NoPhart

Shimano STePS Di2 already has what is basically the equivalent of a “paddle/button shift” eBike, but uses a traditional cassette or internally geared rear hub. Why not combine something like the Domahidy Pinion Gear Box with an electric mid-drive system and get the transmission off the rear hub putting that weight at the low center of the eBike?

Companies like Yamaha and KTM have vast experience in motorcycle transmission design. They both have entered the eBike game with their respective mid-drive systems. It really doesn’t seem like that far of a leap for companies like Shimano, Yamaha or KTM to rock the eBike world with an electric mid-drive system with transmission built in.

Is anyone currently working on this?

350htrr

There's the Schlumpf planetary drive but it's only a 2 speed...

AnthonyG

This may just be a solution looking for a problem. Lots of things COULD be done. The question is. Is the cost of implementation justified by the benefit.

Anthony

Leisesturm

Build it and they will come. All other things being equal. And they aren't. As long as cars and car like electric vehicles are the Gold Standard for transportation then bike companies will not throw real sophistication at bicycles. But they could, like the o.p. noted.

tds101 

I'm seeing that mid drive bikes are slowly starting to trickle out, and they're being well received. Eventually, when the prices lower a bit more (they've been coming out at lower price points recently), they just might catch on. It's all about supply & demand. If the public shows more interest in mid drive bikes, the market will open up. I'm in favor of it occurring.

But, I'm personally in FAVOR of the IGH rear hub bikes, as I find the weight to to rear of the bike minimal at best. All shifting doesn't need (IMO, YMMV) to be situated in the centerline of the bike. There are uses for it, such as mountain biking, maybe competition, etc, but for the average cyclist it's unnecessary. It might be cosmetically more appealing, but for most, overkill.

NoPhart

I agree! I also agree something like a Rohloff IGH at the rear really wouldn't add that much weight to an "eBike" at the rear. If I had a deep pocket full of ca$h burning a hole, I'd put a Rohloff on any mid-drive I was riding and call it good.

spinningmagnets

I believe the type of gear system you are asking about is similar to the Pinion drive. It is an IGH that is built into the bottom bracket. It makes a mid drive kit nearly impossible to mount, but I suppose it could be used with a rear hubmotor kit. (Which would defeat the purpose, just sayin')

I have also seen several examples of a Nexus IGH used as a jackshaft, so the rear wheel only needs one sprocket.

https://pinion.eu/en/products/

spectastic

ebikes is still a niche market. most people who are into ebikes do it to get from a to b. from my sales experience, many customers want the throttle, which I believe you can only get with the hub motors.

dilkes

Not so. The Bafang mid-drives (and perhaps others?) have both PAS and throttle control.

Arcanum

Setting aside the issue of it seemingly being a solution in search of a problem:

It would increase the size of the mid-drive unit, making mounting and chain alignment more difficult. It would make the unit more complex, so it would be more expensive and harder to repair. You'd have more small, complex bits in a location that, in the case of mountain bikes, is more likely to be abused. You'd lose virtually all of the performance customizability that is currently available with mid-drives.

sunrisejack

Hi, My Flevobike Green Machine has a mid drive internal hub (rohloff) and with the electric assist motor located in the same position (not the bottom bracket) I have nothing on either wheel. A true mid-drive in the drive train. Behaves like a "normal" mid-drive and I have a simple short chain running a solo sprocket from the mid-drive to the rear hub. The entire system is enclosed and all power transfers have perfect chainline. Works great.

awm72

There is NuVinci hubs too. There is even an automatic shifter. Then all we'll need is a windshield, wiperblades and we're close to a car. I was never fond of mechanicals on a bicycle, There is an adjustment needs to be made. All I want is to ride.

nimbuzz

I agree = Rohloff rocks if you can afford it--had one for 4 years with mid drive Optibike 1100R

Ray_R

Pinion had started development on such a transmission/motor. Here's a link:
https://www.electricbike.com/pinion/

It seems it never went into production.....yet.

NoPhart

Ray, that truly is E-bike porn! They apparently attempted it back in 2012, but has anyone ever seen one in production? I wonder what problems they ran into to halt the project? Those gears look pretty heavy and beefy.

Thanks for posting that.

slomoshun

I'm with you. A bicycle is the last bastion of transportation simplicity, but unfortunately we cannot refrain from messing it up with more and more mechanical and electronic complexity. Isn't it already easy enough to operate?

Technology keeps creating answers to questions either not asked or of no real value. Just because we can doesn't mean we should. K.I.S.S.