleur, etc. 46/30 crank. No need for electronic shifting.
-Clearance for at least 650bx47. I'm planning on using two wheelsets, one with 700x35/38 tires and one with 650bx47 or so.
-thru axle front and back
- <$3k USD

My only local candidates are the new All City Cosmic Stallion GRX (only fits 650x42, strangely) or the 2020 Kona Rove NRB DL (toothpaste welds!). Definite possibilities. That said, what else should I be looking at online? Canyon and Cannondale only have carbon GRX models. I have no idea where I'd find a Felt Broam or Breed, or Scott Speedster. Any other models fit what I'm looking for? Many, many thanks.

Cpn_Dunsel

Felt Breed available online from Biketech (Pittsburgh) and they will ship (for a small fee). Clearance sale still available on 2019 on some sizes ($500 below MSRP). Great bike.

I just got one about a month ago. Can't say enough good things about it. It checks off all boxes with exception of GRX and runs a 32/48 crank w/11-34. The 32/34 gives a nice 24 gear inch climbing gear. Anything lower and its hard to keep a bike straight, for me. Going too slowly I may as well walk it. Shimano 105 groupset. 650b x 47 WTB Byway.

I real like the GRX a lot but I decided to wait another few seasons and let the pros iron out all the kinks and be the beneficiary of that rather then be an active part of giving feedback.

It fits my area and uses perfectly (Southern Appalachian Forests). Steep, steep, steep and very little flat.

Marcus_Ti

Salsa Vaya comes to mind, any QBP store can get them:
https://salsacycles.com/bikes/vaya/2020_vaya_grx_600

Getting Ti or Al will be tricky, today with GRX600 (105 equivalent) or better.

If you're not too proud to ride a BikesDirect bike they have even Titanium in your price bracket with R8000 but not GRX:
https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...ke-road-ta.htm
https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/cross_bikes.htm

mstateglfr 

https://allcitycycles.com/bikes/cosmic_stallion
Cosmic stallion is 700x42 or 650x46, according to their site. So a 47 would fit fine since they allow for room.

https://fairlightcycles.com/product/...v=7516fd43adaa
This is $2888usd if you buy built from them. Or it could be cheaper with the same quality if you bought the frame and spec'd it with new parts off overseas and Ebay sellers. Just have to compare.

Jamis renegade is a steel frame with carbon fork too.

There is value in buying a frameset and building it up. You get what you want in all parts of the bike instead of having to swap out some parts(pedals, saddle, bars) and spend more for it.

gravelschlub

Thanks - I should probably describe the riding in my part of Michigan, though. Flat, flat, flat, and very little steep. I can do 50 mile rides with less than 1000 ft of climbing. Come to think of it, I did a metric century this year (paved) with under 400 ft of climbing. So while there are a few short 10% climbs near me, 99.45% of the time I'll be on the flats and being able to choose between my 15,16, and 17T gears will be a lot more important.

gravelschlub

There is so much I like about the 2020 Vaya GRX, and I'm REALLY trying to not have tiny-detail-exaggeration syndrome, but the back wheel is QR. Over the entire time I own the bike I'm sure it'll annoy me about five times, but with disc brakes, I'm having trouble looking past this. Give me thru axles. I know, I know - I'm being picky. So much else is right with the Vaya, though.

re: bikesdirect - I'm having trouble justifying to myself why I want/need a bike more expensive than the steel whipshots w/GRX. So much bike for so little money. I'd love to support my LBS, but if I'm going to end up buying online anyway...

gravelschlub

re: Cosmic Stallion, check out the Q&A here: https://allcitycycles.com/bikes/cosmic_stallion_grx
Minor detail that the claimed 650b tire clearance is only 42mm, while the 700c clearance is 47mm due to chainstay dimpling. Not sure if the frame was updated for 2020, or if this applies to prior years as well. I'm waffling on how big a deal that is for me.

Out of simple laziness I've been trying to buy a complete bike, but the secan is just so dang nice....

katsup

GRX is still new and manufactures are just now releasing bikes. It may be easier to find the frame you want then install GRX on it. Bonus points would be given for having a unique build.

superdex

Niner RLT Steel 2 star.

https://ninerbikes.com/products/rlt-...29543507394658

mstateglfr 

The secan is under your budget as a full build with grx.

As for the Cosmic Stallion link you provided, I would be shocked if that isnt a typo. A 42mm 700c clearance is a 47mm 650b clearance on frames...its relatively common max sizes for a lot of gravel frames.
They just flipped wheel size and tire clearance.

Also really surprised they now use a Columbus futura fork instead of their in house qbp whiskey brand. I love the look, style, and paint of All City frames, but they continually make me scratch my head on random things. It's usually how little value a full built bike is compared to building up yourself(home build often costing less for higher quality), but this one is really something I would like to learn more about. Super curious why a Columbus futura fork is used.

gravelschlub

That is a little bit of a surprise - I guess I'd written off fairlight assuming there was no way it would be under $3k. Seems to check all my boxes, and the blue is bee-yooo-tiful. Not sure I want to buy a bike from an overseas seller, though. A chin-scratcher...

That is what I thought at first, but this is a quote from the Q&A section on the GRX model's page:

Question: "Kind of confused by the tire compatibility. It's labeled as compatible with 700x47 or 650x42, is that a backwards typo? Is it supposed to be 700x42 and 650x47?"
Answer: "The stated clearance is correct. Because of the location of the dimples in the chainstays the largest tire can be achieved in a 700c diameter, the smaller 650b diameter wheel moves the tire back relative to that chainstay dimple and reduces clearance to 650b x 42mm."

I'm curious if this is a "claimed" 42mm that would really be just fine with 47mm.

gravelschlub

I do normally build my bikes from the frame up but hoped to just buy this one complete. I'm realizing the cheapest route may be to strip one of the $1200 aluminum bikes direct models with the GRX components I want - same price as the whole GRX groupsets I've found. One of the frames I lust after, if it weren't for the toothpaste-welds, is the Cinelli Zydeco in <gasp> aluminum - I mean, c'mon, this paint job! Actually, after looking at aluminum bikes all night, these welds don't look half bad.

​​​​​​

gravelschlub

PF30 bottom bracket. I really want to be able to say yes to a Niner but a threaded bottom bracket is non-negotiable for me. The price seems high for that level of build, too.

mstateglfr 

Given I own a Fairlight, I am biased, but I found the ordering process to be super easy. I emailed with the company probably 7 times over a few months before ordering and they were prompt and complete in the responses every time. I emailed with one of the owners, Dom who designed the bikes, and picked his brain about some of the geometry decisions(trail, bottom bracket drop, and general move away from current trendy slack front end) as well as tubing decisions(shaped 4130 stays instead of branded tubing and why MTB 853 tubing was used for the down tube). He was really up front and open to discuss everything and it was a really cool conversation.
The frame arrived in stock a couple weeks sooner than I expected and it delivered to me without issue. The packing is really well designed with minimal but very effective packaging(compared to the 5 other brands I have unpacked before).
The only downside is their small volume means there is lead time. But its winter and if you can wait until Feb/March for the bike, then the lead time isnt an issue.
Here are a couple pics of the packing. Its minimal, but you can see the frame is held vertical thru the bottom bracket and up top by some cardboard with a bit of the top tube poking thru the brace to secure it. Then its all covered in bubble wrap and the head tube has some foam too, and the fork box is placed on top. Super stable.






As for the All City Cosmic Stallion tire clearance- well that is nuts! It basically is different than most every gravel frame you see. Looks like AC wanted to have more 700c tire room and designed the frame around that, which helps explain why they are using the Columbus fork instead of their sister Whiskey brand fork. The Columbus CX fork(which is the one used, based on shape in pics) has 700x47 clearance and the Whiskey fork is something like 42mm.
I often do wonder how many riders that have 2 wheelsets, one 700 for road and one 650 for gravel, actually swap wheels out every time. Perhaps AC felt it isnt happening as often as riders initially intend and just designed the frame to accept the largest tire possible in 700c. This could especially be true if they have found most riders who are their tarket market are just using 700c for gravel.
Columbus Tubi




Good luck sorting out what you want- its a sea of options out there! Cool discussion, I think this is the first the new model year Cosmic Stallion tire clearance has been discussed.

Cpn_Dunsel

Indeed. The press fit bottom bracket is a wallet lock.

Trek has even gone to a T47 on its higher end CC bikes now and soon it will be the industry standard. Pressfit has been a boondoggle since its inception and the only reason it exists is because it boosts corporate profits and keeps bike shop mechanics busy with work.

Marcus_Ti

I've been waiting and watching for that "soon" to happen for well.....When did Chris King announce the open use of T47? 2014? 2015? It only took....5? Years for any major OEM to adopt it. Granted having anyone of the biggest adopt it is molto bene.

gravelschlub

Thanks for the unboxing photos - I don't doubt the quality of the bike or the company at all, just thinking about the potential for additional hiccups with an international purchase. I'm really giving Fairlight a closer look now.

gravelschlub

Exactly - in my area, the gravel riding is on hardpacked dirt roads with nearly no climbing and only occasional sand, loose gravel, or washboard. I have 35mm Gravel King SKs on my current gravel bike with no desire to go bigger for my usual riding, but would like to be able to take on easier single track and some of the early/late season muddy races with fatter tires and more tread. Decisions, decisions.

csrpenfab

Step up to a Niner RLT 9 RDO then. Great wheels mfg threaded BB. Mine has been bulletproof over 3k hard miles. Can be had with full Ultegra for under 3k unless you absolutely have to have GRX.

Steve B.

Also consider the Cannondale Topstone aluminum 105.

Has a 105 group excepting the FSA 30/46 crank with a BSA B-bracket. A GRX 11 spd. 812 rear derailer gets you to a 42 tooth max on a cassette, but the 105 can handle an11-36. 105 is the (IMO) the most cost effective group in use currently.

The bike has a lot of eyelets for 3 water bottles, rear rack or fender, top tube bag, etc..., it’s a well thought out bike,

It’s also $1750 so with the money saved you could do a nice set of extra wheels.

bonsai171

Excelsports has them for $2900. Check it out!

Dave

csrpenfab

Yep, that’s where I got mine. At that price it’s like getting the frame for free. Excellent build with full Ultegra RX800 group with clutched rear mech.

The bottom bracket says “PF30”, but it’s not a press fit. It’s an excellent Wheels Mfg threaded BB:

gravelschlub

According to the website all models are out of stock. Shame - that would be a pretty good deal.

csrpenfab

I think I scored one of their last 56cm bikes four months ago... Jenson USA has the Niner RDO RLT for $2500 with their own build, not quite as sweet as Excel’s 4 star build, but still a pretty damn fine bike.

https://www.jensonusa.com/Niner-RLT-...xclusive-Build

mstateglfr 

One that hasnt been mentioned, but meets almost all of your wants- Norco Search. The only missing thing is a threaded BB. No idea why they needed to use PF on steel and aluminum frames, but its easily remedied with a threaded adapter.
One uses an Easton crank, but thats quality and has the range you want.

https://www.norco.com/bikes/2020/dir.../search-xr-s1/
https://www.norco.com/bikes/2020/dir.../search-xr-s2/
https://www.norco.com/bikes/2020/dir.../search-xr-a1/
https://www.norco.com/bikes/2020/dir.../search-xr-a2/