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Bicycle Blue Book.

Old 01-12-18, 12:26 AM
  #51  
Tape2012
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
I would actually laugh if my insurance tried to use bbb. That site isnt some insurance database.
Its no different than if i were to log onto ebay and find the 5 most expensive bikes that are vaguely similar to the one im claiming.

Both have no reason to be in an insurance claim.
Your not listening. I'm not arguing with anybody about this or the value of BBB. I'm just relating personal experience and what insurance companies do. I can however tell you how far laughing will get you.

The key here (for insurance) is to discuss it with your agent BEFORE anything happens. There are a lot of options, such as in my case where I purchased replacement cost coverage. In your case with custom bikes you will want to establish value up front and pay the premium for a rider. That way there is no question what the payout will be in the event of a loss.
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Old 01-12-18, 07:36 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Tape2012
My understanding is that BBB has relationships with bike shops/stores who report their sales data. Do you have any evidence for your claims?

Also, the auto market is much larger, more fluid and easier to track so you would expect their data to be more accurate.

All I can tell you is that, in my experience, insurance companies use BBB data in making decisions on bike values. You might not agree, but they do.
A car owner is required by law to carry insurance , the value you carry MUST cover the replacement cost of other drivers vehicle. If they have a loan on their car, the bank requires they carry insurance to cover the replacement of cost of their own vehicle. Lets be honest, no one does this for used bicycles. When I was hit by a car a couple of years ago while on my bicycle, MY AUTO INSURANCE PAID MY $20,000 EMERGENCY ROOM BILL, BUT GAVE ME NOTHING (ZERO) FOR MY DESTROYED BIKE. (BTW, I was not hurt)

I believe you, that an insurance adjuster used the bicycle blue book to set the amount of how much they are willing to pay, they win, because the values are low and they have no other resource for such small incidental items in the big scheme of things.

never the less:

-the values of automobile replacement cost are derived from market place data.

-no such data exists for used bicycles because people don't take out loans and insure their bikes.

-bicycle blue makes up the numbers in the absence of market place data.

-bicycle blue book is in the business of buying and selling used bikes.

-They sell bikes for more than they pay or list in their book.

-their faux resources does two things for them 1) drives innocent internet traffic to their web site which increases their sells. 2)sets artificial low prices for them to buy.

So the next time an insurance company tries to use them as a resource, you can refuse because Bicycle Blue book OBVIOUSLY has a conflict of interest that would not be allowed to exist in any legitimate market. I highly doubt any legitimate business would want to share data with such an obvious SCAM.

On another thread it was pointed out that they also operate an Ebay store for sells.

They are not an independent resource.
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Old 01-12-18, 11:55 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by zebede
A car owner is required by law to carry insurance , the value you carry MUST cover the replacement cost of other drivers vehicle. If they have a loan on their car, the bank requires they carry insurance to cover the replacement of cost of their own vehicle. Lets be honest, no one does this for used bicycles. When I was hit by a car a couple of years ago while on my bicycle, MY AUTO INSURANCE PAID MY $20,000 EMERGENCY ROOM BILL, BUT GAVE ME NOTHING (ZERO) FOR MY DESTROYED BIKE. (BTW, I was not hurt)

I believe you, that an insurance adjuster used the bicycle blue book to set the amount of how much they are willing to pay, they win, because the values are low and they have no other resource for such small incidental items in the big scheme of things.

never the less:

-the values of automobile replacement cost are derived from market place data.

-no such data exists for used bicycles because people don't take out loans and insure their bikes.

-bicycle blue makes up the numbers in the absence of market place data.

-bicycle blue book is in the business of buying and selling used bikes.

-They sell bikes for more than they pay or list in their book.

-their faux resources does two things for them 1) drives innocent internet traffic to their web site which increases their sells. 2)sets artificial low prices for them to buy.

So the next time an insurance company tries to use them as a resource, you can refuse because Bicycle Blue book OBVIOUSLY has a conflict of interest that would not be allowed to exist in any legitimate market. I highly doubt any legitimate business would want to share data with such an obvious SCAM.

On another thread it was pointed out that they also operate an Ebay store for sells.

They are not an independent resource.
Glad you were not hurt. Like I said before many times if you feel this way, it is a discussion to have with your insurance agent BEFORE any loss. Once a loss occurs, your options for negotiating are much more limited.
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Old 01-12-18, 12:40 PM
  #54  
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didn't read responses but blue book is not accurate in my opinion. Often times it gives the value as way too low in my eyes

if you are happy with the bike and what you paid, it's a good deal
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Old 01-12-18, 03:23 PM
  #55  
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If I were looking at a used bike, I'd first find out what a comparable model is going for brand new and judge whether the used bike price is a good deal or not from that.

I've perused BBB and it's interesting, but I don't know how useful it is in the real world. In order for something like that to work, it would have to have some logical, repeatable methodology of how they come up with the prices. And then it has to be credible, something that can be generally agreed upon by people in the industry as a reasonable estimate of pricing. I don't think it's there yet.
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Old 11-15-18, 05:57 PM
  #56  
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Bcycle Bluebook fees?

A LBS is tacking on a $150 handling/shipping fee for Bicycle Bluebook trade ins. They say it covers packing the bike and shipping it to Bike Bluebook. Does anyone know if this is valid or not? I did some searching and found some talk about the BlueBook trade in price covering the shipping and handling by the LBS.
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Old 11-15-18, 07:19 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by jmess
A LBS is tacking on a $150 handling/shipping fee for Bicycle Bluebook trade ins. They say it covers packing the bike and shipping it to Bike Bluebook. Does anyone know if this is valid or not? I did some searching and found some talk about the BlueBook trade in price covering the shipping and handling by the LBS.
Don't trade it in. Ignoring the fact that Bicycle Blue Book is not a real guideline for used bike values, I've seen LBS's with signs in front that are willing to pay $50 over the Bicycle Blue Book price.

Sell the bike used for what you determine is an appropriate price.
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Old 11-15-18, 10:04 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun
The difference to cars is that the LBS only sell a small fraction of the market and have no motivation to report all transactions, or be accurate about those. Just look at this forum how many people report about purchases or sales on CL/ebay or ask advice about CL for sales. I can't recall a single thread about someone asking about an LBS used bike sale.

For cars the government has 100% of the sales recorded (due to titles) and in states with sales tax there also is a huge motivation to enforce honest transaction prices.

Bicycles also have no odometer, while mileage on cars is an important part of the price.

I think the only thing in common between KBB and BBB is that two words match.
Another difference is that cars are usually pretty standardized on the secondary market. Different trims, sure but rarely that different.

Bikes, especially mid and high level ones are often customized and upgraded - different wheekset, crankset, shock upgrades, brake upgrades etc.

This means the value of bike can be vastly different than what BBB states.
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Old 09-17-19, 01:55 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by gilpi
Prices on some of the bikes listed don't even cover the actual total price of the components alone!
or the recent tune up, I hate BBB...especially when trying to sell a bike and some one says "Well Bicycle Blue Book says its only worth 80.00" lady....I dont give a rats ass WHAT BBB says, the tires alone cost that much......so now I list right in my ads that they (BBB) are full of it and dont try to buy my bike with a print out from bicycle blue book, you will be wasting your gas !
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Old 09-19-19, 11:00 AM
  #60  
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Bicycle Blue Book is a SCAM

Originally Posted by combover
or the recent tune up, I hate BBB...especially when trying to sell a bike and some one says "Well Bicycle Blue Book says its only worth 80.00" lady....I dont give a rats ass WHAT BBB says, the tires alone cost that much......so now I list right in my ads that they (BBB) are full of it and dont try to buy my bike with a print out from bicycle blue book, you will be wasting your gas !
BRAVO !

I repeat below for the benefit of others who may encounter this thread.

Bicycle Blue Book is a SCAM.

They BUY bikes at low prices (there low book prices are highly dubious).
They SELL bikes on ebay at higher prices than are on there "book"!

This tells you that you should NOT trust them for pricing information because THEY HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

They have no real data source like Kelly Blue Book for cars (which has 100s of millions of data points which banks and insurance companies rely on)
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Old 09-19-19, 12:19 PM
  #61  
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@Tape2012, you may be able to save some money in premium by going with an inland marine policy. Ask your agent for a quote to compare and contrast.
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Old 09-19-19, 12:25 PM
  #62  
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I'm pretty sure that bicycle blue book is the trade-in value only at LBS's
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Old 09-19-19, 08:07 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by zebede
BRAVO !

I repeat below for the benefit of others who may encounter this thread.

Bicycle Blue Book is a SCAM.

They BUY bikes at low prices (there low book prices are highly dubious).
They SELL bikes on ebay at higher prices than are on there "book"!

This tells you that you should NOT trust them for pricing information because THEY HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

They have no real data source like Kelly Blue Book for cars (which has 100s of millions of data points which banks and insurance companies rely on)
I didnt even know they buy bikes ! Thats why the values they list are so low ?
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Old 09-19-19, 08:28 PM
  #64  
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I just used BB to cash in a Felt Z4 and get a Felt Breed from my LBS.

I got fair price...maybe they graded my condition a hair low...transaction was quick and clean. Shop shipped it to BB for me and applied credit to my purchase.

Happy customer here.
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Old 09-22-19, 05:44 AM
  #65  
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Bicycle Blue Book has a conflict in interest

Originally Posted by MaxKatt
I just used BB to cash in a Felt Z4 and get a Felt Breed from my LBS.

I got fair price...maybe they graded my condition a hair low...transaction was quick and clean. Shop shipped it to BB for me and applied credit to my purchase.

Happy customer here.
Thank you for sharing and glad you had a happy outcome.

This transaction illustrates the conflict of interest that Bicycle BB has. On one hand they publish an on-line resource claiming to be independent and data driven and on the other hand they are buying and selling bikes .

What has irked many local retailers is when customers come in with these ridiculously low price quotes from the BBB that do not reflect the market value. We all know they do not have a source of data like Kelly BB.

Customers believe that BBB is like Kelly BB (data driven), Bicycle BB is greed driven, They are misleading/ deceiving the majority of people who visit there website into believing they are a authoritative source of data, they are setting low buy prices for themselves.
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Old 09-23-19, 10:48 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by zebede
Thank you for sharing and glad you had a happy outcome.

This transaction illustrates the conflict of interest that Bicycle BB has. On one hand they publish an on-line resource claiming to be independent and data driven and on the other hand they are buying and selling bikes .

What has irked many local retailers is when customers come in with these ridiculously low price quotes from the BBB that do not reflect the market value. We all know they do not have a source of data like Kelly BB.

Customers believe that BBB is like Kelly BB (data driven), Bicycle BB is greed driven, They are misleading/ deceiving the majority of people who visit there website into believing they are a authoritative source of data, they are setting low buy prices for themselves.


As mentioned, perhaps they graded me a little lower, but there's a trade off. Time. What's your time worth?

I don't need the hassles of posting on Craig's list, Ebay...then either shipping or having numerous strangers come over to "look at it"...test ride it...and pass...before maybe somebody buys it...for maybe a little more than BB.

If you want a fast, clean, no questions asked swap...a little less on the front end?...eh. Well worth it. On to the next bike!....
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Old 09-23-19, 11:22 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Respectfully yours, M State Glfr
I've been reading this as "Michigan State Girlfriend". But I know you are a man, so that's probably wrong.

Respectfully yours, Harbor Bike & Ski (defunct bike shop I worked at in the '90's).
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Old 09-23-19, 12:33 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by HarborBandS
I've been reading this as "Michigan State Girlfriend". But I know you are a man, so that's probably wrong.

Respectfully yours, Harbor Bike & Ski (defunct bike shop I worked at in the '90's).
Ha, I always read yours as Harbor Band S.

mstateglfr = mississippi state university golfer. The real MSU.
Its been my forum name since entering college 20 years ago. <--dang that is shocking to type!
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Old 09-23-19, 12:41 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Ha, I always read yours as Harbor Band S.

mstateglfr = mississippi state university golfer. The real MSU.
Its been my forum name since entering college 20 years ago. <--dang that is shocking to type!
25 for me. Ugh.
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Old 09-26-19, 10:06 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by gilpi
Prices on some of the bikes listed don't even cover the actual total price of the components alone!
That is sometimes the case even with new bikes. Also a common situation with a used car that parting it out will net more money than selling the entire vehicle. IOW, not surprising.
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Old 09-26-19, 12:32 PM
  #71  
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Look, I can't speak for BBB, but as someone in software development, it's not a big challenge to write software that will track every bike transaction on eBay. Why would you think BBB doesn't do that? Cross that with putting a 'bot on CL, check prices on used inventory posted on LBS sites... this ain't quantum computing. Harder questions are: does source make their pricing methodology transparent? If prices are questioned, can they be qualified and possibly updated? How often does a given model trade and price? Else, you're likely just using a standardized depreciation rate, and a seven-year-old anything is technically toast. Except a Babe Ruth baseball card, right?

I used to work with pricing in the bond market, same kind of question when you're looking at "over the counter" transactions. "My price is better, yours is wrong." Yeah, heard that a bazillion times. At the point of sale, it's two parties negotiating and we'll see who wants the transaction more...

But spare us the venom. That price is worth what you paid to get it. On the internet. yeah. But, gotta start somewhere...
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Old 09-27-19, 08:40 AM
  #72  
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Bicycle Blue Book is a SCAM

Originally Posted by blacknbluebikes
Look, I can't speak for BBB, but as someone in software development, it's not a big challenge to write software that will track every bike transaction on eBay. Why would you think BBB doesn't do that? Cross that with putting a 'bot on CL, check prices on used inventory posted on LBS sites... this ain't quantum computing. Harder questions are: does source make their pricing methodology transparent? If prices are questioned, can they be qualified and possibly updated? How often does a given model trade and price? Else, you're likely just using a standardized depreciation rate, and a seven-year-old anything is technically toast. Except a Babe Ruth baseball card, right?

I used to work with pricing in the bond market, same kind of question when you're looking at "over the counter" transactions. "My price is better, yours is wrong." Yeah, heard that a bazillion times. At the point of sale, it's two parties negotiating and we'll see who wants the transaction more...

But spare us the venom. That price is worth what you paid to get it. On the internet. yeah. But, gotta start somewhere...
Thank you, further discussion will help consumers find this page as a resource.
I am glad Bike Forums gives us a place to discuss such things for the public good.

Bicycle Blue Book has a conflict of interest.

It's quite obvious what they are doing and why.

1. Act like Kelly Blue Book
2. Set prices artificially low
3. Buy bikes at these low prices
4. Sell bikes at higher prices on ebay

-If this were automobiles we were discussing, no bank, insurance company or seller would use the data. Why ? Because they would be a fool to do so. ONLY buyers would use it to get bikes at low prices.

-Just because its out there on the internet does not mean you should use it, that was NOT a valid point.

-In regards to your conjecture defense of there data:
- First they have a conflict of interest which influences the data (thats a fact)
- There are more bicycles in the USA than automobiles, IMO MOST bicycle models pass DO NO pass thru ebay. For those that do, I question if statistically valid number are identified to set market pricing.

I am sure Bicycle Blue Book has some type of formula for pricing. I believe that is , skewed by there conflict of interest and based on none or extremely weak data.

Last edited by zebede; 09-27-19 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 09-27-19, 01:09 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by blacknbluebikes
Look, I can't speak for BBB, but as someone in software development, it's not a big challenge to write software that will track every bike transaction on eBay. Why would you think BBB doesn't do that? Cross that with putting a 'bot on CL, check prices on used inventory posted on LBS sites... this ain't quantum computing. Harder questions are: does source make their pricing methodology transparent? If prices are questioned, can they be qualified and possibly updated? How often does a given model trade and price? Else, you're likely just using a standardized depreciation rate, and a seven-year-old anything is technically toast. Except a Babe Ruth baseball card, right?

I used to work with pricing in the bond market, same kind of question when you're looking at "over the counter" transactions. "My price is better, yours is wrong." Yeah, heard that a bazillion times. At the point of sale, it's two parties negotiating and we'll see who wants the transaction more...

But spare us the venom. That price is worth what you paid to get it. On the internet. yeah. But, gotta start somewhere...
What good would a bot trolling CL do? That could collect asking prices, but doesnt show actual sale prices. It cant even show if bikes ever sell. Furthermore, it would collect a massive number of bikes priced well OVER anything people are willing to pay(its extensively documented here), so if the bot info were used, it would misrepresent pricing at a higher amount.

I understand there is tech for everything you mention, I simply dont see your scenario as a valid approach to used bike pricing.
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Old 09-27-19, 03:16 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
What good would a bot trolling CL do? That could collect asking prices, but doesnt show actual sale prices. It cant even show if bikes ever sell. Furthermore, it would collect a massive number of bikes priced well OVER anything people are willing to pay(its extensively documented here), so if the bot info were used, it would misrepresent pricing at a higher amount.

I understand there is tech for everything you mention, I simply dont see your scenario as a valid approach to used bike pricing.
Good point.

In addition the overwhelming vast majority of these listing do not list the correct model name, manufacturer or year. Difficult to build a real database from nothing.

BTW I like your Miyata Avatar, My daily commuter is a 1986 Miyata 610, not much is orginal these days but I like the frame.

Last edited by zebede; 09-27-19 at 03:22 PM. Reason: update
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Old 09-27-19, 03:54 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by gilpi
I recently purchased a bike for a hundred dollars over blue book pricing, didn't even check beforehand but at the end of it all I still feel I got a great deal since it is a perfect fit and overall a nice bike for my purposes.
How do you guys feel about the blue book pricing? Better for buyer or seller?
bicycle blue book is a joke .any bike over 4 years old is valued at pennies on the many dollars people spent....even if it had never been rode at all
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