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Mirrors ???

Old 07-25-16, 10:54 AM
  #76  
JoeyBike
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
I am interested in further details of how this works, thanks.
Shoot...I'll chime in. I do this virtually every day.

Keeping an eye in my helmet mounted mirror every 15 seconds or so for just a glance. See a truck coming a block or two back. Start assessing the situation up ahead. Where am I going to be when that truck gets behind me? I am thinking about this long in advance. Am I going to:

1. Speed up and take the lane for a bit?

2. Will I duck into an empty parking spot or a cross street opening and let the truck go past?

3. Is there a stretch of road ahead that will allow me to keep cycling but move farther right?

4. If I speed up is there a red light I can run to add cars and distance between myself and the truck?

Now take another peek in the mirror and DECIDE!

All of this^^ thinking, and more, takes place in a space of about 3-5 seconds. No problem because I have no issues with thinking about more than one thing at a time. Basically "What am i doing RIGHT NOW?" and "what are my options going to be a few seconds from now?". The decision making process is nearly automatic and I don't obsess about #1 - 4 at all. The first safe option I see is the one I choose. Often I choose just getting off the road and letting the truck pass as this seems to be the safest choice much of the time. I do not mind stopping to save my life.

Easy! (With a mirror of course)

Last edited by JoeyBike; 07-25-16 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 07-25-16, 11:09 AM
  #77  
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I use a mirror..... because I am old and have trouble (sometimes) turning my head back far enough or fast enough... to get a glance behind me. I attach a mirror to my cycling glasses.

I rarely use a blinky as I think most of that stuff is ineffective.
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Old 07-25-16, 01:33 PM
  #78  
Jim from Boston
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
...Keeping an eye in my helmet mounted mirror every 15 seconds or so for just a glance. See a truck coming a block or two back. Start assessing the situation up ahead. Where am I going to be when that truck gets behind me? I am thinking about this longin advance. Am I going to:

1. Speed up and take the lane for a bit?

2. Will I duck into an empty parking spot or a cross street opening and let thetruck go past?

3. Is there a stretch of road ahead that will allow me to keep cycling but movefarther right?

4. If I speed up is there a red light I can run to add cars and distancebetween myself and the truck?

Now take another peek in the mirror and DECIDE!

All of this^^ thinking, and more, takes place in a space of about 3-5 seconds.No problem because I have no issues with thinking about more than one thing ata time. Basically "What am i doing RIGHT NOW?" and "what are my options going to be a few seconds from now?". The decision making processis nearly automatic and I don't obsess about #1 - 4 at all. The first safe option I see is the one I choose. Often I choose just getting off the road and letting the truck pass as this seems to be the safest choice much of the time.I do not mind stopping to save my life.

Easy! (With a mirror of course)
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
…After numerous posts to these mirror popcorn threads, I decided “No mas.”…
Well put. Though I promised not to post, you nicely represented IMO, the main function of a mirror…not to avoid an imminent collision, but to anticipate and avoid in advance.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
…I was hit from behind in 2012 with six weeks in the hospital, three months off work, and five months off the bike…

The route was so calm that I was not closely monitoring my rearward view. In fact, though perhaps I could have ditched the bike, I’m glad I didn’t see it coming if I was going to get hit anyways.

I once read a comment that one should practice doing "bunny hops" so at least you could jump a curb if present on your right.

Obviously that’s the ultimate use of a mirror, and now I monitor rearwards more frequently. So hopefully being aware of the situation behind, even when not in immediate danger, allows the rider to avoid a dangerous situation, even by pulling off the road. And other than my accident, I’ve never had the need to bail out.

IMO, besides routine monitoring rearwards with the mirror, a most important use is to make quick decisions when encountering an obstacle in front of you, such as a car door, pothole, car entering your path, etc. Can you immediately veer left?...

Personally, I use an eyeglass mounted Take-a-Look mirror that allows me to maintain a forward-looking head position with just a sideward glance to see the rear. I really don’t want to turn my head for an over shoulder glance away from the line of travel when speeding downhill on a pothole-strewn road with heavy traffic to my left and parked cars to my right. Furthermore, wind noise can sometimes obscure the sound of a passing car.

I find mirrors so easy to use, and so helpful that I wear both right and left.
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Old 07-25-16, 02:16 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by work4bike
Yes, mirrors can be a distraction, so it's up to the user to learn to use them in a way so they are not a distraction,
You mean just like every driver ed class teaches even its dumbest students to do with three mirrors while driving 70+mph?
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Old 07-25-16, 02:57 PM
  #80  
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I think I've read enough. Seriously. I am physically ill from reading all the superstition, fear, and just outright ignorance. More than usual. TRUCKS! What about them? Trucks are a feature of traffic. What the hell. If you are afraid of trucks take the bus. Seriously. It is by far the better way, than to have all that stress. Stress kills. Much more likely that someone here will succumb to some stress related disorder than that they will be crushed by a speeding truck. My mirror is NOT to locate trucks so I can take evasive action to avoid them. My ears alert me to the presence of trucks and then I treat them like I treat anything else that moves upon America's roadways under power. The speed of a truck is irrelevant. Even if a truck is NOT speeding it will kill you if it collides with you. Why do you care if it may be speeding? Trucks can often be sloppy with respect to lane placement. I get a lot of that. I am not worried. As long as I am on the proper side of the bike lane if he comes over the line to get me that's the end of his CDL. Truckers have their issues but career suicide is not usually one of them. Has worked for me so far. Much better than stress about every single truck that shows up in a rear scan.

A mirror has one purpose and one purpose only: to allow a cyclist to perform a rear quarter scan easier than it might otherwise be performed. That is all. There is nothing with respect to riding safely that you couldn't do without your mirrors. The same is true for cars! If the cops catch you driving without a drivers side mirror you will be cited. What if they don't catch you? What if your rear-view mirror comes loose from its mount? What if you have a cap on your pick-up bed and can't see through your rearview mirror? What? The world ends? You die? Of course not. Lane changes become somewhat more interesting, but they are indeed still possible. Mirrors are not an essential equipment for any roadgoing vehcicle. They are very useful equipment. Useful, not essential. An important distinction.

One of those little 2 door SmartCars will kill you as easily as a Droop Snout Kenilworth if it nails you. Do not allow yourself to be hit by either. Fear all road traffic or fear none of it, but to isolate trucks as a particularly scary nemesis and ignore the lethality of passenger cars might explain some of the poor cyclist/motor vehicle collision statistics. Use a mirror or don't, the difference isn't what determines your long term viability. How predictably you behave has a lot more bearing. That and a measure of luck. I was driving down a 45mph two lane coast road last summer. I lost count of all the cars and trucks that I was meeting at a closing speed of 100 mph. Thousands. Thousands upon thousands. Any one of which could have crossed the centerline because the driver: sneezed, fell asleep, bent down to pick something up, achieved orgasm, or suffered a fatal heart attack or aneurysm. If you stopped to think about it you wouldn't even get in the car. Driving any meaningful distance requires putting your survival in the hands of THOUSANDS of total strangers that you have no choice but to hope care about their survival as much as you care about yours. Mostly the arrangement works. When it doesn't... "Breaking News..." Cyclists for some reason think they should be exempt from the rules of random fate and attempt to control the uncontrollable. Can't be done. You ride and you do your level best to be predictable and compliant with DMV statutes and that is all that you can do. Cheer up. It could be worse. You could have a terminal illness and KNOW that you are going to die in the next 6 months. As I understand it less than 10% (<10%) of Americans die suddenly. Suddenly is defined as in 3 days or less. The rest of us know with some certainty exactly how and when we are going to die. FWIW.
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Old 07-25-16, 03:15 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
I think I've read enough. Seriously. I am physically ill from reading all the superstition, fear, and just outright ignorance. More than usual. TRUCKS! What about them? Trucks are a feature of traffic. What the hell. If you are afraid of trucks take the bus. Seriously. It is by far the better way, than to have all that stress. Stress kills. Much more likely that someone here will succumb to some stress related disorder than that they will be crushed by a speeding truck. My mirror is NOT to locate trucks so I can take evasive action to avoid them. My ears alert me to the presence of trucks and then I treat them like I treat anything else that moves upon America's roadways under power. The speed of a truck is irrelevant. Even if a truck is NOT speeding it will kill you if it collides with you. Why do you care if it may be speeding? Trucks can often be sloppy with respect to lane placement. I get a lot of that. I am not worried. As long as I am on the proper side of the bike lane if he comes over the line to get me that's the end of his CDL. Truckers have their issues but career suicide is not usually one of them. Has worked for me so far. Much better than stress about every single truck that shows up in a rear scan.

A mirror has one purpose and one purpose only: to allow a cyclist to perform a rear quarter scan easier than it might otherwise be performed. That is all. There is nothing with respect to riding safely that you couldn't do without your mirrors. The same is true for cars! If the cops catch you driving without a drivers side mirror you will be cited. What if they don't catch you? What if your rear-view mirror comes loose from its mount? What if you have a cap on your pick-up bed and can't see through your rearview mirror? What? The world ends? You die? Of course not. Lane changes become somewhat more interesting, but they are indeed still possible. Mirrors are not an essential equipment for any roadgoing vehcicle. They are very useful equipment. Useful, not essential. An important distinction.

One of those little 2 door SmartCars will kill you as easily as a Droop Snout Kenilworth if it nails you. Do not allow yourself to be hit by either. Fear all road traffic or fear none of it, but to isolate trucks as a particularly scary nemesis and ignore the lethality of passenger cars might explain some of the poor cyclist/motor vehicle collision statistics. Use a mirror or don't, the difference isn't what determines your long term viability. How predictably you behave has a lot more bearing. That and a measure of luck. I was driving down a 45mph two lane coast road last summer. I lost count of all the cars and trucks that I was meeting at a closing speed of 100 mph. Thousands. Thousands upon thousands. Any one of which could have crossed the centerline because the driver: sneezed, fell asleep, bent down to pick something up, achieved orgasm, or suffered a fatal heart attack or aneurysm. If you stopped to think about it you wouldn't even get in the car. Driving any meaningful distance requires putting your survival in the hands of THOUSANDS of total strangers that you have no choice but to hope care about their survival as much as you care about yours. Mostly the arrangement works. When it doesn't... "Breaking News..." Cyclists for some reason think they should be exempt from the rules of random fate and attempt to control the uncontrollable. Can't be done. You ride and you do your level best to be predictable and compliant with DMV statutes and that is all that you can do. Cheer up. It could be worse. You could have a terminal illness and KNOW that you are going to die in the next 6 months. As I understand it less than 10% (<10%) of Americans die suddenly. Suddenly is defined as in 3 days or less. The rest of us know with some certainty exactly how and when we are going to die. FWIW.
Now, get off my lawn!
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Old 07-25-16, 04:07 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
I think I've read enough. Seriously. I am physically ill from reading all the superstition, fear, and just outright ignorance.
Holy cow. I innocently took your question as a sincere one and put down what I was doing to reply to you. If you've read enough and are physically ill from reading why did you ask for it? I wouldn't have spent the time to post the reply. I had better things to do than making you and myself ill.

P.S. I have deleted my reply that you had asked for. Thank you for wasting my time. I couldn't care less if others use mirrors or not. My reply was totally and stupidly out of kindness.

Last edited by vol; 07-25-16 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 07-26-16, 09:42 PM
  #83  
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I am not a mirror advocate, but seldom ride without my sun glasses and the mirror attached to them. When in town on errands I put my glasses on top of my head while off the bike. Its a tourist town with people from all over, and I get approached pretty often by people who say that they ride, have never seen mirror on glasses or a helmet, and are curious about them. I usually tell them I like them and why, and that they can check them out on amazon. So for a non advocate I have possibly turned several people onto them.

Mine are modified take a look mirrors. Elongated the shaft for better field of view without them right in my eyes, and soldered two mirror mounts together so that I see while in both the drops and on the hoods. Both mirrors are slightly bent for a wider field of view.

They have only helped me out once where I might have been really hurt. A house was being moved, and I saw it in the mirror a distance back. No shoulder and a drop off, so I got off the road and down the slope in a hurry, and watched the bottom of a whole house going over me. The driver never slowed or honked...

Mostly I use it to simply know whats behind me, and judge cars passing coinciding with oncoming cars to give me more info on what I need to be doing when that happens on narrow shoulder-less roads. I have never had a problem with processing the information about whats out in front, whats under my front wheels at the moment, and what is in the mirror, or side roads. I might miss something, but I'm not confused by what I have not missed.
Mirrors are just sources of information and I like having it. Number of vehicles stacking up behind the wuss who wont pass even though its clear, the number of bikes in the group of motorcycles coming up, and how many of them are going to go for a "lets screw with this guy cause Ive had a few beers at the last stop" close pass, the Dually pickup truck with the horse trailer with an unlatched rear door swinging out, motor homes driven by amateurs, and more.
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Old 07-26-16, 09:50 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm

A mirror has one purpose and one purpose only: to allow a cyclist to perform a rear quarter scan easier than it might otherwise be performed. That is all. There is nothing with respect to riding safely that you couldn't do without your mirrors. The same is true for cars! If the cops catch you driving without a drivers side mirror you will be cited. What if they don't catch you? What if your rear-view mirror comes loose from its mount? What if you have a cap on your pick-up bed and can't see through your rearview mirror? What? The world ends? You die? Of course not. Lane changes become somewhat more interesting, but they are indeed still possible. Mirrors are not an essential equipment for any roadgoing vehcicle. They are very useful equipment. Useful, not essential. An important distinction.

.
Next time I am out in my full sized van on the interstate or just in town I will remember that my mirrors are just a convenience. Hell, I use the passenger side mirror to watch for idiot cyclists who get up on my side ignoring the turn signals! So my non essential van mirrors have possibly saved at least a couple cyclists and me a lot of grief.
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Old 07-27-16, 11:19 AM
  #85  
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Wow, I guess I really got something started. I can't believe some of the negative responses. Everybody has a reason for using and not using a mirror. The arguments against them are ridiculous. With a mirror I don't have to turn my head to see behind me and I can see in front of myself at the same time, can't do that without a mirror. So I guess when you are looking behind you and not in front of you, the car pulling out of the driveway in front of you will kill you but you showed us. Use a mirror or not but I choose to be as safe as I can be. I also have a blown disk in my neck so turning my head does not work to good.
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Old 07-27-16, 11:39 AM
  #86  
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[edit] double post, sorry
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Old 07-27-16, 11:41 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by cncwhiz
Wow, I guess I really got something started. I can't believe some of the negative responses. Everybody has a reason for using and not using a mirror. The arguments against them are ridiculous. ....
Yea, just as I said earlier - the pro-mirror crowd simply can't understand why some of us choose to not use mirrors, and can still ride safely. The fact that some of us find them not worth using or even distracting is ridiculous.
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Old 07-27-16, 11:59 AM
  #88  
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The quality of engineering in the bicycling industry is poor. The financial incentive vs. say, writing a popular app, or even just working a 9 to 5 as a nurse are miniscule.

As a result, the industry attracts diehard bicycle lovers who enjoy tinkering but charge a mint for any product that's even moderately worthwhile, or large scale manufacturers who try to meet a price point with shoddy gear that's 99-100% plastic and maybe offers the functionality of a cheap toy from a box of craker (non racial epithet?) jacks (cat eye products come to find frequently).

Second, it seems that all useful accessories for bicycles seem like esthetic after thoughts, and look and feel like clunky, out of place after thoughts. This includes lights, reflectors, mirrors and bags.

Accessories designers and manufacturers just can't seem to "get it right." It's really kind of sad. The accessories just seems to be composed of designs from middle school kids in shop class.
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Old 07-27-16, 12:20 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Camilo
...the pro-mirror crowd simply can't understand why some of us choose to not use mirrors, and can still ride safely...
We understand. We just don't believe it is just as safe ignoring what is roaring up behind you, or turning your head around every 15 seconds, as it is to use a mirror. We don't buy that your ears are a great substitute for your eyes under all circumstances.

You don't like mirrors, don't use one. Just spare us the nonsense that it is just as safe cycling in traffic without one. Just come clean. You don't like mirrors. They make you look (more) dorky, or you just can't figure out how to use one. You are not fooling one single person who bikes with a mirror on the safety issue.
.
.
.
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Old 07-27-16, 12:46 PM
  #90  
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I don't use a mirror to avoid incidents. I use it to be courteous to the cars around me.

The road I ride frequently on is a 55 mph state road. It has a huge shoulder. Traffic comes in waves of 5-7 cars at a time. I pay attention to anything coming up behind me and move over onto the shoulder as they approach. When the group of cars pass by, I have a stretch of time before I'll see another car and I jump back to the smoother roadway. There's no reason for me to tie up 60 mph traffic to 15 mph when there's a 5 foot shoulder for me to move over to for 10 seconds or so.

It's easier to keep tabs behind me with a slight eye movement up to my helmet mounted mirror than to keep turning my head and looking behind me taking 100% of the attention away from what's in front. I wear contacts, so when I glance behind with a head turn, it is a very big head turn because a head turn along with eye movement to the corners of the eye moves the contact slightly restricting vision. Therefore it's more than a glance with a head movement, it's an entire body twist with head movement to access what is behind me.

I don't think I'm safer. If someone wanted to barrel 60 mph into the back of me, a mirror isn't going to help me. I use it to be courteous to the drivers out there.
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Old 07-27-16, 12:50 PM
  #91  
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I find a good mirror very useful in heavy traffic where it's hard to tell by sound if a vehicle is behind you, beside you or in front of you.

Like many things to do with bicycling, those who like mirrors will use them and those who don't like mirrors won't use them. i still find it somewhat amusing that a bicycle is t he only vehicle that does not have to have a rear-view mirror whilst being allowed on the roads.
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Old 07-27-16, 04:27 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Camilo
Yea, just as I said earlier - the pro-mirror crowd simply can't understand why some of us choose to not use mirrors, and can still ride safely. The fact that some of us find them not worth using or even distracting is ridiculous.
Like I said, use a mirror or not your excuses are still lame. To each their own. What I really don't understand is for most people that use the roads, you will use mirrors on your car for obvious reasons but almost the same environment you don't believe mirrors will help you on a bicycle????
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Old 07-27-16, 04:49 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
We understand. We just don't believe it is just as safe ignoring what is roaring up behind you, or turning your head around every 15 seconds, as it is to use a mirror. We don't buy that your ears are a great substitute for your eyes under all circumstances.

You don't like mirrors, don't use one. Just spare us the nonsense that it is just as safe cycling in traffic without one. Just come clean. You don't like mirrors. They make you look (more)dorky, or you just can't figure out how to use one. You are not fooling one single person who bikes with a mirror on the safety issue....
You believe.... I believe.... We both have beliefs I guess. I don't know if I've ever thought that the beliefs of those who find value in using a mirror are ridiculous, lame, dorky, ignorant, or somehow invalid. I haven't seen a lot of comments on my side of the discussion insulting and using disparaging remarks about you-all. Maybe some, but not relentlessly like you guys.

But to the latest point you make: Neither of the reasons you state (for me not using a mirror) are accurate and do nothing but show your bias and inability to accept that your opinions on safety and utility of mirrors aren't the only ones and a "belief" is not a fact. Again proving an earlier point I made that the pro-mirror crowd can't seem to understand why some of us choose to not use mirrors, and can still ride safely. I appreciate your support!

Originally Posted by cncwhiz
Like I said, use a mirror or not your excuses are still lame. ...
And what excuses were those? Oh, that I don't happen to think they help me ride safer. Yea, I wouldn't know about that, but you would because you've ridden with me so many times and know exactly what sort of circumnstances I ride in.

Thanks to both of you for helping to make my point again and again.

Last edited by Camilo; 07-27-16 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 07-27-16, 05:29 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by American Euchre
The quality of engineering in the bicycling industry is poor. The financial incentive vs. say, writing a popular app, or even just working a 9 to 5 as a nurse are miniscule.

As a result, the industry attracts diehard bicycle lovers who enjoy tinkering but charge a mint for any product that's even moderately worthwhile, or large scale manufacturers who try to meet a price point with shoddy gear that's 99-100% plastic and maybe offers the functionality of a cheap toy from a box of craker (non racial epithet?) jacks (cat eye products come to find frequently).

Second, it seems that all useful accessories for bicycles seem like esthetic after thoughts, and look and feel like clunky, out of place after thoughts. This includes lights, reflectors, mirrors and bags.

Accessories designers and manufacturers just can't seem to "get it right." It's really kind of sad. The accessories just seems to be composed of designs from middle school kids in shop class.
Sooo well said--my thoughts all along as well. You buy a $40 tailight and there is no good way to mount it; a rear rack bracket is sold separately for $10. A handlebar extention $15, panniers (aka bags with velcro) $70. How much does it really cost to make them? But there are always what you call diehard bike lovers who are willing to pay for them, esp. the safety related accessories (reasoning: "This bright light is $250, but it can save your life.").

(Btw I once suggested here that bikes should be built with integrated lights since they are required by law, annoyed many here )
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Old 07-27-16, 08:45 PM
  #95  
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Camilo,

You and I as well as simple physics know a mirror is safer than none at all. There is no way to reason with some of these guys, so I am done with them. My safety is more important than what I look like so I will ride my restored old bikes with my lights, 7 dollar mirror and my primal wear and be a happy rider.
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Old 07-28-16, 01:17 AM
  #96  
The Chemist
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I have a mirror mounted into the end of the bullhorn bar I have on my bike. I find it's very useful to keep track of what's coming up behind me, be it a car that might want to blindly turn right across the bike lane (a common problem in Shanghai) or, as the bike lanes in Shanghai are shared by bikes, electric bikes, and gas scooters, or it might be a fast moving scooter that I need to move over for. Given how chaotic the streets in Shanghai can be, the extra situational awareness that a mirror adds for me cannot be overstated.
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Old 07-28-16, 01:54 AM
  #97  
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Also very useful at night. The cars' headlights are very visible even when they are far away. On bike paths, I can know from the mirror if other cyclists are going to pass me if they use front or helmet lights.

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Old 07-28-16, 05:22 AM
  #98  
Jim from Boston
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Originally Posted by vol
[Mirrors] also very useful at night. The cars' headlights are very visible even when they are far away. On bike paths, I can know from the mirror if other cyclists are going to pass me if they use front or helmet lights.
One of my Riding Safety Aphorisms that I l keep in mind to stay safe is “When riding at night, look for cars, not just headlights.” More likely if a cager is driving without headlights, he/she is distracted.

[To illustrate my concept of Safety Aphorisms, I posted these recently that always come to mind in these particular situations:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
…surely a car door is one of the most frequent and dangerous obstacles. I have an aphorism, Like a weapon, always assume a stopped car is loaded, with an occupant ready to exit, from either side.”
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
A valuable tip I learned from Bike Forums courtesy of local Metro Bostonian, @buzzman , is to watch the front tires of a car rather than the body or the hood. The car will go where the front tires point.

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Old 07-28-16, 06:40 AM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by American Euchre
The quality of engineering in the bicycling industry is poor.The financial incentive vs. say, writing a popular app, or even just working a 9 to 5 as a nurse are miniscule....

Second, it seems that all useful accessories for bicycles seem like esthetic after thoughts, and look and feel like clunky, out of place after thoughts.This includes lights, reflectors, mirrors and bags.

Accessories designers and manufacturers just can't seem to "get it right." It's really kind of sad. The accessories just seems to be composed of designs from middle school kids in shop class.
Originally Posted by vol
Sooo well said--my thoughts all along as well....But there are always what you call diehard bike lovers who are willing to pay for them, esp. the safety related accessories (reasoning: "This bright light is $250, but it can saveyour life.").

(Btw I once suggested here that bikes should be built with integrated lights since they are required by law, annoyed many here )
OTOH,as a diehard bike lover, including self-supported touring, road cycling and year-round cycle commuting for decades, I am in general well-satisfied with my accessories, and the prices, that are important, even vital to my cycling lifestyle, for example my eyeglass-mounted Take-a-Look mirrors. I do agree with you though that some cyclists go overboard with lights, for example blinding headlights on illuminated urban bikepaths, as if the cone of light is a force-field to shield them from harm…the stronger the better.


I mainly reply because FYA, the bikes ofthe Hubway Bike Sharing Program here in Boston do have built-in small flashing white front and red rear lights activated by the bikes forward motion.
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Old 07-28-16, 08:17 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
I do agree with you though that some cyclists go overboard with lights, for example blinding headlights on illuminated urban bikepaths, as if the cone of light is a force-field to shield them from harm…the stronger the better.
Well, a couple of megawatts might actually have that effect.

But mostly worth it just to watch the annoying rat dogs burst into flames.
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