sumbikerguy123

Greetings mates:

If you were in the market for a new bike and stood over the cross bar with both feet flat on the ground. And the crossbar was pushed up against your nads, would you feel okay with that or would you walk away and look for a smaller sized bike frame?

My train of thought is I just wouldn't feel safe coming to a stop, traffic lights, emergency situation, etc. Or if I had to stop suddenly and plant my feet to keep my balance. I wouldn't feel comfortable/confident with the crossbar right up against my stuff. I would be too concerned with either banging my nuts against the crossbar (!) or smashing into whatever it was I was trying to avoid hitting. Or losing your balance because of the too tall crossbar height and possibly falling over and looking like a dork in the process?

One person said that he has negative standover on his road bike, but was okay with it because he felt good while riding it. So he didn't seemed too concerned with the crossbar height?

I might feel comfortable riding a bike with a high crossbar, but not dismounting in a routine or emergency situation.

Thoughts/experiences?

ThermionicScott 

The proper name for the "crossbar" is "top tube", and smashing your nads on it is totally optional. If you mount and dismount your bike properly, you won't -- even with negligible standover clearance, even in an emergency.

You'll get the hang of it with experience.

fietsbob

You are certainly free to look for a little smaller frame size in the same Bike.

other dimensions go with the smaller size ... Factory frames are shorter top tube proportionally, as they are shorter seat Tube `Aka.."Size"
handle bars may not be as high..


Step through frames avoid the situation entirely..

sumbikerguy123

Hey thanks for your replies.

If you mount and dismount your bike properly, you won't -- even with negligible stand over clearance, even in an emergency.

R. There are times when you just can't help but slip or lose balance even temporally. Person might have a bad/fused ankle, sloping sidewalk ramp, crevices, accidentally plant your foot on a large piece of landscape wood chip, errant drivers suddenly blocking a pedestrian cross walk, etc. etc. At least these are some of my daily biking experiences. So no perfect world.
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Step through frames avoid the situation entirely..

R. Why do you say this?
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I got a bit confused recently when a bike tech told me that "you shouldn't determine your bike size based on your stand over height."

Yet I don't understand what the correlation is between the length of the Top Tube and the actual stand over height, when my nads are resting on the top tube?

I'm not determining bike fit based on the "stand over height" alone. Rather, I am determining just the stand over height based on the stand over height in the diagram. The rest of the bike may fit okay, but if the top tube is against my nads while standing, then I'm concerned. If I'm in a padded seat then that's okay.

I can understand the "Effective Top Tube" in reference to the distance between the seat tube and head tube/handlebars to determine if the stretch is too long or short. But I don't see what the correlation is between the "Effective Top Tube" length and the actual "Stand Over Height"?

Using the below diagram, the "Effective Top Tube" length for a small 15" sized bike is: 535mm = 21". The "Stand Over" height is: 722mm = 28.4". My inseam is 28.5". Based on these measurements and diagram the "Stand Over" measurement makes more sense to me in determining if the Top Tube is too tall or short, than does the "Effective Top Tube" length.






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GravelMN

I don't come to a full stop sitting on the saddle so the ability to rest a foot on the ground while seated is irrelevant. Your above assumption may be appropriate for beach cruisers but not necessarily true for all types of bikes. Seat height is determined in relationship to the crank and pedals, not your ability to rest one or both feet on the ground while seated.

gpburdell

For a motorcycle, sure. It's good to be able to flatfoot it.


On a bicycle, not so much. By the time you're you can put a foot on the ground you're either not getting proper leg extension at the bottom of the pedal travel or your pedal-to-ground clearance is getting awfully tight. (I'm assuming you're not shopping for a banana bike here)

ThermionicScott 

Yep, all those things can happen. But none of them have to result in smashing your nads on the top tube. Unless you really want to. It seems to be an obsession of yours.

Here, I'll lay it out in more detail: when you're starting from a stop, one foot should be on a pedal and your ass out of the saddle. You stand up on the pedal to lift yourself onto the saddle, put your foot on the other pedal and pedal away. When you're coming to a stop, put weight on one pedal to lift yourself out of the saddle, and get ready to put the other foot down. This can be done very quickly with practice, even in emergencies: https://sheldonbrown.com/starting.html

Newbies seem to have this visualization that in an emergency stop, they'll jump off the saddle and land on both feet, straddling the top tube. But that's not the safest or most effective way to stop! There's little control of the bike once you're not making contact with the pedals or saddle.

Absolutely not. That's what some parents do when their kids are still learning how to ride a bike and they're still scared of falling. For most grown-up cyclists, the proper saddle height is when pedalling with the heels on the pedals results in perfectly straight legs at the bottom of the pedal stroke. There should be no expectation of being able to put feet on the ground while stopped in the saddle, and you never need to.

sumbikerguy123

What is a banana bike?

MRT2

Even if you have a couple of inches clearance, if you crash this way, trying to stop by taking both feet off the pedals and putting them on the ground while your bike is moving and the bike is moving out of your control, your cojones are in serious jeopardy. Why? Because even at 6 mph, you will likely get your feet knocked out from under you and hit your cojones on the bar as you go down.

Carbonfiberboy 

I just went out and checked my current favorite ride. This bike has a traditional level top tube. Straddling the top tube with both feet flat on the ground, I have a little clearance. If I bend my knees just a little, I'm resting on the top tube. I don't think I'd like a bike that I couldn't do that with at all.

One buys a bike not by the standover height or by the seat tube length, but rather by the top tube length, or with a sloping top tube, by what is known as the effective top tube length (ETT). However it turns out, and not by accident, that for the vast majority of people the correct ETT will produce a reasonable standover height. Bike frames are designed that way, for people. If the bike shop is trying to sell you a bike that you can't stand over, maybe it has the wrong geometry for you.

The bike I reference above is actually sized too large for me by 2 cm, but it has the ETT I need so it works for me. The visible seatpost length is a little less than is fashionable, but I don't care.

sumbikerguy123

It seems to be an obsession of yours.

R. Not sure about your choice of the obsession word, but I am concerned about one of the most fragile parts of my body. But thanks for your misinterpretation of what you think is an obsession of mine, as opposed to a rightful concern.

Newbies seem to have this visualization that in an emergency stop, they'll jump off the saddle and land on both feet, straddling the top tube.

R. Newbies, funny guy. You got 10,000+ posts, means your entitled to classify people with a less number of posts as "Newbies"? Get over yourself. Another assumption on your part, whenever I stop I use whatever means necessary to stabilize myself. Whether it is grabbing a post, pole, or whatever, one or two feet on or off the peddles, or on or off the saddle, whatever way is most appropriate and safe given the circumstance.

My fault for adding that question in my post as it detracted from the gist of the post which was about fit geometry and the reason I deleted the question.

Also, once the proper seat height is determined and your sitting on the bike, you should be able to put one foot on the ground for proper balance when stopped, agree/disagree?

Absolutely not. That's what some parents do when their kids are still learning how to ride a bike and they're still scared of falling.

R. Again, funny guy?

For most grown-up cyclists, the proper saddle height is when pedalling (pedaling) with the heels on the pedals results in perfectly straight legs at the bottom of the pedal stroke. There should be no expectation of being able to put feet on the ground while stopped in the saddle, and you never need to.

R. Unless you're riding around town on a hybrid with a lot of stop and go and decide to put one foot down for stabilization is personal choice of the rider. Or you just have long legs.

sumbikerguy123

R. Thanks, there is no fun way to crash a bike, no one wins. If one crashes as you say every part of your body is in serious jeopardy.

The parts you Bolded were comments of another posters assumption about what he assumed I was thinking, saying, talking about, etc.

My OP was more about fit geometry than balancing oneself with one foot while stopped. As I was trying to understand fit geometry ETT, HTL, stand over height, etc. to buy a new bike that's all. Thanks.

sumbikerguy123

Thanks.

Igualmente

You mention having a 28.5" inseam. Is that a pants inseam, or a cycling inseam? My pants inseam can be 1.5+ inches shorter than my cycling inseam. So, if a bike had a 32" standover, that would be roughly the same as my pants inseam, but would not be anywhere near an issue for me because my cycling inseam is closer to 34". Have you tried the bike with the 28.4" standover?

Can't say that I would worry about having little or no standover height. Having ridden more and less for decades, I've never had an injury in that way (plenty of other injuries though!). The closest I've come is landing a thigh hard against a stem/top of fork and that took some particularly dumb behaviour on my part and was on a bike where I had plenty of standover clearance.

Part of the reason I don't think I've had much issue is that I tend to land on my toes first (not flat footed), and/or that I tend to land off to the side (so I'd hit off centre on one thigh or the other and with the bike leaning). The number of situations where one is out of control and lands with both feet equidistant from a perfectly upright top tube seems small to me. Accidents come in all shapes and sizes, and I think one is far more likely to be hurt in other ways. In addition, there are probably accident scenarios where one can be injured landing on a top tube even though there is plenty of standover.

Also, for people who ride moderate or long distances, a lot of other fit issues are critical (eg is the saddle height and setback right, is reach to the handlebars right) because these will be part of the daily experience and having them wrong is likely to cause serious pain and long term injuries. On the other hand, a potential accident injury due to high standover height is just that: potential, of uncertain likelihood.

That said, since it is a concern, in this era of compact geometry bike frames there ought to be a fair number of bikes to choose from with standover clearance for you. I suppose a person with very proportionally short legs might face some challenges.

Last note: when I am seated on the saddle, I can barely put a toe on the ground (just). I can't put a foot down flat while seated. I don't find this to be an issue around town, but your experience could be different.

limbot

5' 7" here with a very short inseam. If I based my bike choice on standover alone I'd be riding a kids bike. Irrelevant measurement.

ThermionicScott 

Buy whatever bike gives you the most peace of mind, then. I don't personally care how you mount or dismount a bike, but you did ask whether we worried about smashing our nuts on our bikes, and I answered.

sumbikerguy123

Have you tried the bike with the 28.4" standover?

R. No, but that standover would work for me.

I remeasured my standover height after my initial post using a level against a wall and I got 29.5".

Part of the reason I don't think I've had much issue is that I tend to land on my toes first (not flat footed), and/or that I tend to land off to the side (so I'd hit off centre on one thigh or the other and with the bike leaning).

R. I normally do the same landing/balancing on my toes while stopped or just get off the bike. Or off to the side leaning as you say. The reference I made to standing over the crossbar with both feet flat on the ground/floor in my OP would be like straddling a new bike in a bike shop or if you got a new bike delivered to your home. If the bikes standover is 30.5" and you have a 29.5" max standover, I don't know about others, but I would move on.

For people who ride moderate or long distances, a lot of other fit issues are critical (eg is the saddle height and setback right, is reach to the handlebars right) because these will be part of the daily experience and having them wrong is likely to cause serious pain and long term injuries.

R. These fit issues was what I was looking for help with, but got sidetracked with how to ride a bike?

I suppose a person with very proportionally short legs might face some challenges.

R. This is a reality for small/xsmall/xxsmall sizes. It is harder to find a small sized bike than a medium bike, new or used.

Last note: when I am seated on the saddle, I can barely put a toe on the ground (just). I can't put a foot down flat while seated.

R. Same here, if its a long light I just get off the bike, drink water, stretch out, pick up nails, drywall screws, etc. Neither can I put a foot down flat while seated, toe tips yes. I don't find this to be an issue either around town, just part of the biking experience.

Thanks.

sumbikerguy123

R. Irrelevant measurement to you. Not to me. I don't base my bike choice on standover alone, but one of the several measurements to consider when buying a new bike.

Thanks, anyway.

79pmooney

I never have issues with top tubes and wouldn't even if I did not have clearance. However, many years ago, I hit an opening car door. Slip forward and hot both thighs on my bar ends, (Got two deep, perfectly circular 1" bruises.) After hitting the bars, I rotated around and ended up standing on both feet in the road. I do not remember if I was still straddling the bike or I swung off it. (This was nearly 50 years ago and that detail wasn't important even then.) (If I was still straddling the bike, the pain of a top tube I didn't clear would have been far worse than the deep bruises I got and would have stayed the most remembered fact of that incident.)

If the OP chooses to buy and ride a bike with a top tube he cannot clear, he better plan not to have any "incidents". I find I do better if I plan so that those incidents don't cost me unacceptably than if I plan never to have one. Those incidents never seem to adhere to my planning.

Ben

sumbikerguy123

Buy whatever bike gives you the most peace of mind, then. I don't personally care how you mount or dismount a bike, but you did ask whether we worried about smashing our nuts on our bikes, and I answered.

R. Thanks I plan to. Based on your posts I think you did personally care how I should ride, mount and dismount my bike. I like the way you twist words around to justify your posts. You say "I asked whether WE were worried about smashing our nuts on our bikes?" I don't think so. My post was as follows:

"If you were in the market for a new bike and stood over the cross bar with both feet flat on the ground. (In a bike shop straddling a new bike). And the crossbar was pushed up against your nads, would you feel okay with that or would you walk away and look for a smaller sized bike frame?

The words "smashing your nuts", were yours, not mine. I was concerned about new bike fitting, which is the subject name of this particular forum. I thought I could get help in that area. But apparently you have no bike fitting answers to give, so thanks anyway. Thanks for the bike riding tips though, much appreciated. So one foot goes on this pedal and then you push off, then.....

79pmooney

No! There should be some bend at the bottom of the pedal stroke! Look at the riders in the Tour de France going on right now. Are saying that all 160 of them have their seats too low?

I won't argue with the rest of your post, but that is just wrong.

Ben

ThermionicScott 

I very clearly said "with the heels on the pedals", as used for setup. Yes, there should be some knee bend at the bottom of the pedal stroke when riding normally.

ThermionicScott 

When you said "you", what else could you have possibly meant than other members of this forum?

My bad. Your words were "banging my nuts against the crossbar (!)"

Anyways, having your nuts in gentle contact with the top tube while straddling it is meaningless for fitting, too. (Some of my bikes do this, if you're curious.)

The only thing that matters is how the bike feels while riding. Hope you and your nuts have a long, happy bike riding career together.

sumbikerguy123

If the OP chooses to buy and ride a bike with a top tube he cannot clear,

R. Ben, thanks for replying. If I couldn't clear the TT and feel reasonably comfortable, I would just walk away from it and look elsewhere.

Pretty cool though that you landed on two feet, like a cat. At least you can say you landed on "both feet flat footed".

momo608

if your heel is on the pedal and your leg is perfectly straight at the bottom of the pedal stroke, your leg will have a slight bend in it at the knee when you put the ball of your foot on the pedal on the bottom stroke. That is unless of course your foot is freakishly small. Do you ride your bike with your heels on the pedals?