mattbur

I'm just getting into touring so I've been reading as much about it as I can. Most things are self explanatory but I did notice one thing that isn't.

Going thru the sticky thread "pictures of your loaded bikes" I noticed a fair number of bikes with all the loaded bags on the front end of the bike. Is there a reason for this? Is it or could it be for handling?

The wife and I canoe camped for many years and a properly trimmed canoe was a must with only a couple exceptions that I can think of.

So what's the deal with front loaded bikes??

Thanks guys, Tony

and ladies

boomhauer

If you stand on the pedals and go uphill you will see that front load panniers are very stable compared to nothing on the front.
I personally don't do this but have tried it and I get it.

gauvins

I tour either as the designated mule (i.e. carrying all luggage for a family of 4 -- my wife trails the little one), or solo/duo.

Under the first scenario, it means a trailer (extraWheel) + front and rear panniers. I put as little weight as I can in the rear panniers.

Under the second scenario, I've transitioned from rear to front panniers, for three reasons :

1. It does handle (much) better. Rear panniers only put excessive weight on the rear wheel. I know of one very short yet extremely steep section (over a bridge) where I had to be careful to prevent the front wheel from lifting up.

2. As it distributes weight better, it is probably being gentler on the rear wheel (better for tires and spokes).

3. It promotes frugality. Our Ortlieb front rollers hold 25 litres, vs 40 for the back rollers. We're able to carry all equipment/clothing for self supported touring. Food is stored on top of the rear rack (in a bear bag), which is preferable anyway because food volume/weight is fluctuating and not so easy to balance across panniers.

mstateglfr 

Its more stable overall. Steering is stabilized and climbing is much easier as there isnt as much swaying when rocking while out of the saddle.
and there is already a bunch o weight on the back half of the bike, might as well toss some more up front to balance it out.


There is no right or wrong way when it comes to how a bike is loaded down(or is it up?) with gear- whatever works for you is best.

mattbur

Boomhauer, Gauvins, Mstategflr,

Thanks guys. Yea, I can see a wheelie in the works with too much on the back...never gave that much thought at all. I suppose I'll need to play with it a bit and try things out. Maybe the heavier gear up front and some light weight items in the back.

Thanks, Tony

Tourist in MSN

It depends a lot on the bike design and geometry too. What works on one bike might not work so well on another.

mattbur

Gauvins,

I noticed in your list of bikes that you have a customized LHT. I just bought a Surly Disc Trucker on Saturday which I was told was a LHT but with disc brakes.

What kind of customization was done on your LHT?? Is there some things you found that encouraged this custom work? Are there any other changes you'd make?

Just curious, Tony

mattbur

You're likely right about the design and geometry. But I do see bike getting light up front with too much in the rear.

Thanks

Cyclist0094

This is true along with other factors. Many folks are using cross bikes for touring which have shorter(<45cm) chainstays , Many newer racks are offset to the rear of the axle to compensate for shorter chainstays and/or disc brakes. Many racks are mounted way too high.( should just clear the top of the fender or ~1" above the tire). Many panniers have poor or non existed lower hooks to keep the bags from swaying. Traditionally tourists sat an spun the pedals in a low gear up steep hills, not stand on the pedals and rock the bike like a sprinter.

All of that said touring bikes do handle better with a fore/aft balanced load.

Tourist in MSN

A really good photo gallery is at this link:
https://www.pbase.com/canyonlands/fullyloaded

But a lot of the people that submitted their photos are on really long tours and are carrying heavier than average loads, so don't jump to the conclusion that these bikes are "average". Since the photos are a global collection you will see brands there that are not imported to USA.

It also is a factor of just how solid the bike is. Several years ago I did a group tour with Adventure Cycling. One guy had a Co Motion Americano with S&S couplers and he was carrying the really big Arkel rear panniers, no front panniers. I asked how it handled with that heavy of a rear load. He said that the bike had such a solid frame that it really did not matter how he distributed the load. And that since he broke the bike down to fit in the S&S case (an airline acceptable 26" X 26" X 10" case) that he decided to leave the front rack and front panniers home to reduce the amount of stuff he had to get onto the airliner and to reduce assembly and disassembly time.

A few months ago I had some very heavy panniers that I weighted down with bricks to test a new bike I was building up. Just for the heck of it I put all the bricks in only the rear panniers and put those on my Thorn Nomad expedition bike. This bike has a really solid heavy steel frame. I took it out for a spin in the neighborhood and was surprised that it handled that much of a rear weight very very well. I know my other bikes would not have handled that much weight very well on just the rear. But the Nomad has very robust frame tubing.

***

I agree with your comments on some rear racks being too far back or too high. And I would go further to say that some racks are flimsy by design.

I new bike I built up a couple months ago has the rear rack mounts at the rear dropouts about an inch and a half higher than on most other bikes, thus the rack is boosted up that much higher. But fortunately I have a rack with the lower rails to hang the panniers from so the panniers are mounted at a reasonable height.

gauvins

After reading extensively I came to the conclusion that the LHT was the safest bet for a touring bike. I also knew that I wanted a Brooks saddle, butterfly handlebars, and v-brakes. So I purchased the frame and selected components.

The short answer is LHT built with Shimano's XT trekking group (780).

The longer answer would list several tweaks that I'll be happy to share if you think it could be useful.

mattbur

I just bought this bike Saturday. It was purchased new in October 2016 but the guy wanted a recumbent for medical reasons. I think I got a pretty good deal on it.

I'll have to google "butterfly handlebars"?? lol I'm not sure what kind of saddle I have but it's comfortable. It has disc brakes and they are a first for me. That's pretty cool building up your bike like that. Also has bar end shifter for rear and friction shifter on down tube for front chain ring. The bar end shifter is a first for me and so far I like that...but I don't care for the friction shifter and will investigate better options for that this winter,

If it's not a problem I'd like to hear about the other tweeks you made to the LHT.

Thanks Tony

mattbur

Here's a pic of my Surly Disc Trucker.

Except for the trunk bag and water bottle this is the way I got the bike. Notice the friction shifter on the down tube. Right now the friction shifter it the only thing I don't like about the bike. Well, the other thing is the Presta air valve. I've never had or used them and can't figure out how to get the air in. I'll end up going to you-tube for a Presta video.

bradtx

Tony, For the tire valve, air pressure within the tube keeps the Presta valve sealed. To add air you simply unscrew the valve and attach the pump head, which must be a Presta style and pump to the desired pressure. There are adaptors that screw onto the valve to use a schrader valve pump head.

Often the heavy items are loaded in the front panniers and bulky items at the rear. A bicycle is typically a 60-40% bias on the rear when unloaded. Trial and error is the best way to determine what's best for you.

Brad

Tourist in MSN

The bar end shifters, the front is typically friction too. You might be able to find the part that could convert your existing friction front shifter to the bar end position which would be the cheapest option. Since some people do not use front derailleurs, occasionally you see a front bar end shifter on Ebay for not too much becasue teh rear ones are more in demand.

Assuming you have a triple crankset, a friction bar end shifter for the front is pretty easy to get used to. The middle chainring position you eventually get used to knowing exactly where to put the lever for that gear with muscle memory.

I did not see a photo, not sure if it is my computer or if it is missing.

Presta is pretty easy to figure out. I prefer Presta over Shrader.

djb

as someone who has done canoe trips, yes, in general a balanced load on a bike is similar to in a canoe.
Yes, some bikes are very stiff and can handle fine with only a rear load, I have an old mtn bike that is like the examples mentioned earlier in that it rides quite well even with one pannier full of groceries, and reasonably well with two full travel panniers on the rear also.

in general though, like a canoe, your bike will ride better and feel more balanced with front and rear panniers.
When you start trying some test rides with four panniers on, take the time and play with how you load the panniers and observe how the bike feels with diff weights front/back.
I have always used my guessometer hand weighing for having the panniers close-ish for weights side to side, both front and back, but again, do a bunch of test rides and you'll see what works better and what you are comfortable with, it aint rocket science and you'll see quickly what feels better.

*as you have never ridden a loaded bike, it may take a bit longer for you to get a feel for things, no matter how you load your panniers, it will feel pretty weird and cumbersome at first in any case....but you get used to it, just like a loaded canoe vs empty.

ps, re the whole canoe bow/stern equal load thing, on bikes, there is always more weight on the rear wheel due to our body position, so putting having at least some weight more up front with front panniers helps with having not so much weight rearward. Being a real light guy, I've always been able to get away with less weight up front and life is easier on my rear wheel as I probably weigh 40-50lbs less than a lot of fellows. That said, more recently I've been putting more weight up front and it works fine also.

I would also add that as canoeists, transitioning to bike touring is pretty easy in terms of being aware of packing and what you need/dont need. With the internet, its much easier for folks to see packing lists of other bike tourers, but back when I started bike touring long before the internet, I just applied more or less canoe camping thinking, and it worked fine.

Cyclist0094

Ride it for awhile before you change the shifter. You won't be changing the front that often and once you get use to it, it becomes second nature. Besides it gives you that minimalist-retro-cool look .

Everybody looks like a monkey humping a basketball the first time they deal with a presta valve.

gauvins

Also called "trekking" handlebars. One example below. Reason was that I didn't expect to ride in the drops and wanted more real estate to install a computer head, light, bell and whatnot. Turned out that the real, major, benefit is to have all controls exactly where your hands typically stand. Rapid fire shifters significantly promote frequent shifting, which makes it much easier to maintain cadence. The one possible drawback is that the LHT's geometry is conceived with drop-down bars in mind. Even with a longer stem, trekking handlebars inner position is barely ahead of the steering tube.



(1) XT's trekking drivetrain is 48-36-26 x 11-34. I've swapped the 26 smaller chainring for a 22, and mixed Miche's Primato sprockets with Shimano's XT -- I rarely used 48 x 11 or 48 x 13 and thought that the steps were exceedingly large. So my current cassette is now 15-16-17-18-19-21-23-26-30-34. This makes a big and positive difference for me. You can get a visual impression here. Derailleurs handle this configuration without much of an issue (I do not ride on small-small, typically will ride the small chainring on the top half of the cassette, and the large chainring on the bottom half, spending most of the time on the middle ring). One side benefit is that Miche's sprockets can be replaced individually when worn.

(2) I've purchased a dyno hub to power the cell phone that I use as a navigation device. I use the most excellent Forumslader usb charger (by far the most efficient on the market). In has a convenient in-steerer option.

(3) I was lucky enough to get my hands on a used Stages power meter. This is extreme overkill for touring and I don't see how one could possibly justify paying full retail, but I must say that the feedback it provides is illuminating. New this season, I've seen how my power increases over time as I am getting fitter. I was also surprised to realize how much weaker I was after a bag indigestion (power cut by a third during 4 days). And will probably learn how to manage power over longer distances during this summer trip (a quick calculation suggests that a 50% power increase translates in less than 10% faster time. I am curious about learning how to pace myself over the course of a day, and over the course of a tour).

(4) Most recently, Shimano Saint platform pedals. I started with Shimano's trekking (SPD on one side and flat on the other). Was glad I've used SPD last year, but have now ditched touring shoes for Teva sandals. The Saint platform has pins that hold sandals firmly in place. Very pleased with them.

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Several other minor decisions (Thomson seatpost such that adjusting the saddle tilt is no longer an impossible chore); locking spacer such that the fork stays in place when removing the handlebars in transit; etc., etc., etc.

Still searching for the best way to mount my smartphone (quadlock is OK but there is room for improvement); Not 100% certain about the wheels/tires. Currently 2" Schwalbe Supreme on Mavic/DT Swiss/XT. 2" makes it challenging to put/remove the wheels (I have v-brakes). Might go for narrower tires. Then again, 2" is useful on gravel.

fietsbob

My JRA around town bike just has front panniers , now.

OK its got 20" wheels.. low trail .

mattbur

That's a nice set-up. And everything does appear to be right where you need it...at your finger tips. No reaching or leaning over.