Inertianinja

I have posted about this recently - I was trying to order a custom steel frame from a builder in italy (i'm in NY). I have never ordered a steel bike before, so I have a million questions about options (lugged, brazed, this type of dropout, that type of cable stop, etc). Unfortunately, I am only able to get an email back from them once every few days.

I'm starting to come to the conclusion that I should find a local builder who I can sit down with and really go through this stuff. It may not be my italian hand built dream... but it is becoming clear that if i am going to order something over email, I am going to need to know exactly what I want ahead of time.

Agree?

And, if so, how do you decide that a builder is good enough?

(btw, if anyone knows a good builder that is within driving distance from the New York metro area, please let me know)

vautrain

You've obviously never dealt with the Italian customs and postal systems. No way I would ever order anything directly from Italy, nor would I ever ship anything there (again). It's worse than the German postal system, which is plenty bad, believe it or not. Was there a language barrier issue with the Italian builder as well? I'd be worried they wouldn't be able to understand what I was after, just due to that.

I'd choose a Canadian or US builder I could actually talk to on the phone, as opposed to exclusively via email. There are a ton of excellent custom frame builders, but I've never gone that route, so I can't suggest one for you. I assume you've perused the Framebuilders forum?

fa63

It helps to know what you want if you are going custom with someone who is not within an easy reach. Both my custom orders from Tsunami have been flawless (I am in FL, he is in AZ), but I pretty much told him what I wanted and after that it was him building a bike to my specs (he would make suggestions if needed). It also helps that Joe (Tsunami owner) answers pretty much all emails within 24 hours, and he will go into detail explaining things if needed. I can also pick up the phone and call him if I needed to.

With that said, if you have a lot of questions and you are only getting an answer every couple days, I can see how this would make you nervous. As mentioned, I suggest looking for at least a US based builder, and someone who you can pick up the phone and talk to at the very least. There are lots of good ones out there. From my NAHBS experience, Dave Kirk came across as a straight-up good guy who also builds beautiful steel frames.

Good luck.

canam73

Agreed with fa63 that local is nice. You can usually meet some customers and hear their experiences and see the work first hand. And then actually meet the builder and see his shop. I live about an hour from the Waterford plant and while my fitting was at an lbs I had taken the tour and been to their shop rides.

pallen

Considering you are in NY, I would definitely go local. I would expect to find a lot of great builders where you are.

Inertianinja

it's not even that I'm nervous....there are plenty of positive reviews of this shop. it's that I can't get them to speak with me enough to place an order! but it's fine. maybe someday I'll travel to Italy and just visit a shop.

adriano 

i specced my frame from afar, but i was on https://sourceforge.net/projects/rattlecad/ for a while.

fa63

Then it is simple; go with someone who wants your business more. There are many great builders in the US who will do a better job communicating, and do as good (if not better) a job of building you the frame of your dreams.

Commodus

Unless I had a real strong opinion about things like construction method and geometry, I would just go see a local builder I trusted. I would just tell him what kind of riding I did, give him as much information as I could about me the personal prejudices I've picked up over the years. Have him measure me up and pay what he asks.

Inertianinja

by construction method, do you mean lugged/brazed/tigged or something else?

Commodus

Yea. I mean some people really love lugs, or the smoothed out look of a fillet braze.

I'm not really picky about this stuff myself, but I know some are.

Inertianinja

okay.
I have opinions about those in terms of aesthetics, but I'm sure there's more to it than that. Skill, weight, flexibility, durability, etc.
whether they're major differences or not, i'd be much more excited about the custom build if the builder could sit down and tell me about them. I'm kind of sick of just endlessly reading forum threads, you know?

So i started a thread over in framebuilders, we'll see what happens.

WhyFi

I've been snooping around for custom builders, too - this one isn't that far and get's plenty of positive attention - https://kbedfordcustoms.com/

StanSeven

I don't have a quick and easy answer for you. Most of the things you ask about is builders preferences. For example, many tubesets now don't require lugs but many builders prefer the aesthetics of lugs. While it's easy to say to talk with framebuilders, the smaller ones are more interetsed in earning an income building and selling frames and time they spend on the phone or email detracts from that. If you aren't in a rush, you can participate in framebuilders forum as well as people here (the C&V foum is another good source of info) as well as visit local shops. Then once you learn what you want, find a builder and just tell me what you need.

Another option is get a bike built from one of the larger companies - I ended up with a Waterford and a Seven (mine's a Ti but Seven also makes steel) and I did lots of talking and looking at bikes from their local dealers. They fitted me and showed me all the options avaialble.

One thing to keep in mind is a large part of what you end up with is the builders own perspective on bikes. For example, Seven feels riders need to be upright more than most other builders to be comfortable and comfort translates to improved performance. Others say the opposite - get the position that best for power and aero and learn to adjust.

Inertianinja

Sevens are nice, but again, i'm really hoping for the "sit down and chat about it" experience.
And i'm really glad you mentioned that about Seven's design philosophy. My coach has fit me for my bikes in a long and low position - it's how i like to be.




518 area code I'm in 212. Not a dealbraker necessarily.
I just started looking at www.horsecycles.com which is in brooklyn. If that worked out, i could ask about just hanging around the shop to watch the build process

cinemattic

i have a friend who has a horse track bike. it's one of the nicer track bikes i've seen, and is very quality steel. i haven't checked out any of their road frames, but the one that i've seen in person is elegant and very quality. definetly check him out

Bob Ross

Tom Kellogg/Spectrum Cycles, in eastern PA. /thread

mazdaspeed

Based on your frequent posts it sounds like you have no idea what you want. Imo you should just wait until you do. There are lots of relatively inexpensive non custom frames out there that will be more than adequate.

Inertianinja

are you suggesting that i'll just wake up one day and know what i want?

or maybe i should just do some research....maybe by asking people who might know more than i do...maybe on an internet forum about bicycles...

I have ridden plenty of bikes, and i actually have most of the decisions made. it is not that i have "no idea" - custom is an entirely different area. it would be extremely inefficient to just keep buying bikes to find out if i "like" lugs or fillet brazing or this tubing or that.

canam73

What makes them so much better/different from every other custom builder that it should end all discussion on the matter?

RJM

I don't know why someone from the states would need a frame made in Italy when there are so many great builders here. Unless of course you are just dying to have the "made in Italy" thing. I wouldn't buy from a shop who didn't have time to talk to me about the bike. No f'n way, not with a custom. You need communication to get a good custom bike and if there is a language barrier it will only make the conversation harder.

Start yourself a list of feature you know you want, plus the purpose of the bike. Is it going to be a race bike, touring bike, rando bike, something in between? That would be my starting point with picking a builder. I would choose a builder who kind of specializes in the kind of bike you want. Picking lugs vs welded vs fillet brazed is really about looks. What do you prefer?

Inertianinja

The italian thing was for a few reasons. One, it was the fact that Ciocc was still building bikes. Two, I'm italian and it would have just been a nice thing, the heritage and all that. Three, i didn't know how difficult it would be to get information out of them. I have learned my lesson.

So yes, i have a lot of stuff dialed in. Looking for relatively light, race-able, similar geo/reach/drop to my current bikes.
It's the other things that need some discussion - like exactly which tubing to choose (it's not like you can go to a LBS and say "i want to test ride one bike with Spirit and one bike with SL tubing."), and what other little options and details the particular builder can do. Internal brake cable routing, special paint, head tube cable stops, or stuff i don't even know about.

garciawork

Here is my experience: Called a local builder that my dad new in the 70's, made an appointment, got fitted on his custom fit bike, told him I wanted narrow tubes and a level top tube, told him what kind of riding I wanted, got the various braze ons figured out, and everything else was up to him and what he thought I would want/need. I have absolutely no clue what tubing my bike has. Its reasonably light for a steel frame/fork, and it rides better than I would have ever thought a bicycle could ride.

If you pick an experienced builder, its hard to go wrong. My 2 cents.

dalava

How did you deduce the Italians didn't want to communicate?

Inertianinja

nobody said that the italian builder didn't want to communicate.